You should also check out Rick Beato’s other videos. He has a fun, pretty technical channel with a LOT of information, and goes into some pretty interesting scales and modes I had never heard of before, like the double harmonic major (which I sort of know from Middle Eastern music) and all its derived modes.
Because they color the ensemble?
The pitches are the vehicle for the melody, which is the song. The timbre, tempo, instrumentation are all “coloring.” (roughly speaking) But the melody isn’t, it’s the thing being colored. It can’t be varied without losing it’s identity (roughly speaking). Is that ineffable? It can be transposed, perfectly, while the other factors aren’t fixed that way.
What interval would be audible to listener X? Hard to say. Everyone here knows pitches are distinguishable. But they don’t distinguish themselves practically from each other without a context of music that we understand mainly through key centers. I think the rest is woo. The key center can be placed at any number of cycles per second, whole, rational or irrational. That means that one key equals another in all respects except that one number. I don’t think it matters whether you can identify that number by ear.
It’s interesting. We expect Billy Joel and his band to be able to change keys on his songs (Although there was a mighty sigh of worry about it here) I expect him to anyway.
But do we think that the songs changed moods because of this?
Biffster: Are you asking for a definition of “woo”?
Pulykamell: Thanks — look forward to it!
Drad dog: EXACTLY. Again, so well put.
OK, then it sounds like you have something that is similar to, but not quite, perfect pitch. So you’re right in your appraisal of your abilities–a good memory for pitch. I’m wondering why if the colors are so clear and different between the notes, you sometimes get them wrong.
If you want real woo, just google the A432 pitch standard. There are some real woo ideas with the proponents of that tuning standard.
My experience is that I can make a guess at a key, keeping the song in my head, but after a couple strums I am gone and can’t evaluate well. I’m already in the song, which just trumps everything. I’m trying to figure out why I don’t have a cognitive dissonance playing beatles songs all in A. I imagine their voices harmonizing with me, though, at least I think I do.
You can work your way into believing chords are right when they’re not, same with a key. I would say that’s a function which argues against the personality of chords and more towards the personality of persons playing them.
Be very careful or you could wind up on my sig.
Not moods so much, but feel. They were the right songs but something sounded a little off about them. Because they were all off by exactly the same amount, it made sense that the whole band, including the grand piano, would have transposed accordingly. Billy prefers a real piano, and you need a double hammer effect on something like Angry Young Man/Prelude, so I believe the whole piano was tuned lower. I could be wrong.
An article from 2006 about Billy Joel and transposed songs.
Hard to believe a half or whole tone was so annoying to the reviewer. I’m def going to listen, and I wasn’t going to before.
It might be that he went down a whole register, and not a step. That’s happening to me now. I’m going lower. So with a pop star singing those chirpy ditties, when he has to change it’s going to be emotionally weird to hear it. Probably the best thing would be to rock it up good, and louder than the vocals.
Does anyone know what are the best mnemonic songs for tuning a guitar?
Actually I meant best songs to try and suss from memory too. I might have to avoid the beatles
Hmm… I just looked up one of the Piano Man songs and, I gotta say, yeah, it does sound different to me. This performance. Double checking with my keyboard, yeah, it’s in Bb and, yeah, you seem to be right. The piano itself is detuned. Watching his left hand during the descending chromatic bass line at the beginning, he’s hitting all white keys there. Interesting. I didn’t think they did that with pianos, at least not that far.
Upon doing some more research, it would appear Mr. Joel prefers to use a transposing 88 key synth housed inside a grand piano body. The top is closed, making it impossible to close mic the piano strings for instance, so his piano that he plays in the stadiums must be custom built. Still sounds pretty damn good to me! As for that double hammer thing? Lots of practice.
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2171418/3
Low E – Day Tripper
A – Get Back
D – We Can Work It Out
G – Blackbird
B – Hey Bulldog
High E – Please Please Me
Why avoid them when they’re so accessible? 
Sneaky!
Yes, or a hybrid piano, just as I said.
Wow, so you could tell the difference between what you’ve heard a million times and what it sounds like only a whole step lower? Imagine that.
Sometimes. Today, apparently, is a good pitch day for me. I really cannot do this with any consistency. I’ve heard “Do Wah Ditty” a millions times, too (huge oldies fan here), and I was off by a whole step there, so, shrug.
I know, but jeez, that’s all I was saying, and was the whole point of my Fur Elise example (which, by the way, was a step and a half down, even more than the “Piano Man” experiment). And you could tell the difference even though you malign your own pitch-naming abilities.
Put it this way, I’ve heard middle C or a C major scale a million times. This doesn’t mean I can identify middle C or a C major scale on demand. That’s the very definition of perfect pitch.