And if we do try to offend someone then they, predictably, get offended. I think the best course to follow is probably somewhere between those two options.
I agree that the whole thing is ridiculous, but isn’t trying to teach about a religion by blaspheming it a little… er… insensitive? Unwise? Idiotic?
With the caption:
Are you sure? Doesn’t sound very bridge-building to me.
Thanks for that link Rune. So they do know the meaning of cartoons, huh.
And it’s alright to ‘insult’ everyone else, but just don’t make a drawing of the precious prophet.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali was not the only one who stood up for you, though.
EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson warned Saudi Arabia that the bloc would take action at the World Trade Organization if the government supported the boycott of Danish goods, the European Commission said.
Mandelson told a Saudi official that any Danish boycott would be a boycott of the European Union. “He made it clear that if the Saudi government had encouraged the boycott, Commissioner Mandelson would regret having to take the issue to the WTO,” said EU spokesman Peter Power
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=77089&d=31&m=1&y=2006&pix=kingdom.jpg&category=Kingdom
Canadafreepress says this about Hirsi Ali:
We have been critical (and still are) of the Dutch Somali-born politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali on account of her opposition to religion and religious people but Ms Hirsi Ali had a point yesterday when she said that the only way to confront the radicals is a free and open debate. Sadly, she says, there is no free and open debate “because of the complacency and self-censorship of Europe’s political and intellectual elites, the self-pity of the Muslims, and the threat of violence by the jihadists.” Indeed, it is the appeasement attitude and behaviour of the Europeans that is strenghtening the power of the extremists over the moderate Muslims
.
Hirsi Ali was speaking in The Hague where she received the “European of the Year Award” from our American friend (and former inhabitant of Brussels) Conrad Kiechel, the editor of the international editions of Readers’ Digest. The European commissioner Neelie Croes said in her speech that Hirsi Ali is sometimes criticised because of her confrontational approach. “If you believe in eternal life you can afford to be sophisticated. If you do not, you need rebels on this earth to bring about change. Ayaan is a rebel.” In our opinion the Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen would have been a better candidate for the European of the Year Award. He is not a rebel but a man of principles. Europe does not need rebellion to change things; all it needs is to stand by its principles in order to safeguard its civilization. [underlining mine, because I completely agree]
And there’s a muslim woman saying this:
Ms Eltahawy said: As just one example, last August Fadi Abdullatif, the spokesman for the Danish branch of the militant Hizb-ut-Tahrir organization, was charged with calling for the killing of members of the Danish government. […] Muslims must honestly examine why there is such a huge gap between the way we imagine Islam and our prophet, and the way both are seen by others. Our offended sensibilities must not be limited to the Danish newspaper or the cartoonist, but to those like Fadi Abdullatif whose actions should be regarded as just as offensive to Islam and to our reverence for the prophet. Otherwise, we are all responsible for those Danish cartoons
As for no-one else coming at your rescue; It’s election time here.
One million muslim votes are no chickenshite.
While our government is.
Chickenshite, I mean.
Also from European appeasement Reinforces Muslim Extremism
We need Muslims like Ms Eltahawy, who speak out against the extremists. We need Western journalists and politicians who support them by not allowing themselves to be intimidated by the extremists. But where are these journalists and politicians? None of his European colleagues has dared to publicly support Mr Rasmussen. On the contrary, both the European Union and the Council of Europe (as well as the United Nations) criticized Denmark over the cartoons. Only a handful of Europe’s papers and magazines has publicly supported a Danish newspaper’s decision to publish the cartoons. Most European mainstream media have not even dared to write about the case, leaving the European public in complete ignorance of a very important international conflict that has been going on for four months now.
I must say I was extremely dissapointed in Clinton.
What the hay?
I thought he was a left-winger, liberal or whatever you call it.
How can he possibly defend Islam?
It’s a very conservative and reactionary religion.
Anyone advocating Islam is a right-wing nutter, I’d say.
And about his Godwinizing: He’s got it the wrong way around.
Islamites are the ‘übermenschen’. We, unbelievers, are the untermenschen.
And just like the Nazi’s, Islam has an extra special treatment for the homosexuals and the Jewish.
I’m interested in buying more Danish products in my own counter-boycott. But aside from the butter cookies in the tins (which I’m not all that fond of), one brand (Foretta) of really awful sausage and pepperoni, and presumably a few gourmet cheeses, I’m drawing a blank. Can anyone recommend me a few good Danish products?
Oops, I should have mentioned that it doesn’t need to be limited to foodstuffs. It’s just that these were the only products that came to mind, sorry.
My sister went to Copenhagen and brought me a valnøddebrækker. That is just what it sounds like: a walnut breaker. For prying open walnut shells. A little gem of minimalist Scandinavian design: just a discoidal handle and a triangular blade.
I agree with you that we should expect people to get offended if we make cartoons that are offensive to them.
But why should we limit the content of our discussions based on the possible reaction of others?
Have you seen the cartoons by depicting Charles Darwin in the 1800’s? When I see those cartoons today, I have a negative emotional reaction, but I don’t think it should be off limits.
And the interesting thing is the boycott of the whole freaking country of Denmark. Yeah, if a newspaper publishes something you don’t like, boycott the newspaper. But the boycott isn’t against the newspaper, or the publisher…it’s against the whole country. The country’s crime? Not censoring the newspaper!
The requirement is that Denmark will be punished, and Danish citizens threatened with death, unless Denmark makes blasphemy against Islam a crime. And you thought the idea that Islamists wanted to establish Sharia law across the entire globe was hyperbole!
Here’s a link with Danish products: http://www.danish.com/
Don’t forget the real awesome electronic products of Bang & Olufsen. Beautifully designed TVs etc.
Rune, Our government might be to cowardly to support your right of free speech, the people of the Netherlands are behind the Danes.
This cartoon is being printed out and pasted onto our windows. The text under it:
‘Solidair met de Denen, stop de lange tenen.’ [Solidarity with the Danes, stop the easily offended]
If you know a little Dutch, on this site [a left-wing site] you can see how we feel about these latest ridiculous Islam actions.
http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/011866.html#comments
Or I might just point and laugh like mstay does.
Go Denmark, go Jyllands-Posten go Anders Fogh Rasmussen!
I feel sorry for the workers at Arla foods. 100 laid off as $480M of business lost in a couple of days.
by that I mean a business worth $480M annually.
[ul]
[li]I would imagine that it is hard for many in Arab countries to understand the concept of a truely free press. When the Arab media publishes vile cartoons of other groups it is usually with the States blessing or under its direction. [/li][li]Arab media publishing vile stereotypes is fine. The easily offended often have no qualms about being offensive. [/li][li]OTOH we are seeing more negative Arab stereotyping in the world’s media. This is not a positive development. Islamists do not adequately represent all Moslems. The rest of the world’s goal must be to foster an Islamic acceptance of tolerance of others’ views as a core value. We can best achieve that if we do it ourselves. [/li][/ul]
Stupid, yes, but I don’t see how the boycott (not the death threats) differs from Americans boycotting French goods at the time of the Iraq war. What have the makers of wine and cheese to do with the policies of Chirac?
Or to a lesser degree, gum’s sign, in which a dog is pissing on the flag of the nation of Saudi Arabia because of the politicians - unelected ones at that. It’s not quite flag burning, but it’s quite as childish.
Couldn’t agree more. Deliberate provocation seems counterproductive, though I support the right of the newspaper to do it.
I heard a story once that François-Marie Arouet Voltaire wrote a satirical play titled Mahomet; ou, Le fanatisme. I’ve heard it wasn’t actually anti-Islamic, but satirized a general human tendency. Perhaps Voltaire was influenced by the Lettres persanes of Montesquieu, with the conceit being to view and criticize European society from a near outsider’s point of view: the Middle East. Anyway, the version of the story I heard was that the Ottoman sultan took offense and threatened to declare jihad on its ally France unless they stopped producing the play. I’m not sure what the outcome was, or how factual the story is.
Originally posted by DSeid
I do not agree.
We see more negative Jew stereotyping in the world’s media.
Anti-semitism is on the rise, all over the world.
Thanks to the Arab influence.
The best solution is that Islam actually would be tolerant to the rest of the world.
The offices of the Jyllands-Posten has been cleared because of a bomb thread.
A religious clergy has pronounced a Fatwa over all Danish soldiers in Iraq.
All this over a couple of cartoons…
Fuck"em If They Can"t Take A Joke
T
gum, obviously from my first two bullet points, I am aware of the antisemitic vitriol emenating from the Arab world. But you are confusing actions of Arab leadership motivated by political ends with that motivated by Islam. Islam is no more intrinsically antisemetic than Christianity is. In point of fact Jews generally did less poorly in Islamic theocracies than in Christian ones or in the putatively secular world of the Soviet empire. No, the current bile is not originating from Islam itself but from the needs of oppressive Arab leaders to keep their populations distracted by their version of the ten-minute hate. Keep 'em busy hating Israel and blaming the Jews and maybe they’ll not realize how much their own leaders keep 'em down.
The solution to this horrific situation is not to vilify the religion that is being abused in the service of oppression, but to bring those societies into the communities of communities, and in so doing get them to accept those basic axioms of tolerance for other cultures and freedoms for their own citizens. Being intolerant ourselves serves not that goal. Islam is compatable with tolerance and with intellectualism; oppression is not.
I agree, at the time I thought this was pretty stupid. Basically the idea is to punish anyone that does not agree with our viewpoint, I don’t like that.
I generally agree with this, but you seem to place the blame on the oppressive govt.'s whereas it appears to me significantly due to culture in general. For the same reason that different cultures allow women differing amounts of freedom, it seems that reactions to slights to one’s religion differ in approach and ferocity.
I’m am somewhat perplexed at the tolerance extended towards extreme moslems in Europe by some posters on these boards when these very same posters might be extremely critical of Christian groups.
Let’s call a spade a spade, sometimes you must meet reactionary, medieval facists (be they Chrisitan or Islamic) with utter condemnation. Tolerance only goes so far and there are limits to how tolerant any society should be of those who fundamentally disagree with its way of life.