# Muslim Dopers in Western countries: Do you feel safe? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 14, 2015, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535 "2015-11-14T06:38:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/61 "2015-11-16T06:18:37Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There there were the Irish “troubles” which involved people identifying with two different Christian sects killing bystanders for decades. That’s not even remotely true, unless you consider a Padres/Angels World Series to be a religious war, or Cowboys/Redskins to be a race war. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/62 "2015-11-16T07:53:04Z")
As many as 3,600 people died, that’s a bit more violent than a series of sports games. One side identified as Catholic, the other Protestant, although it had as much to do with the Christian religion as the current bullshit has to do with Islam. It’s a self-identification, an excuse, and an obfuscation of real motives. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/63 "2015-11-16T08:21:03Z")
et voila, the thread answers itself, you can have your muslims evils conversation with yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/64 "2015-11-16T10:21:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There’s nothing to explain since people generally don’t get killed when someone draws a cartoon of the American flag. That’s not a very good analogy. I think it’s a very good analogy when those folks threaten to hurt or kill those who don’t display “the proper respect” for the flag. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/65 "2015-11-16T13:41:39Z")
Ramira, I too wanted to thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge of Islam with us. As a former Catholic from a Catholic majority country, I have had to educate myself on the basics of other religions and really appreciate the time you put into it. As a rabid atheist though, I am also disgusted by the bigotry some shamelessly reveal. Hate is hate. Hate is like a weapon in the hands of a blind man: You don’t know if it will be pointed at you next. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/66 "2015-11-16T14:23:00Z")
One more time. This thread is about whether Muslims living in Western countries feel safe. It is NOT a thread about people’s general opinions of Islam. Please, keep this thread on topic. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/67 "2015-11-16T16:01:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Because in my neighborhood a local restaurant owner, a man who had engaged in extensive fund raising for those injured by 9/11, and the families of those killed, who proudly displayed an American flag every day of the year, who had been a US citizen for 30 years and raised his family here, was gunned down in cold blood in 2002 for the “crime” of being a Muslim. Shot dead in his restaurant, in front of his family, by a bigot. Were there any newspaper reports of this incident? I Googled but wasn’t able to find anything. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/68 "2015-11-16T20:11:16Z")
Yes, several, but mostly local papers and it was from 9 years ago. It’s hardly inconceivable the local papers don’t have freely accessible archives going back that far. But it also helps if you know where exactly the crime occurred and the man’s name was Naseeb Mohammed. [Here is a link](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2006-09-11/news/0609110147_1_muslim-community-community-meeting-hate). While the police are unwilling to say it was a hate crime, lacking solid proof, they haven’t entirely ruled out the possibility. I tend to agree with the family, because an awful lot of money seems to have been left behind for a robbery. And because I’ve heard some very hateful and ignorant things from some of the general public. The murder has never been solved, and although it’s a cold case now it’s still technically open. The biggest problem is, apparently, there hasn’t been any further information or evidence to act on. Until someone is actually caught it’s a little hard to be certain what the motive might have been. Although admittedly I got one detail wrong - he wasn’t actually shot in front of his family, it was his family that found him. Well, sue me, it’s been 9 years and my memory isn’t perfect. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/69 "2015-11-16T20:26:31Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Although admittedly I got one detail wrong - he wasn’t actually shot in front of his family, it was his family that found him. Well, sue me, it’s been 9 years and my memory isn’t perfect. Your link says that his employees found him, not his family. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/70 "2015-11-16T21:55:39Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Hating the religion is not the same as hating the people who follow it. It is an important distinction to make. So its one of those, “Hate the sin, love the sinner,” sort of things? Because that was pretty transparent bullshit when bigots were using it to justify their treatment of gay people. I don’t see any reason to expect better when I see largely the same people using it to justify their treatment of Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/71 "2015-11-16T22:29:57Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I think it’s a very good analogy when those folks threaten to hurt or kill those who don’t display “the proper respect” for the flag. So, If I give you these two options: 1. I am going to threaten to kill you. 2. I am going to actually kill you. You wouldn’t be able to choose which option you’d prefer? If you can choose, then it’s not a good analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/72 "2015-11-16T22:52:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, If I give you these two options: > > 1. I am going to threaten to kill you. > 2. I am going to actually kill you. > > You wouldn’t be able to choose which option you’d prefer? If you can choose, then it’s not a good analogy. Yeah, like the person who’s being placed in fear of his life by a ranting and raving jackass already knows that the jackass putting him in fear of his life _isn’t_ going to actually kill him. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/73 "2015-11-16T23:38:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, If I give you these two options: > > 1. I am going to threaten to kill you. > 2. I am going to actually kill you. > > You wouldn’t be able to choose which option you’d prefer? If you can choose, then it’s not a good analogy. Both of those are threats that you are going to kill me. The first is really weird, since no one explicitly announces that they will make a threat, but it’s still a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/74 "2015-11-17T00:16:00Z")
Apparently it’s impossible to discuss anything related to Islam without it turning into the same old set of arguments about whether the religion is inherently violent and hateful. The OP asked a legitimate question, but most of this thread has been devoted to off-topic ranting. This has kept going on despite the fact that a mod has twice asked people to stay on-topic. I find it sad that a discussion board that is supposed to be devoted to fighting ignorance can be dominated by people whose thinking snaps into a rut when certain issues come up. If I ever want to derail a thread on any topic, I think I’ll just post the single word “Muslim,” then step back and watch the fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/75 "2015-11-17T00:29:01Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > The OP asked a legitimate question, but most of this thread has been devoted to off-topic ranting. This has kept going on despite the fact that a mod has twice asked people to stay on-topic. I find it sad that a discussion board that is supposed to be devoted to fighting ignorance can be dominated by people whose thinking snaps into a rut when certain issues come up. The OP specifically asked to hear from Muslim Dopers in western countries, but I don’t know that we have any western Muslim members here. I’m not sure if we even have any practicing Muslim members here at all. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/76 "2015-11-17T00:55:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, If I give you these two options: > > 1. I am going to threaten to kill you. > 2. I am going to actually kill you. > > You wouldn’t be able to choose which option you’d prefer? If you can choose, then it’s not a good analogy. You can take it a lot further than 1-2 above. How about: 1. I have actually killed, from 9/11 on, oh, probably a few 100,000 of you worldwide (including other Muslims, especially in Iraq and Syria). And help out here- has _anyone_ been killed for disrespecting the flag in our lifetimes? A single one? I was in college 1966-1971 when there was a lot of disrespecting going on, but no killings that I can recall. The analogy is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/77 "2015-11-17T06:37:18Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > The OP specifically asked to hear from Muslim Dopers in western countries, but I don’t know that we have any western Muslim members here. I’m not sure if we even have any practicing Muslim members here at all. I can think of at least three: **Ramira** , whose first language seems to be Arabic or French and who (if I am not wrong) lives in France, **A’isha** , who I think lives in the UK, **AK84** , who lives in Pakistan. I am sure there are other practicing Muslims in the board, but I cannot remember their handles. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/78 "2015-11-17T07:09:08Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > I can think of at least three: > > **Ramira** , whose first language seems to be Arabic or French and who (if I am not wrong) lives in France, > > **A’isha** , who I think lives in the UK, > > **AK84** , who lives in Pakistan. > > I am sure there are other practicing Muslims in the board, but I cannot remember their handles. Conspicuous by their absence? ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/79 "2015-11-17T07:40:47Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Conspicuous by their absence? I don’t know. I am not a big contributor to these boards, and I can spend weeks at a time without checking them (then I show up and follow them religiously for a couple of weeks in a row, before vanishing again). But I am certain that I have seen other posters (apart from the three I mentioned) who mentioned being Muslim. Whether they are posting or reading right now, that I do not know. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535/80 "2015-11-17T07:58:39Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Conspicuous by their absence? No. Just far more interesting things to do in my free time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-dopers-in-western-countries-do-you-feel-safe/737535.md?page=5)