# Muslim riots over cartoons--is political correctness going overboard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887 "2006-02-03T19:52:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/21 "2006-02-03T20:56:01Z")
> [@Pope Bob The Pious](#): > > Certainly, but what we are talking about is not conceivably ‘hate speech’. The cartoon depicted Mohammed as a terrorist. Whether or not you want to call that hate speech, it is still deeply offensive to Muslims, the vast majority of which are peaceful, law abiding, non-violent consumers. > [@](#): > > How many embassasies were attacked or hostages seized over that one? None? Imagine that. Relevance? ---
**Author:** ![Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pope_Bob_The_Pious)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/22 "2006-02-03T21:08:56Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The cartoon depicted Mohammed as a terrorist. Whether or not you want to call that hate speech, it is still deeply offensive to Muslims, the vast majority of which are peaceful, law abiding, non-violent consumers. I don’t deny that the cartoons are offensive to some, but don’t see how that changes anything. Unless people have a legal right to ‘not be offended’, folks will just have to get on with their lives when they see or read something that offends them. As for the Islamic prohibition against images of Moe, [it does seem that there are some ‘exceptions’ to the rule.](http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/) At the top of that page are several images of Moe from Islamic artists. (And for the love of all that is NSFW, don’t go looking at the other sections of that site if you have a weak constitution or are at work!) > [@](#): > > Relevance? None. I misread **rjung** ’s comment. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/23 "2006-02-03T21:14:48Z")
> [@Pope Bob The Pious](#): > > I don’t deny that the cartoons are offensive to some, but don’t see how that changes anything. Unless people have a legal right to ‘not be offended’, folks will just have to get on with their lives when they see or read something that offends them. What do legal rights have to do with anything? This is not about legal rights of Muslims, it’s about CNN’s right not show an offensive cartoon if they don’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/24 "2006-02-03T21:19:17Z")
I came in here to say what I see **Diogenes** has already said: CNN is a business. It is a small part of the enormous Time Warner group, the largest media company in the world. The business CNN is in just happens to be journalism. Does that clarify their choices at all? If it was up to me, and here’s why it never will be, I would have put the cartoon on CNN’s Web site. Put it in a link with the standard disclaimers so nobody sees it if they don’t want to, but as a journalist, I think you _have_ to run it. I think it’s just stupid of a news outlet to report on a controversy about something’s allegedly offensiveness while refusing, out of politeness, to inform their readers or viewers about what the offensive thing actually is, allowing the viewer to come to his or her own conclusions about the content. Otherwise, your ‘news’ is just someone else’s regurgitated outrage. I do wish that CNN had said something other than “out of respect for Islam,” because that makes the decision seem like kowtowing. They could have expressed the same thing in a way that didn’t make it sound like Islam was an exception. Of course, it may BE an exception, and I think that would be a real problem. Last July, the Mexican government reissued stamps of a Mexican comic book character named [Memin Pinguin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mem%C3%ADn_Pingu%C3%ADn), (note: some may find these images offensive, and they do not represent the views or ideas of **Marley** , who does not own them). Some American blacks and civil rights groups thought the cartoon character was racist because the character looks like such a black stereotype. As I remember it, [CNN.com](http://CNN.com)’s story about the controversy did include an image of Memin. Unfortunately I can’t find that story on [CNN.com](http://CNN.com). By way of contrast, [MSNBC’s top story does not show the cartoons](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11097877/) - in fact, they ask people to vote in a poll about whether the outrage is justified, sight unseen - but they [sure did include images of Memin.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11097877/) ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/25 "2006-02-03T21:28:11Z")
A link from the Druge Report shows the cartoons: [http://www.humaneventsonline.com/sarticle.php?id=12146](http://www.humaneventsonline.com/sarticle.php?id=12146) And that’s all they are folks, cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/26 "2006-02-03T21:29:13Z")
**Marley23** , if I were in charge of CNN, I would not show it, and I would state that I’m not showing it so that I do not further endanger CNN people in the region. We know how these fanatics will react and it is a difficult job to protect our people in the region as it is. And I would have my newsreaders loudly and repeatedly denounce the actions of the hate-mongering barbarians, and not mince words. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/27 "2006-02-03T21:36:04Z")
Calling this “political correctness” demonstrates the emptiness of the term “political correctness.” That term seems to be a way for one group to rationalize its giving offense to others. Displaying an image of the Prophet Muhammad doesn’t compare to anything else. As has been pointed out elsewhere, it’s expressly forbidden by Islam to display any image of Muhammad. To violate this is to attack the very foundation of Islam itself. Islam is very much down on idolatry; Muhammad made a point of that. This prohibition is very much in step with his vision for the religion, so to thumb your nose at his request that he never be portrayed is to thumb your nose at the very foundation of Islam itself. This doesn’t compare to flag burning or _Piss Christ_ (even though flag burning and _Piss Christ_ offend plenty of people as it is.) This is something that tells all the followers of a particular religion that there’s something very wrong with the very core of that which they and generations of ancestors have based their lives around. That doesn’t justify the violent reaction some Muslims have made, which was wrong for other reasons. I think the European papers were foolish to provoke Islam. They made a point about free speech, and that’s all well and good. But was there really a need to insult all these people to do it? They should be allowed to draw pictures of Muhammad if they want; that shouldn’t be banned. But offending people just to show that you _can_ offend people—what are they trying to prove? Same thing with _Piss Christ_ and flag burning, for that matter—keep them legal, and hope that those who would make use of such powerful expressions of their civil rights might consider the value of _not_ using a battering ram where a hammer will do. And, of course, if my government ever moved to _ban_ flag burning, _Piss Christing_ or Muhammad drawing, I’d be the first one to break those laws, because then I’d have a reason to. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/28 "2006-02-03T21:44:20Z")
Is it really against Islamic law? Isn’t it merely one interpretation of Islamic law? Contraception is also against Catholic canon, should we ban all adverts for contraception? Where do you draw the line? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/29 "2006-02-03T21:47:51Z")
> [@](#): > > As for the Islamic prohibition against images of Moe, it does seem that there are some ‘exceptions’ to the rule. At the top of that page are several images of Moe from Islamic artists. (And for the love of all that is NSFW, don’t go looking at the other sections of that site if you have a weak constitution or are at work!) There’s been a lot of variation throughout history and countries about exactly what can or cannot be shown. A great many hold that no images at all are allowed. Others allow “cartoonish” images, others images of animals but not people, some allow people. Some would even allow you to show the body of the Prophet. Even the most “liberal” stances I’ve encountered still draw the line at any depictions of the Prophet’s face, however. Anyone who would show the face would be in a small minority. When a Muslim production company made the movie **The Message** (aka **Muhammed, Messenger of God** ), they didn’t even show his shadow – his presence was indicated by one of his personal items. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/30 "2006-02-03T21:48:58Z")
Another link: [http://skender.be/supportdenmark/MohammedDrawings.jpg](http://skender.be/supportdenmark/MohammedDrawings.jpg) Oh, and the fact that State Department spokesman Justin Higgins disapproves the publishing of the cartoons, makes it absolutely clear that condoning and finding excuses for Islam is a right-wing reaction. As I said before: A xenophobic, homofobic, anti-semite, female-oppressing, violent and **conservative** religion like Islam, can never be associated with a modern, left-wing government. _[Dictionary, Left:The people and groups who advocate liberal, often radical measures to effect change in the established order, especially in politics, usually to achieve the equality, freedom, and well-being of the common citizens of a state. Also called left wing.]_ So, The reaction of CNN wasn’t PC, but merely right-wing. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/31 "2006-02-03T21:49:34Z")
Also, doesn’t satire and offense go hand-in-hand? This isn’t about the persecution of a particular group but the freedom of expression of a much more vulnerable group. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/32 "2006-02-03T21:58:41Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > **Marley23** , if I were in charge of CNN, I would not show it, and I would state that I’m not showing it so that I do not further endanger CNN people in the region. That’s a better reason. I hadn’t thought of that one. > [@](#): > > And I would have my newsreaders loudly and repeatedly denounce the actions of the hate-mongering barbarians, and not mince words. That, however, is outside the bounds of a news show in my opinion. CNN doesn’t need to pick a side in a propaganda war. > [@Chance the Gardner](#): > > As has been pointed out elsewhere, it’s expressly forbidden by Islam to display any image of Muhammad. To violate this is to attack the very foundation of Islam itself. Islam is very much down on idolatry; Muhammad made a point of that. This prohibition is very much in step with his vision for the religion, so to thumb your nose at his request that he never be portrayed is to thumb your nose at the very foundation of Islam itself. There’s no way this could be taken as idolatry, that’s for sure. 😉 If the Muslims are this offended by _non-Muslims_ not following Muhammad’s commandments, they’ll have to learn to deal with it. **gum** , I think you’re wrong for a number of reasons. Among them is the fact that Bill Clinton has also denounced the cartoons. The US government is in a no-win situation here, but I wish they’d chosen to keep their mouths closed. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/33 "2006-02-03T21:58:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The French have done the expected thing- they surrendered. 😛 The only French paper to print the cartoons fired it’s Managing Editor. :rolleyes: Well, a bit of context here. The newspaper in question was “France Soir”, and the guy who fired the Managing Editor is not French. The owner of the paper is Egyptian, and he was the one who took the decision. The next day, that paper had, in its first page, the headline: “Voltaire, au secours, ils sont devenus fous!” (Voltaire, help us, they have gone insane!) (Voltaire was the guy who said “I don’t agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it”). (There are rumours that the Managing Editor of France Soir and the Egyptian owner did not see eye to eye and had been in conflict for quite some time, and that this was more a question of the owner finding a suitable excuse to fire him summarily. Time will tell, anyway). There have been other newspapers in France who have published the cartoons. As well as publishing _new_ ones, like the one in “Le Monde” today, by Plantu, which is a drawing of Mohammed made out of written text, the lines of which read: “Je ne dois pas dessiner Mahomet” (I must not draw Mohammed). The French minister of interior, Sarkozy, has defended freedom of the press strongly in this case, saying essentially that it is non-negotiable. All in all, it seems that the French are not surrendering right now. And the cartoons have been published in Germany, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, Iceland, the Netherlands, Belgium, even Jordan (although the editor was fired immediatly and the newspaper was taken off the shops within hours), possibly New Zealand, and I have heard that in Mexico as well. I am flabbergasted at the AMAZING STUPIDITY of the guys who stirred this hornests’ nest. The drawings were published in _SEPTEMBER_, for goodness sake! And it is all exploding now? There were some imams who lived in Denmark and took the drawings in a tour of the Middle East, along with some extra illustrations that were _TRULY OFFENSIVE_ and _NOT_, repeat, _NOT_ among the 12 published by the Jyllands-Posten. And look at what they have obtained… The offending cartoons being published in many other countries, being available for millions upon millions of other readers to see… As well as inducing a wave of rather sick illustrations loose upon the internet which are INFINITELY worse than even the “worse” of the cartoons… And that is not the worst thing ☹ I am honestly scared of what can come out of this in the middle-to-long term. Many people here in Europe are getting truly pissed off due to all this, and I am afraid of emotional overreactions to this emotional overreaction. I shall explain now. The European extreme-right parties (French National Front and similar) are positively _salivating_ when thinking of the next elections. All this mess is manna from heaven for them!!! They are sure to be using it for their campaigning, and I am afraid of their getting sizeable wins in the ballot box, because then we will _all_ end up worse. Heck, the Dansk Folkeparti is _already_ the third biggest in the Danish parliament… Can you imagine what will happen in the next elections there?!? To the guys who started this unholy mess: Well done, FUCKERS! What the HELL were you thinking?!? Way to shoot yourself in the foot after getting it way down in your mouth!!! Deity help us if certain groups end up getting influence in European governments due to this stupid spat. In that case, if those imams thought they were going to help their “Muslim Brothers” in Europe… oooooh boy, they ain’t seen nothing yet ☹☹ Just my 2 eurocent JoseB ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/34 "2006-02-03T22:03:11Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > That should say ‘Danish flags’ in my post above. I don’t know why I wrote ‘Israeli & US flags’. Force of habit. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/35 "2006-02-03T22:05:07Z")
There was quite an uproar by Christians over the recent Jerry Springer play, but I don’t recall any Moslems complaining about it, and Christ is one of their prophets too, isn’t he? And I don’t recall any complaints from Moslems about cartoonists depicting God in the cartoons after the death of Pope John Paul II. I think the western Moslems are hypocrites, but I can believe that those in areas where they don’t have a free press are ignorant (in the proper sense of the word). ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/36 "2006-02-03T22:07:20Z")
**Marley23** , Bill Clinton is aiming for Kofi Annan’s job. What did you expect him to say? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/37 "2006-02-03T22:11:41Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Let us not bask too complacently in the assumption that Christians in enlightened developed countries always react in a civilized manner to things that offend their religious sensibilities. Are you suggesting that the ways adherents of Islam and Christianity react to perceived affronts/assaults by members of other religions are equivalent? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/38 "2006-02-03T22:12:44Z")
That doesn’t hand-wave the comment away. It’s highly unlikely Clinton will ever be Secretary-General, and even if he was, it won’t be soon. The next S-G is going to be Asian; I’m not sure when it’ll be the Americas’ turn again. (And there’s never been a North American S-G, and… well, anyway). And if I know that, then Bill Clinton knows it. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/39 "2006-02-03T22:13:31Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Is it really against Islamic law? Isn’t it merely one interpretation of Islamic law? It really is. It’s against Sharia law. What Muslim sect accepts images of Muhammad? > [@](#): > > Contraception is also against Catholic canon, should we ban all adverts for contraception? Where do you draw the line? Who’s talking about banning anything? I’m not. That’s an issue for Vatican TV and newspapers, but not for democracies. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887/40 "2006-02-03T22:17:05Z")
> [@gum](#): > > **Marley23** , Bill Clinton is aiming for Kofi Annan’s job. What did you expect him to say? How about something honest as opposed to diplo-babble: Part of the price of living in a free society is having some of your core convictions insulted by others who don’t agree with you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-riots-over-cartoons-is-political-correctness-going-overboard/342887.md?page=3)