# Musing: why do people think someone "chooses" to be gay (or straight)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 1, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880 "2019-04-01T19:04:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/101 "2019-04-08T19:39:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > How is learning to not act on ones homosexual desires any different from not acting upon ones desires to seek opposite sex relations outside the marriage? Because one requires (for people who are fully homosexual) _no romantic/sexual connection at all_, while the other includes a romantic/sexual connection (the person you’re already married to). > [@](#): > > Is me being married but still being turned on by other women and not being able to act on them any different than a man with homosexual feelings not acting on those? Am I lonely and depressed because I cant act out my desires? No I’m not. But it would be if I let it. Yes, it’s entirely different, because you are with your wife, who you are (presumably) attracted to and have a romantic connection with. That’s entirely different than suggesting that people who are 100% homosexual shouldn’t have any chance at a romantic and sexual connection with someone they are attracted to. > [@](#): > > Finally desires are like an appetite. If you feed on them thru pornography and such, they will only get stronger. If you remove those from your life the desires will lessen. This is just ridiculous. If I don’t eat, I get hungry. When I eat, my hunger is (temporarily) satiated. The same goes, in general, for libido, when it’s with someone I have a romantic connection and attraction to. At least in my experience (and every other human I’ve ever discussed sex and libido with). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/102 "2019-04-08T19:41:29Z")
The thing you should think about, **Urbanredneck** , is this: what if your attraction to women was considered sinful and disgusting, and the only acceptable romance and sexuality in your culture/society was to be with a man? Would there be any possibility that you could lead a happy and fulfilled life under that restriction? ---
**Author:** ![Doubticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Doubticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/103 "2019-04-08T19:44:00Z")
I’ve been a straight male all my life. I’ve been attracted to women as long as I can remember. I’ve never fantasied about having sex with a man. It came as quite a shock to me when one of my male friends stated that he though that everyone was a little gay and somewhere out in the world there is someone of your own sex you would be attracted to. That isn’t my experience. But he may be correct that the number of people who are bisexual or who have bisexual tendencies is much greater than we assume. I’ve always equated sexual orientation to tastes in food. I can’t stand the taste of liver, some people love it. It would be odd for me to “choose” to eat liver, it would be odd for someone who love’s it to avoid it. The point is that everyone experiences the world around them differently, and it is the height of arrogance to assume that what works for you, works for them. Is sexuality a choice? Does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/104 "2019-04-08T20:04:09Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You assume that a persons homosexual desires are all they are, that they are 100% gay (not bi), and that can never be changed. > > You assume that they will be happy and find a fulfilling homosexual relationship. I’ve seen plenty of lonely gays and lesbians. > > You assume they cannot learn to love a member of the opposite sex. > > How is learning to not act on ones homosexual desires any different from not acting upon ones desires to seek opposite sex relations outside the marriage? > > Is me being married but still being turned on by other women and not being able to act on them any different than a man with homosexual feelings not acting on those? Am I lonely and depressed because I cant act out my desires? No I’m not. But it would be if I let it. > > Finally desires are like an appetite. If you feed on them thru pornography and such, they will only get stronger. If you remove those from your life the desires will lessen. a) All of the above arguments could be made about heterosexuality (reversing the polarity of the arguments where necessary). b) I could definitely make a genuine, non-satirical case for heterosexuality being sinful, being a social wrong. c) having said all that, I’ll also say that people having a kneejerk reaction to the embrace of “choice” by folks who want to ban or condemn gay and lesbian sexual behaviors, by emphatically claiming that it’s _not_ a choice, really need to read **Annie-Xmas** and other people who’ve made a similar point, and think about the perspective they’re espousing. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/105 "2019-04-08T20:20:51Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You assume that a persons homosexual desires are all they are, that they are 100% gay (not bi), and that can never be changed. Well, you know, fine folks like yourself have tried _literally torturing_ gay people until they turn straight, and it turns out it doesn’t work. So, that’s a pretty strong argument that, for the majority of people, orientation is not mutable. > [@](#): > > Is me being married but still being turned on by other women and not being able to act on them any different than a man with homosexual feelings not acting on those? Am I lonely and depressed because I cant act out my desires? No I’m not. But it would be if I let it. Yes, it is, in fact, completely different. For one thing - and this absolutely cannot be repeated enough - being gay doesn’t harm anyone. Before you got married, you at least had a shot at being in a loving relationship. Unmarried gay people, under your moral system, are not allowed that option at all - they only get to be lonely. And, of course, if your relationship with your wife breaks down, you have the option of divorce and re-marriage. So, really, these are two entirely dissimilar situations. As should have been obvious to anyone who spent at least thirty seconds thinking about it. > [@](#): > > Finally desires are like an appetite. If you feed on them thru pornography and such, they will only get stronger. If you remove those from your life the desires will lessen. And in the field of things I did not expect to have to explain to someone today, we have this entry: Pornography doesn’t turn people gay. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/106 "2019-04-08T20:42:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The thing you should think about, **Urbanredneck** , is this: what if your attraction to women was considered sinful and disgusting, and the only acceptable romance and sexuality in your culture/society was to be with a man? Would there be any possibility that you could lead a happy and fulfilled life under that restriction? What kind of response do you think I should give you? Which do you want me to have? 1. Oh yeah. I never thought of it that way. 2. No, that is impossible. 3. I guess I’d just be lonely. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/107 "2019-04-08T20:48:36Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You assume that they will be happy and find a fulfilling homosexual relationship. I’ve seen plenty of lonely gays and lesbians. There are plenty of lonely heterosexuals out there. In fact, there are communities of men who have such poor luck with women that they have basically sworn off trying to have a relationship with them (e.g. MGTOW). Those men seem pretty unhappy with the results of trying to have a heterosexual relationship. Maybe they should consider a homosexual one. They could turn to someone else in their community who is also single and lonely and perhaps find happiness with a same-sex relationship that they couldn’t find with an opposite-sex one. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/108 "2019-04-08T23:06:20Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What kind of response do you think I should give you? Which do you want me to have? > > 1. Oh yeah. I never thought of it that way. > > 2. No, that is impossible. > > 3. I guess I’d just be lonely. What’s your honest answer? That’s the answer I want, even if it’s 4. I don’t care about gay people. If your wife was a closeted lesbian, and every time when she’s been with you, she’s been miserable and unfulfilled, is that fair to her? Is it fair to you? Wouldn’t you want her to be happy? ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/109 "2019-04-08T23:32:28Z")
heres something to think about that was brought up in the MMP : > [@Sneezing All Over The MMP](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneezing-all-over-the-mmp/832208/14): > > Patches is fixed, luckily. We kept her inside 24/7 until she was so we wouldn’t have to worry. And she doesn’t seem to be a wanderer, so far she sticks pretty close to home. But she has lots of room to roam right here, so that helps, I think. 🙂 > > Have to get signed up for food stamps today cos my dad keeps hassling me for money. He seems to think I should be paying something for room and rent and food and stuff. 😃 Not sure where he got such a crazy idea from. 😃 😃 At least they quit charging me the gay tax when I quit being gay and became straight again. When swapbear asked what she means by gay tax heres the response : > [@Sneezing All Over The MMP](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneezing-all-over-the-mmp/832208/19): > > _teehee_ I like Scribe, too. And cools on being gay. I’m an asexual lesbian, but since I don’t want to have any lesbian sex I can technically count as straight as far as the folks are concerned, since nuance and the spectrum are kinda lost on them. > > The gay tax was back during the great gay scare of 2011. I was working part time at Kmart, so was already paying regular rent. I was just deconverting myself from all my childhood indoctrination and brainwashing. Lesbians had always attracted me. I’d always thought they were cool and had always wanted way more from my female friends than they wanted from me. I wanted one female friend to love me forever and always, more than she loved anyone else and to be my best friend and live with me forever. But sadly as I got older all they wanted to do was talk about boys. Sooo boring. I even told a few people that if I wasn’t a Christian and didn’t know that being gay was wrong that I’d be a lesbian. I’d always get very strange looks when I said that. 😃 😃 > > But then as the brainwashing was slowly leeching out of me and the internet saved me and showed me what the rest of the world was like, I met a cool girl who lived overseas, and we had a wonderful 3-month cyber affair, where we pretty much lived on Skype talking to each other all the time. It was super fun, and I proposed to her, and she accepted, and we had all these grand and glorious plans of me moving to be with her and raising her daughter together and living happily ever after. It was a beautiful dream. Totally unrealistic, but it was basically the height of my existence. > > Anywho, during this time I tried to use my dad’s computer to print out a fiance visa form, but it came out with ink blotches all over it, and like an idiot I didn’t think anyone could read it, so I threw it away in my dad’s trash can. Then one day my dad found it and told mom, then she went through my room and found a card SHE had sent me that said yes, she’d marry me. > > So then Mom comes and picks me up from work, cos I don’t drive, really bad eyesight and attention issues. And she’s all really quiet and like won’t look at me, but she did stop at Burger King like I asked, so I could get lunch. I wasn’t really sure what was up with her, but sometimes mom gets in mood sometimes, and I was really hyper and cheerful for some reason that day. > > So then we get home and we go into the house and Mom is all, “sit down.” So I sat down and she asks if me and SHE are just friends or something more. And I say we’re just friends. And then she’s like, “Liar,” and pulls out the card she got from my room. And I really don’t know how to lie. I’m pretty bad at it, and I’d been having a really hard for a while, living a lie, trying to keep secrets, worrying about what would happen if they found out, and how they’d hate me, cos mom already said they would want nothing to do with me, if I was gay. And I’d just been really struggling with that, so I just said that I loved HER. > > Then I went back up to my room and waited for the boom to fall. Dad finally came home and said I had to leave since gay people couldn’t live with them, of course, but he knew that I only had a part time job and couldn’t afford to live anywhere else, so they weren’t kicking me out to the street, I could stay until I found somewhere else. So they weren’t like super mean about it. Mostly, I don’t think they wanted me to leave they just wanted me to stop being gay. > > So then I tried really hard to find a second job or a new full time job. Dad changed the wifi password so I couldn’t talk to HER anymore, so I would just go to Burger King every day after work and use their Wifi to try and find work and talk to HER. I applied everywhere, but no one was hiring. And all the money I’d been saving to go and be with HER kept dwindling down smaller and smaller cos I had to pay for lunch every day to be able to use the Wifi. > > Plus, I had to pay the gay tax while I continued to live with them, which was just an extra $100 a month on top of regular rent. > > I tried to stay away from the house as much as I could cos mom got the bright idea to go through the Bible and find all the “gay people are evil verses” she could find, or just general verses about sin, and she printed them out and taped them to my bedroom wall over my bed, my door, on the wall going up the stairs to my room, and on my bathroom mirror. And then she’d turn up Christian music really loudly in the next room. _teeeheee_ > > Dad ignored me after that, wouldn’t talk to me, look at me, or anything. And for a while mom wouldn’t look talk to me, either, but then she started lecturing and witnessing at me instead. I definitely preferred it when she wasn’t talking to me. 😃 > > The best part about the great gay scare of 2011 was when I wasn’t allowed to go to church. That part was pretty fabulous. I just was too wicked and evil to darken the doors of his church. But then dad felt like I was having too much fun so mom started taking me around to other people’s churches on Sunday mornings. We visited quite a few in the area, which was sort of funnish. > > Eventually though, I ran out of money, and had no job prospects, so I just told them that Her and I broke up and that I wasn’t gay anymore, and things went back to normal. Dad gave me the wifi password, and I got to start going to church again. Yaays? > > A little later SHE broke up with me, for real, and I discovered asexuality, and lesbian romance, and I continued to grow and develop in one respect while shrinking and diminishing in others. But the important thing I guess is that no gay sex will I be having. Hope that answers your question **swampbear**! 😃 I refrained from comment because I don’t think you can turn it off and on like that I wanted to say unkind things about the parentage ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/110 "2019-04-08T23:44:31Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What kind of response do you think I should give you? Which do you want me to have? > > 1. Oh yeah. I never thought of it that way. > > 2. No, that is impossible. > > 3. I guess I’d just be lonely. I was hoping for an honest and thoughtful answer. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/111 "2019-04-09T00:15:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I was hoping for an honest and thoughtful answer. As Meatloaf told us all those years ago, “One Out of Two Ain’t Bad.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/112 "2019-04-09T00:23:15Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > As Meatloaf told us all those years ago, “One Out of Two Ain’t Bad.” A long time ago the tag line of a cigarette ad was “what do you want, good grammar or good taste.” (The cigarette’s slogan was ungrammatical.) David Steinberg, the comedian, had a special where a character said this. He asked “Couldn’t we have both.” The response was “On Madison Avenue, you’re lucky if you get either.” I wish we were lucky here. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/113 "2019-04-09T00:34:48Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You assume that a persons homosexual desires are all they are, that they are 100% gay (not bi), and that can never be changed. I’m pretty close to being 100% on the straight side of the spectrum. Being that, I can understand someone being 100% on the gay side. If you are like me, why don’t you understand that just like you wouldn’t want to change, someone on the other end wouldn’t want to change either. Why should they? > [@](#): > > You assume they cannot learn to love a member of the opposite sex. Could you learn to love a man like you love your wife? > [@](#): > > How is learning to not act on ones homosexual desires any different from not acting upon ones desires to seek opposite sex relations outside the marriage? Charles Beaumont had a story called “The Crooked Man” set in a world where gayness was normal and heterosexuality was considered deviant. If you lived in such a world, and felt forced to marry a man because society and your church told you to, but still had the preference you have now, would you be happy? > [@](#): > > Is me being married but still being turned on by other women and not being able to act on them any different than a man with homosexual feelings not acting on those? Am I lonely and depressed because I cant act out my desires? No I’m not. But it would be if I let it. If your wife was totally uninterested in sex you might feel differently. > [@](#): > > Finally desires are like an appetite. If you feed on them thru pornography and such, they will only get stronger. If you remove those from your life the desires will lessen. Bull. It is not like there were no super strong sexual desires before porn became as available as it is today. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/114 "2019-04-09T00:47:15Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > …If your wife was totally uninterested in sex you might feel differently… Maybe not, he seems to be fine with a wife who is a lesbian as long as she never acts on her desires and “learns” to be a heterosexual, so her lack of sexual fulfillment isn’t really something he seems to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/115 "2019-04-09T01:21:37Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > heres something to think about that was brought up in the MMP : > > When swapbear asked what she means by gay tax heres the response : > I refrained from comment because I don’t think you can turn it off and on like that I wanted to say unkind things about the parentage That is a sad saga of a troubled/confused young lady and thick/insensitive parents. I have had “girl crushes,” where I was obsessed with another girl and wanted that forever closeness that **swapbear** talks about. I say “girl” because I was in college (a women’s college BTW). However, sexual desire was not in the picture. I didn’t want to kiss any of these girls or get naked with them. It was more like charged connection with a twin or perfect mirror of oneself, someone who really understood you and would take away the existential aloneness. Were those lesbian inclinations of mine? I don’t know. I’ve read that physical sex sometimes takes a backseat in lesbian relationships because there’s not the testosterone present that drives sexual behavior (whereas in gay male relationships, there is testosterone X 2). Did I just lob a grenade into this discussion? I wonder. > [@Voyager](#): > > I’m pretty close to being 100% on the straight side of the spectrum. Being that, I can understand someone being 100% on the gay side. If you are like me, why don’t you understand that just like you wouldn’t want to change, someone on the other end wouldn’t want to change either. Why should they? > > Could you learn to love a man like you love your wife? > > Charles Beaumont had a story called “The Crooked Man” set in a world where gayness was normal and heterosexuality was considered deviant. If you lived in such a world, and felt forced to marry a man because society and your church told you to, but still had the preference you have now, would you be happy? > > If your wife was totally uninterested in sex you might feel differently. > > Bull. It is not like there were no super strong sexual desires before porn became as available as it is today. Regarding these comments of yours to **Urbanredneck** , I’ll pose to you the same questions he posed to me: > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > To the OP: What kind of an answer are you wanting? Do you really want something different from your own belief? Ex. do you want someone to change your mind? Or do you want people to just affirm what you already believe? It seems pointless to me to try to convince him, but YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/116 "2019-04-09T02:40:15Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Regarding these comments of yours to **Urbanredneck** , I’ll pose to you the same questions he posed to me:It seems pointless to me to try to convince him, but YMMV. Not convincing - more placing oneself in the shoes of another. So it is less “what if you were gay” and more “how would it feel if someone had as intense feelings as you but in the other direction.” That’s what the Beaumont story is all about. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/117 "2019-04-09T05:05:45Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s always been one of my arguments- basically pointing out that considering the prejudice, discrimination and hate that gay people face, why WOULD anyone deliberately choose to be gay, and in particular openly gay, unless that’s the way they were made? I once had a friend whose answer was something like, “They’re just trying to be contrary and rebelling for the sake of rebellion.” My counter argument of, “that still doesn’t make any sense,” failed to convince him. FWIW, this was also a guy who, while drinking hard liquor, claimed that smoking pot was a sin. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/118 "2019-04-09T12:01:06Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Regarding these comments of yours to **Urbanredneck** , I’ll pose to you the same questions he posed to me:It seems pointless to me to try to convince him, but YMMV. The point of this was the OP wanted opinions and I gave her mine. It wasnt to start an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/119 "2019-04-09T12:03:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, you know, fine folks like yourself have tried _literally torturing_ gay people until they turn straight, and it turns out it doesn’t work. So, that’s a pretty strong argument that, for the majority of people, orientation is not mutable. > > . I just want to say something about this. This was wrong. Nobody is changed thru hate. But love can. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880/120 "2019-04-09T12:36:06Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I just want to say something about this. This was wrong. Nobody is changed thru hate. But love can. Could “love” change you from being attracted to women to being attracted to men? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musing-why-do-people-think-someone-chooses-to-be-gay-or-straight/831880.md?page=5)