# Musing on hyphenated names **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 10, 2007, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662 "2007-02-10T22:25:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/41 "2007-02-13T04:59:33Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] Or O’Malley-Benedetti-Throatwobbler-Mangrove-Goldstein-von-Ostensacken… [/QUOTE] Would that be a distant cousin of Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-spelterwasser-kurstlich-himbleeisen-ahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwustle-gerspurten-mitz-weimache-luber-hundsfut-gumberaber-shönedanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm, perchance? ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/42 "2007-02-13T07:31:13Z")
[QUOTE=AHunter3] The logical thing to do is to have female children get the last name of their mother and male children to get the last name of their father. No more paternalism, entirely practical. [/QUOTE] Which is what I decided years before MrsB and I had the Hordling. I don’t think it’ll be confusing if and when we have a son, either. Heck, I have friends coming over next weekend, and in their family of four, they have four different last names. His Hers Daughter of first relationship with father’s last name Hyphen-kid Oh, by the by, here in Quebec there’s a law that limits surnames to one hyphen. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/43 "2007-02-13T08:20:25Z")
Hyphenated names have always struck me as strange. Jada Pinkett -Smith, ok, she was Jada Pinkett as an actress early on, she married Will Smith and decided to keep the notoriety of her maiden name for the sake of name recognition. I see the sense in that. Courtney Cox-Arquette (sp?), makes sense since most people knew her as Courtney Cox. People that need to keep their original last name in order to maintain notoriety as related to their field, are probably making a smart marketing decision. IMHO, people that decide to hyphenate their names, are halving any dignity that a surname has, and complicating things for the sake of vanity, or some other non-sensical reason. “Honey, I love you, but my last name comes first. Your last name can come in second place forever, plus there’s a hyphen. That shows that I care for you almost as much as my ancestors!” Not to worry though, I’m sure I’m the ONLY person that is annoyed by hyphenated names. Most people even prefer them I’ve heard. It makes reservations at restaurants much more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/44 "2007-02-13T08:22:30Z")
[QUOTE=Agonist] I humbly submit my Solution to the too-many-hyphenated-names problem. Of course, in order for it to work everyone has to adopt my Solution, over the course of generations. (I need to get my campaign going to change our family traditions.) Here it is: 1. Adam Smith marries Betty Jones. They both hyphenate their names to Smith-Jones. Their kids also have the last name Smith-Jones. 2. Cecil Smith-Jones marries Donna Jefferson-Parker. _(Here’s the clever part.)_ Cecil drops his mother’s name (Jones) and adopts his wife’s mother’s name (Parker) instead. Donna drops her father’s name and takes Cecil’s father’s name. The new couple is now Cecil and Donna Smith-Parker. 3. When Cecil and Donna’s kids get married, the boys keep Smith but drop Parker, while the girls keep Parker but drop Smith. And so on through the ages. The way it works, then, is that everyone has two last names: a paternal line and a maternal line. You don’t get to keep them all, but you honor the history of twice the number of family lines, and you don’t have the inherent sexism of a single paternal line or the silly-but-fair-to-everyone long names. Plus I just like the idea of honoring my mother’s mother’s mother’s family along with my father’s father’s father’s. So, whaddaya say? Wanna join the fight for sensible hyphens? 😃 [/QUOTE] Hell, except for point 1, you’ve just described the Hispanic way. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/45 "2007-02-13T08:28:35Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] The Spanish system works much like that. If Juan Gomez Trujillo marries Maria Martinez Fonseca, their children will be Jose and Carmen Gomez Martinez. If Carmen then marries Sr. Orosco, she becomes Carmen Orosco de Gomez, and their children have the surname set Orosco Gomez. In other words, the patronymic surname, the one carried on from father to son, is the _penultimate_ one, and appended to it is the matronymic one, betokening descent from the mother’s family, which is dropped in the next generation. But if famous paleontologists Richard and Maeve Leakey had had a daughter who married Col. Henry Fawcett, would she thereafter have been Ms. Leakey-Fawcett? [/QUOTE] Carmen Gómez Martínez (señora) de Orosco Whateverhissecondlastname is, or for short Carmen Gómez de Orosco. Otherwise her original name would get “split”. The Portuguese do the same, but with maternal lastname first. I have a Spanish friend whose husband is portuguese and they’ve had some problems with paperwork because of that… for some reason he’d been living in Spain and married to a Spaniard for 10 years and never thought of saying “oh, in Portugal the mother’s lastname goes first”; he’d just say “it’s like this”. Once he did, he started getting “oh, really?”, answered “yep” and all was kosher. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/46 "2007-02-13T09:55:00Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Would that be a distant cousin of Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-spelterwasser-kurstlich-himbleeisen-ahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwustle-gerspurten-mitz-weimache-luber-hundsfut-gumberaber-shönedanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm, perchance? [/QUOTE] No, but they are related to the Luxury Yachts, which is how they picked up that pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/47 "2007-02-13T10:02:50Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] Hell, except for point 1, you’ve just described the Hispanic way. [/QUOTE] Also in Latin America isn’t it mostly the European-descended upper classes that follow the Spanish model? For example, I recall that several presidents of Mexico seemed to have double names. IIRC those men didn’t actually use the hyphen but would be referred to sometimes as \ \ \ and then subsequently as just \. But Fox didn’t seem to use it, nor have I heard it being used by or in referenct to the current incumbent Calderon. ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/48 "2007-02-13T10:08:31Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] Léone Sextus Denys Oswolf Fraudati-filius Tollemache-Tollemache de Orellana Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache probably had a complex family tree. [/QUOTE] Not really. Just a very eccentric father - the Rev. Ralph Lyonel Tollemache. When he married his first wife, also a Tollemache, he adopted the double-barrelled surname Tollemache-Tollemache, which seems rather redundant. However, his children by his first wife had relatively ordinary given names (maybe his wife made sure of this). However, his Spanish second wife, Dora Cleopatra Maria Lorenza de Orellana y Revest, allowed him to call \*their \*children: Daughter 1: Mabel Helmingham Ethel Huntingtower Beatrice Blazonberrie Evangeline Vise de Lou de Orellana Plantagenet Toedmag Saxon Tollemache-Tollemache Daughter 2: Lyonesse Matilda Dora Ida Agnes Ernestine Curson Paulet Wilbraham Joyce Eugenie Bentley Saxonia Dysart Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache Son 1: Lyulph Ydwallo Odin Nestor Egbert Lyonel Toedmag Hugh Erchenwyne Saxon Esa Cromwell Orma Nevill Dysart Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache (his initials spell LYONEL THE SECOND) Daughter 3: Lyona Decima Veronica Esyth Undine Cyssa Hylda Rowena Viola Adela Thyra Ursula Ysabel Blanche Lelias Dysart Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache Son 2: Leo Quintus Tollemache-Tollemache de Orellana Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache (he got off lightest, but still got rid of most of his name by deed poll, becoming plain Leo de Orellana Tollemache) Daughter 4: Lyonella Fredegunda Cuthberga Ethelswytha Ideth Ysabwel Grace Monica de Orellana Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache Son 3: Leone Sextus Denys Oswulf Fraudati-filius Tollemache-Tollemache de Orellana Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache ( **Struan** ’s Army captain) Daughter 5: Lyonetta Edith Regina Valentine Myra Polwarth Avelina Philippa Violantha de Orellana Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache Son 4: Lyonulph Cospatrick Bruce Berkeley Jermyn Tullibardine Petersham de Orellana Dysart Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/49 "2007-02-13T10:22:10Z")
Bananas. :rolleyes: Although Lyonulph would be a great cat name. Me, I’ve toyed with not inflicting my long unwieldy Teutonic moniker on potential wifey/bubs, but either problem seems unlikely to arise at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/50 "2007-02-13T10:23:22Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] Also in Latin America isn’t it mostly the European-descended upper classes that follow the Spanish model? For example, I recall that several presidents of Mexico seemed to have double names. IIRC those men didn’t actually use the hyphen but would be referred to sometimes as \ \ \ and then subsequently as just \. But Fox didn’t seem to use it, nor have I heard it being used by or in referenct to the current incumbent Calderon. [/QUOTE] Everybody follows it (ok, not the jungle indians). It’s got to do with things like convenience and how common the name and lastnames are. One example: most Spaniards, if you ask them what’s the name of our current president, will say “Zapatero” (if they don’t blurt out “zetapé”, initials for Zapatero Presidente, which was the socialist slogan in that election). If you say “no, no, the full name”, then they may or may not remember that it’s “José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero”. With a first name so common and a first lastname that’s both common and a joke word unto itself\*, the second lastname becomes the “natural” one. Using both would be more “proper” but dang that’s long! Fox and Calderón are both uncommon and short, no need to bring additional information. My whole name has a structure like this one (it’s not this one): María de los Ángeles Sáenz de Riclos Heredia. Legally, I can use Mariángeles Sáenz de Riclos in most documents without anybody batting an eyelash; Marian Sáenz is also acceptable; many people know my brothers and myself as “the Sáenzes”, even though there’s other Sáenz (no “de Riclos”) in town… we happen to be the most prominent ones. The police doesn’t consider either one of the abreviations as an alias. The name has got to be in full in legal contracts, but that’s it. - A Rodríguez is a man who’s stayed behind in the city while the wife and kids go ahead to the apartment at the shore. It’s synonimous with “slob, can’t eat anything but beans off a can, tries to pick up chicks with all the style of a burnt tire.” ---
**Author:** ![Agonist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@Agonist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agonist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/51 "2007-02-13T14:52:33Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] Hell, except for point 1, you’ve just described the Hispanic way. [/QUOTE] I think there’s a distinction, actually. If I understand the examples given by yourself and Polycarp, the firstlastname secondlastname combo in the next generation is all patronymic: In Spain: Father’s Father’s name plus Mother’s Father’s name My version: Father’s Father’s name plus Mother’s Mother’s name So in the Hispanic way, the mother’s line is lost after a generation. Did I understand that right? ---
**Author:** ![According\_to\_Pliny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@According\_to\_Pliny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/According_to_Pliny)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/52 "2007-02-13T19:46:05Z")
This used to be a running gag in a magazine (the NewYorker?) where you would try to match up celebrities and then name their children. The one I recall best was If Mary K Sunshine married Gene Wilder, then their kid might be named **May K. Wilder-Sunshine** (say it out loud) ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662/53 "2007-02-13T20:01:29Z")
[QUOTE=According to Pliny] This used to be a running gag in a magazine (the NewYorker?) where you would try to match up celebrities and then name their children. The one I recall best was If Mary K Sunshine married Gene Wilder, then their kid might be named **May K. Wilder-Sunshine** (say it out loud) [/QUOTE] Gaither E. Rosebuds Wily May [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-on-hyphenated-names/391662.md?page=2)