# Muslims and Halloween **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 1, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444 "2011-11-01T01:27:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/41 "2011-11-02T06:09:14Z")
sqweels: > [@](#): > > But while I welcome the knowledge that some Jews are superstitious about Halloween It’s not superstition. It’s a form of idolatry, to celebrate the holiday of another religion. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/42 "2011-11-02T06:17:46Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Yes, I meant Muslims living in the US, and no, Halloween is not a Christian holiday. Any religious–Christian or Pagan–aspects of its origins are irrelevant to the actual participants. > > The main aspects of Halloween are: > [ul] > [li]Putting up spooky or death-themed decorations because for some reason it’s fun. [/li][li]Dressing up in masquarade costumes which increasingly haver noting to do with death.[/li][li]Ritually handing out candy to children who come to the door, which strengthens neighborood ties.[/li][/ul] In Spain any festival involving disguises, specially where those may hide your face, gets automatically conflated with Carnaval (Mardi Gras). So here, Halloween has two versions: 1. Some schools celebrate it (no hidden faces allowed, no we don’t care whether you’re Spiderman or Daffy Duck we still need to see your face). They may have no classes or reduced classes, but the children still spend the usual length of time at the school. No trick or treat. 2. Grown ups get disguised, go to a party at a club and get drunk. Muslims whose kids go to those schools have their kids celebrate Halloween (inasmuch as you can call that “celebrate Halloween”). Practicing Muslims won’t be found in a number 2 unless they happen to be the waiter. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/43 "2011-11-02T06:27:14Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yes, just like blacks go crazy whenever they’re in the presence of fried chicken. Yeah, but who doesn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/44 "2011-11-02T12:32:00Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > So the only people who think of it as a religious holiday are those who have nothing to do with it? They have nothing to do with it _because_ they consider it a religious holiday. Many people make the same case for celebrating Christmas in the US and dismiss the concerns of Jews and others who consider it a Christian holiday. It’s a central point of your argument. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/45 "2011-11-02T15:25:52Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > They have nothing to do with it _because_ they consider it a religious holiday. Many people make the same case for celebrating Christmas in the US and dismiss the concerns of Jews and others who consider it a Christian holiday. It’s a central point of your argument. The point he’s making is that if the people who actually practice it don’t consider it a religious holiday, who are you to say that they are wrong and you who know nothing about current practices are right? You can’t argue that you don’t celebrate any holidays that were ever celebrated as being (non-Jewish) religious, because then you’d have to leave out Thanksgiving, as it was originally a religious observance, as Plymouth governor William Bradford’s book _Of Plymouth Plantation_ states, thanking God for the harvest. It doesn’t match up with Christmas, as that holiday is [still] celebrated as a religious holiday by a lot of people. It makes sense that you can’t claim it isn’t religious. But Halloween? Nope. There’s a Wiccan holiday that takes place on the same day, but it isn’t Halloween. I’m fine with not celebrating it, but the excuse that the reason is that it’s a Christian holiday doesn’t hold water. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/46 "2011-11-02T16:19:55Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’m fine with not celebrating it, but the excuse that the reason is that it’s a Christian holiday doesn’t hold water. It’s not an argument I support either, but other people honestly believe so and can support their argument logically and have done so. I don’t dismiss their beliefs lightly. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/47 "2011-11-02T17:01:07Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The point he’s making is that if the people who > You can’t argue that you don’t celebrate any holidays that were ever celebrated as being (non-Jewish) religious, because then you’d have to leave out Thanksgiving, as it was originally a religious observance, as Plymouth governor William Bradford’s book _Of Plymouth Plantation_ states, thanking God for the harvest. > > It doesn’t match up with Christmas, as that holiday is [still] celebrated as a religious holiday by a lot of people. It makes sense that you can’t claim it isn’t religious. But Halloween? Nope. There’s a Wiccan holiday that takes place on the same day, but it isn’t Halloween. > > I’m fine with not celebrating it, but the excuse that the reason is that it’s a Christian holiday doesn’t hold water. The point is that it has origins in a religious holiday. Incidentally, many Orthodox Jews don’t celebrate Thanksgiving either. Re the OP’s original question, I asked a fairly recent Pakistani immigrant colleague about this. He said that a “practical” Muslim would not celebrate Halloween, because the Prophet said there are only two holidays, but many Muslims would participate because they “want to blend in”. I have other Muslim friends who actually grew up in the USA, I’ll try to ask them in the next few days and post back on this thread. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/48 "2011-11-02T18:22:13Z")
In my neighbourhood, the mix of kids trick-or-treating (and we got 250) were pretty much a reflection of the neighbourhood. In this case, mostly non-white; and in Canada, his means an equal mix of oriental, sikh, hindu and/or moslem (East Indian), Phillipino, and West Indian; ncluding pre-teen Sikh boys wearing what looks like a tight smurf hat. My guess is that like “Christians”, some care and don’t believe in celebrating an inappropriate day, others take Halloween in the spirit that it is gven in North America - a time to have fun with any religious/paganistic/satanistic overtones long discarded in favour of the “fun factor”. IIRC All Hallows Eve was time for the witches and evil spirits to have a last big blast before the solemnity of All Saints’ Day, the feast day of any saints that don’t get their own day. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/49 "2011-11-02T18:40:19Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > OK, good. I can imagine that Muslim women are quite a bit more restricted in how revealing their costumes can be, but so long as none of them feel as though they’re not allowed to go out in costume at all, then that’s fine. They could fit right in by wearing white burqas. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/50 "2011-11-02T19:35:21Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > The ones in the Washington, DC area and other parts of the country. As a rule, mosques in America are dominated by the more conservative or fundamentalist stripe of Muslims in the community. The exceptions to this are few. Cite? > [@](#): > > Yes they do. I’ve seen them doing it. Lots of places in different parts of th country.No. Friday school is regular school (Monday through Friday). They have Sunday school for kids at the mosque because that’s the day people have off of work in America. Point taken. I can see this being the case in America. But the Muslim world is much larger than that, and it was the worldwide _umma_ to which I was referring. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/51 "2011-11-02T20:07:09Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > In the mosques they preach against and teach Sunday-school kids against anything Christian or Pagan, including Christmas, Saint Valentine’s Day, and Halloween. But lots of mosques are cool with Thanksgiving. They call it ‘_Id al-Shukran_. I’ve never heard of a word ever being uttered against Hanukkah or anything Jewish, though. I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt that many Muslim families are just fine with their kids observing Hannukah. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/52 "2011-11-02T20:40:45Z")
Yeah, I too have some serious doubts about **Johanna** ’s claims here, and her factual authority (or lack thereof) for making them. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/53 "2011-11-03T00:24:21Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > They could fit right in by wearing white burqas. Burqas are scary no matter what color they are. :eek: But would, say, a witch outfit be acceptable for a muslim girl so long as it had a long enough skirt? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/54 "2011-11-03T01:44:09Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > But would, say, a witch outfit be acceptable for a muslim girl so long as it had a long enough skirt? It really depends on the person. Some Muslims would be perfectly fine with the “sexy witch in a miniskirt” while others might not be. There is no single central authority or set of rules, and of course different people have different levels of adherence. It’s just like Christianity- some people are really in to it and get really uptight, others are just in it for the holidays and don’t really worry too much. ---
**Author:** ![ProbablyProcrastinating](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/57b2e6/32.png) [@ProbablyProcrastinating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProbablyProcrastinating)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/55 "2011-11-04T18:55:36Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > 1. Grown ups get disguised, go to a party at a club and get drunk. > > Muslims whose kids go to those schools have their kids celebrate Halloween (inasmuch as you can call that “celebrate Halloween”). Practicing Muslims won’t be found in a number 2 unless they happen to be the waiter. You know all the wrong Muslims! Drinking is not haram. Drunkenness is a sin, but not like eating pork. I would say about 75% of the Muslims I know will have a drink or smoke or two or three. Most don’t get totally trashed, but then, I don’t hang with the “get totally trashed” crowd in general. You need to hang out with more Asian Muslims. They’ve got that pluralist, liberal Islam going ON.\* \*ETA–yes, that, too is a generalization. It’s a cultural one. Like French people drink more wine. Certainly there are many liberal Muslims in the West, Europe, Africa and the Middle East. But if you want to party, and you don’t know them personally, I’d place your bets on people from Mumbai, Istanbul and Tatarstan. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/56 "2011-11-05T22:06:48Z")
I have partied in İstanbul, and yeah I guess you’re right about that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444/57 "2011-11-07T00:28:35Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt that many Muslim families are just fine with their kids observing Hannukah. :dubious: 😕 Of course, even non-fundamentalist Muslim families wouldn’t initiate Hanukkah celebrations in their own households, but why would they object to their kids participating in Hanukkah festivities with their Jewish friends? AFAIK, there’s nothing in the doctrinal or dietary aspects of Hanukkah that is intrinsically offensive to Muslim beliefs or practices. Unlike Christian observances, Jewish observances aren’t viewed in Islamic doctrine as idolatrous or polytheistic. Of course, antisemitic extremist Muslims who reflexively hate everything Jewish would object to their kids’ having any involvement with Hanukkah. But that’s because they’re antisemitic extremists, not because it violates mainstream Islamic doctrine. If you find it hard to believe that there could be “many” Muslim families who don’t have a problem with Hanukkah, you may be overestimating the proportion of antisemitic extremists among Muslims in the US and worldwide. For example, famously, in 2007 [a 20-year-old Muslim attended a Hanukkah celebration hosted by some Jewish young people whom he had defended from a group of thugs on the New York subway](http://theislamicworkplace.com/2007/12/15/hassan-askari-muslim-hero-attends-hanukkah-celebration/). (The thugs were trying to make the Jewish friends wish them “Merry Christmas” instead of “Happy Hanukkah”.) AFAICT, most US Muslims considered that completely unobjectionable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-and-halloween/601444.md?page=2)