# Muslim group targets poster nudity **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 23, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244 "2005-01-23T13:30:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Necro\_Romancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Necro\_Romancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necro_Romancer)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/21 "2005-01-23T23:28:10Z")
> [@gum](#): > > hehehehe **Necro Romancer** 🙂 > > btw, How’s your fear of cunnilingus? As strong as vagina centipedes are long. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/22 "2005-01-24T02:26:07Z")
I’m surprised no one has given the obligatory _John Ashcroft_ reference. In the Capitol there were some female statues (with exposed breasts) and he ordered those breasts to be covered by cloth. It’s funny about people’s moral sensibilities. Nude breasts are offensive - but Ashcroft’s using his “vital” civilian job (teaching law in Missouri), to get out of serving in the military _during the Vietnam War_ is totally ethical ??? Conversely, were these same Islamic censors equally outraged when planes were flown into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon? ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/23 "2005-01-24T06:28:16Z")
oh crap… The first adbusters banner (which you can get the html code for from their website) I see is on a muslims againsts advertising. Woo hoo! Don’t fight capitalism, fight titties! friggin’ a… Some people I just wish wouldn’t support some groups I like. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/24 "2005-01-24T06:29:43Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > Conversely, were these same Islamic censors equally outraged when planes were flown into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon? Maybe I’m being whooshed here, and if I am let me know… But most Muslims were outraged. Obviously I can’t speak for these guys in the story. But I gotta ask: What the hell does this have to do with _anything_ in this thread? I don’t agree with what these guys are doing to public property, but it’s ridiculous to try and automatically lump them in with the 9/11 terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/25 "2005-01-24T12:46:11Z")
I can kind of see their point. Poster nudity is not about sexuality. It is not about the human body. It is not about Art. It isn’t even about porn. So if you’re defending it on these grounds you are way off mark. It is about selling stuff. Plain, ordinary, grubby marketing. Buy this and look like/sleep with me So you don’t have to be a prude to find it objectionable and I can’t get too upset if some people get annoyed with it. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/26 "2005-01-24T12:57:30Z")
So, you’re saying that it’s okay if I buy a Pepsi to be more like MJ, but it’s not if I buy an Omega to be like/sleep with Cindy? Because that’s basically what marketing is all about. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/27 "2005-01-24T14:46:37Z")
> [@Happy Lendervedder](#): > > I don’t agree with what these guys are doing to public property, but it’s ridiculous to try and automatically lump them in with the 9/11 terrorists. Yes, but it might be effective politics (and, given Falwell and Robertson’s post-9/11 remarks, karma) to spread the meme that prudes are on the side of the terrorists… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/28 "2005-01-24T17:45:28Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > I can kind of see their point. Poster nudity is not about sexuality. It is not about the human body. It is not about Art. It isn’t even about porn. So if you’re defending it on these grounds you are way off mark. Art is in the eye of the beholder. This is just another group of people who have a problem with free expression. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/29 "2005-01-24T17:58:52Z")
> [@Necro Romancer](#): > > Because **gum** couldn’t have known that (s)he had to pit all fundamentalist religious painters! Except for the little issue that **gum** only _ever_ pits Muslims, so perhaps it’s a good thing to show that there can be arseholes of all creeds. (And these people are indeed arseholes.) ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/30 "2005-01-24T18:05:38Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Oh! Thank goodness! For a minute there I thought I was going to have to put clothes on while replying to threads on the Dope! 😃 I came in here to make that same joke. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/31 "2005-01-24T18:06:32Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > I can kind of see their point. **Poster nudity is not about sexuality. It is not about the human body. It is not about Art.** It isn’t even about porn. So if you’re defending it on these grounds you are way off mark. > > It is about selling stuff. Plain, ordinary, grubby marketing. Buy this and look like/sleep with me > > So you don’t have to be a prude to find it objectionable and I can’t get too upset if some people get annoyed with it. (bolding mine, of course) I have several friends who are photographers, painters, sculptors and even advertising folks who might disagree with this. Advertising images are \*purchased \*by folks who want to sell stuff, sure. But they’re often \*created \*by artists who take great pride in their work, and are just happy to have any exposure at all. Whether you see [Frank Horvat’s](http://www.horvatland.com/) work in Harper’s, a gallery in France or an advertisment for cheese doesn’t change the artistic value of the image itself. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/32 "2005-01-24T21:05:33Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Except for the little issue that **gum** only _ever_ pits Muslims, so perhaps it’s a good thing to show that there can be arseholes of all creeds. (And these people are indeed arseholes.) You’re a paranoid bugger, aren’t you? Seen my ‘Fuck the church’ thread? Sad sod. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/33 "2005-01-24T21:24:26Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Except for the little issue that **gum** only _ever_ pits Muslims, so perhaps it’s a good thing to show that there can be arseholes of all creeds. (And these people are indeed arseholes.) Except, again, that **gum** lives in The Netherlands, and the only people he actually _sees_ lashing out in this fashion are almost certainly Muslims. Not 16th century Popes, not Orthodox Jews, and not fundamentalist evangelical Protestants from the American South. Western Europe must be the most free region in the entire world when it comes to social acceptance of nudity (or, as in this case, near-nudity). IMHO if you’re going to emigrate from a Muslim country to The Netherlands, then by God you can either assimilate, or else merely look the other way if you see something that offends your religious sensibilities. You don’t go destroying private property just because you find it offensive or sinful. Otherwise why bother emigrating? If I were the OP I’d be furious. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/34 "2005-01-24T21:52:02Z")
**SoP:** _Except, again, that gum lives in The Netherlands, and the only people he actually sees lashing out in this fashion are almost certainly Muslims._ If **gum** in the Netherlands were Pitting only the reactionary fundamentalists that she\* could see in action, she would not be worrying about Muslim poster defacers **in the UK** , which is what the OP is on about. Unless she’s got one hell of a telescope staring across the North Sea there. Folks, why all the hostility over which groups are being criticized in this thread? I see nothing wrong with **gum** ’s ranting about a bunch of vandalizing Muslims, even if they don’t happen to be operating on her own turf, nor do I see anything wrong with **El\_Kabong** or me pointing out that not only Muslims torque their panties over indecency in advertising, or commit criminal acts in the name of censorship. Can’t we all just join hands and bitch about self-righteous property destruction in unity and harmony here? - I think it’s been mentioned in previous threads that **gum** is female, but I apologize if I’m remembering that wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/35 "2005-01-24T22:23:41Z")
**SoP:** _Western Europe must be the most free region in the entire world when it comes to social acceptance of nudity (or, as in this case, near-nudity)._ Most likely (except for traditional societies where nudity or near-nudity in public is routinely practiced, of course. I’ve seen folks in rural areas of India wearing a “bare minimum” you couldn’t get away with in sophisticated Paris, nohow!). However, I think it’s a mistake to assume that nobody in Western Europe except for Muslim immigrants dislikes near-nudity or other forms of erotic suggestion in advertising. From an article on [the decline of sexual radicalism in the Netherlands](http://www2.fmg.uva.nl/gl/radsex.html): > [@](#): > > The reaction of the public is quite ambivalent. While it is attracted to sex in the media, or intrigued by the drag queens and leather men in chaps of gay parades, there is a continuous worry that the public realm has become oversexualized. Most Dutch believe the media should restrain the explicitness of sexual imagery, or only show it late at night when children have gone to bed. Erotic advertising is often criticised because it unnecessarily insults orthodox christian and muslim women and endangers the innocence of kids while the reverse is never brought forward, for example that it is healthy for young people to loose their innocence. Many newspapers have shown the most sexy pictures of gay parades on the front page. These same newspapers print letters to the editor on the inner pages of enraged citizens who state that the gay boys rather should stay in their bars and clubs with their extravaganza, and not show it in the streets. The public remains very ambivalent about public sexuality. […] In the UK as well, it is by no means an exclusively Muslim trait to object to nudity or suggestiveness in public advertising. (“No sex please, we’re British!” :D) Just consider all the complaints received back in 2000 about a proposed Yves St Laurent [billboard featuring a nude female model](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1077165.stm). The Advertising Standards Authority actually banned the ad on account of the complaints. **SoP:** _IMHO if you’re going to emigrate from a Muslim country to The Netherlands, then by God you can either assimilate, or else merely look the other way if you see something that offends your religious sensibilities._ This is a double standard. Evidently, there are plenty of **non-Muslims** in the liberal, tolerant West who don’t feel obligated to “look the other way” if they see something in a public advertisement that they consider indecent. On the contrary, they consider themselves entitled to protest vigorously to get the indecent material removed. Why shouldn’t Muslims—even Muslim immigrants—be allowed to do the same? I think we’re all agreed, though, that the right to lobby against what you consider indecency stops short of vandalism and other forms of destruction of property. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/36 "2005-01-25T01:42:29Z")
> [@Happy Lendervedder](#): > > Maybe I’m being whooshed here, and if I am let me know… > > But most Muslims were outraged. Cite ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/37 "2005-01-25T01:53:08Z")
I find burkhas (sp) offensive. No one is forcing a model to take off their shirt or wear a bikini. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/38 "2005-01-25T03:58:54Z")
**Happy Lendervedder** _Maybe I’m being whooshed here,_ I think “whooshed” isn’t what you think it is. Perhaps (and I’m guessing here) that you think I purposely put an inflammatory posting just to incite some anger in the SDMB membership? (That would be more like trolling - but I could be wrong). I just think it is strange that a mentality that is rather prudish (and I’m not saying ALL Muslims are prudish), decides the “proper” punishment for improper sexual behavior is beheading, stoning or hanging. Yes in Islamic countries, people have been _executed_ for adultery and homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/39 "2005-01-25T04:26:49Z")
If you cross Muslims Against ADvertising with Mothers Against Drunk Driving, do you get Muslim Mothers Against ADvertising Drunk Driving (MMAADDD)? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244/40 "2005-01-25T04:34:17Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I find burkhas (sp) offensive. No one is forcing a model to take off their shirt or wear a bikini. I find Burkhas Ironic, it just increases the mystery and sexual arousement when I see one wearing it. Theres my two cents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-group-targets-poster-nudity/286244.md?page=3)