# Muslim women and drivers license photos **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 28, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-women-and-drivers-license-photos/178064 "2003-05-28T17:24:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-women-and-drivers-license-photos/178064/21 "2003-05-30T03:20:22Z")
Sorry, in the eighth paragraph in my last post I meant to write “The Azhar Salafis” … should have proofread better, ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-women-and-drivers-license-photos/178064/22 "2003-05-30T04:27:28Z")
**JM** : A fair rebuttal :). I still question whether modern “jihadist-salafists” can all properly be called “Wahhabi”, but I’ll table that in the interest of not dragging out this GD-like hijack. I will say, though, that your characterization of all Wahhbis/Salafis as the being the equivalent of Fred Phelps or Jack Chick might be just a little bit unfair. However religiously conservative your average Saudi might be, they are not necessarily frothing haters, like Phelps et al. It’s only the ultra-extremist nutballs like ObL that fall into the _completely_ undialogueable camp. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-women-and-drivers-license-photos/178064/23 "2003-05-30T05:20:29Z")
**Tamerlane** , I didn’t say that all modern jihadist fundies are Wahhabi … but it’s remarkable how much today’s Arab Islamists have become influenced by Wahhaboid-type attitudes. If you trace the lineage of most groups, you will find that they’re unconnected to Wahhabi origin, true. In this sense you’re right. But in effect, they start to resemble Wahhabism in virulence. Call it “convergent de-evolution.” I have been to Saudi Arabia and I’m aware that the average Saudi citizen is nothing like the crazies in the news. These are people who have been coerced into obeying the Wahhabi system. There are even some, mostly from old Hijaz families, who are completely non-Wahhabi. The Yamani family is a good example. Ahmad Zaki Yamani was the Saudi oil minister 30 years ago (forced out because he was non-Wahhabi), and his daughter Mai is an Islamic feminist. The Khashoqji family is another prominent non-Wahhabi Hijazi family. Jamal Khashoqji, a major Saudi newspaper editor, was forced out of his job at _al-Watan_ the other day because he openly criticized Wahhabis. But the people who join Wahhabi groups in America were not whipped into obedience by the Saudi system. They chose it freely, so they tend to be of a fanatic mentality. You haven’t met these people. I have. I know what I’m talking about when I compare them to Phelps and Chick. Ugh. Your distinction between the merely theological Wahhabis and the violent jihadists is an important one. In effect, the violent jihadist ideology binds together the groups of Wahhabi and non-Wahhabi origin so that sharing it in common they become more like each other. Hey, thanks to **MEBuckner** and **UncleBill** for actually answering the OP question! Good job. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-women-and-drivers-license-photos/178064/24 "2003-05-30T06:18:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > > If you trace the lineage of most groups, you will find that they’re unconnected to Wahhabi origin, true. In this sense you’re right. But in effect, they start to resemble Wahhabism in virulence. Call it “convergent de-evolution.” Nice phrase :D. > [@](#): > > But the people who join Wahhabi groups in America were not whipped into obedience by the Saudi system. They chose it freely, so they tend to be of a fanatic mentality. Oh, I can see that. Nobody more fanatical than the convert to an extremely rigid sect. The topic of this OP certainly seems to fit that mold. - Tamerlane [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslim-women-and-drivers-license-photos/178064.md?page=1)