# Muslims: Why are we so reserved to them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812 "2002-04-21T15:45:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/21 "2002-04-21T17:40:48Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > Oh for crying out loud-what do you like about the communist system? Gulags? Purges? The torture, the lies, the killing, the opression, bloodshed, cruelty? \*\* Ehh… To be fair, the “idea” of communism doesn’t include those (And from the little I know, would tend to be against that). The real-life of it, of course, is nothing like the ideal. There are some good ideas mixed in there, but the implementation always has some pretty serious flaws to it (I know, sounds like an understatement…). Personally, I much prefer democratic systems, they tend to have more safeguards against such things, one of the more notable flaws of communism that allows such things to develop. And I’m not exactly sure about the deal with using a quote from Stalin. Personally, I prefer a different quote, “artillery is the god of war.” So do many modern artillery gunners and other soldiers, even durring the cold war. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/22 "2002-04-21T17:43:37Z")
Besides, a socialist/democratic state-such as the US, or Canada, is probably a better bet. No, the ideal of communism doesn’t include that. But the “ideal” of capitalism doesn’t include sweatshops and people who are working likes slaves, starving, monopolies, depressions and the like. But we all know the ideal means nothing when you hit reality. ---
**Author:** ![ignatzmouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b2d939/32.png) [@ignatzmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignatzmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/23 "2002-04-21T17:44:22Z")
Komsomol, most of the responses to your post were directly on topic. People were merely confused because you misrepresented the situation in your OP. You can’t expect rational debate when you post and imaginary circumstance and ask why it happened. Re-read the relevant responses and think about them. ---
**Author:** ![Komsomol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecc23a/32.png) [@Komsomol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Komsomol)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/24 "2002-04-21T17:46:40Z")
See the changes? I have bowed to your Capitalist pressure! ---
**Author:** ![David\_Weman\_cdw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@David\_Weman\_cdw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Weman_cdw)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/25 "2002-04-21T17:54:57Z")
Is this the funniest Great debate since Jack Dean Tyler? ---
**Author:** ![Komsomol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecc23a/32.png) [@Komsomol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Komsomol)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/26 "2002-04-21T17:57:08Z")
I’m damn sure of it…I knew this would happen ---
**Author:** ![ignatzmouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b2d939/32.png) [@ignatzmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignatzmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/27 "2002-04-21T18:28:26Z")
Kosomol, you seem unwilling to address the OP, and yet you complain about others getting off topic. Am I to conclude that you acknowledge that you deserved to be arrested and that you need to quit whining about it? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/28 "2002-04-21T18:33:06Z")
**Komsomol** , my question really has to do with the thread name. I am having trouble parsing “Why are we so reserved to them?” Do you mean why do communists defer to muslims? Why does my government treat muslims with reserve? Why do people in general listen to the police? I need help with who the “we” and the “them” refers to. I also need you to clarify what you mean by “reserve to them”. ---
**Author:** ![ignatzmouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b2d939/32.png) [@ignatzmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignatzmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/29 "2002-04-21T18:44:34Z")
Please correct me if I’m wrong. You are asking why Western societies allow Muslims to protest. We do tjhis because to varying degrees, we are open and free societies. Why do we not allow citizens to violently disrupt protests? For exactly the same reason. Why don’t I take you very seriously? Because in 24 posts you have lied, hijacked, pouted, and demonstrated a profound lack of basic knowledge about the twentieth century. Do actually you have a debate or are you content with merely drawing attention to yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/30 "2002-04-21T19:18:47Z")
Now you’ve changed your sig to “Let the revolution begin!!!”. Do you know about all the death and suffering that Communist revolutions have caused? All the displaced families, secret tortures, and mass starvation that has resulted from these revolutions of oppression? Don’t be surprised you’re getting flamed for being openly Communist. You deserve it. In all its history, Communism has done more harm than fascism and Nazism combined. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/31 "2002-04-21T20:52:15Z")
Daoloth wrote: > [@](#): > > Now you’ve changed your sig to “Let the revolution begin!!!”. Unfortunately, the way this message board’s software works, once you change your signature it’s changed in ALL messages you’ve ever posted. So now ALL of Komsomol’s messages end with “Let the revolution begin!”. Since I just now found this thread, can you tell me what Komsomol’s signature USED TO say? ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/32 "2002-04-21T21:11:31Z")
Goodness. There must be something in the water. Engelbert Humperdinck fans, unreformed communists, Le Pen in the second round . . . Maybe it’s just spring. First, with respect to the OP, the facts, as I understand them are this. A group of Muslims starts an organized, and, apparently, officially sanctioned protest. A group of Communist Youth, who just happen to be passing by, get into a physical altercation with the heretofore peacefully protesting, officially permitted, Muslim demonstrators. The police arrive and arrest the Communist Youth rather then the lawful protesters. The cheek! Quite. Obviously a facist conspiracy, there’s no doubt about it. **Komsomol** There have been a couple of recent threads on the practicality of communism. You might want to do a search and take a look at them. The problem is that, despite communism’s laudable goals, it hasn’t worked in the past, doesn’t work now and shows no prospect of every being able to, work in the future. I, personally, want to live in Teletubby land and dance and sing all day. Doesn’t universal happiness and contentment with one’s lot define the ideal society? Unfortunately, living in a communal house and survinging on “tubby custard” while being cared for by a robotic vacuum cleaner is unlikely to achieve these goals. Such is the problem with communism. Fine idea. A great vision of society. The problem is, it just doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/33 "2002-04-21T21:28:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Komsomol \* > \*\*The prospect of having a job from cradle to grave, free education, healthcare and full employment. Not the political ideologies \*\* I can’t remember who pointed out that this is a description of life in prison. Anyone know? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/34 "2002-04-21T21:58:11Z")
Komsomol: Yes, here in Ann Arbor the loathsome Klan came to have a rally. Since they were legally allowed to have their little gathering, the sensible people in town decided to do two things: (1) ignore the bigots and don’t go to their rally and (2) stage a simultaneous family-friendly, everyone-welcome peace party across town in a park. That gave people a chance to show, en masse, that they rejected the principles of those Klan morons, but without listening to their ugliness. However, there were a group of people who decided they wanted to have a presence at the Klan rally to confront them face-to-face. It was their right to do so, however ill-advised many people thought it was. And it would have been fine until they started to hurl abuse at the citizen volunteers who were helping to man the fences (yes the city had to construct barricades and the like), and then tear down the barricades, and attack people. Yes, they attacked people. I believe a photo taken that day made the national news, when a young black woman threw herself down on top of a skinhead who was being attacked. Here’s a photo. [http://www.mppa.org/mppa/1996/html/spotnews1.html](http://www.mppa.org/mppa/1996/html/spotnews1.html) There were less than 40 Klansmen there but 300 anti-Klan protestors and a necessary strong pilice presence. Several people got arrested and since that day there have been numerous protests and little sidewalk-chalk campaigns bemoaning the fact that anti-racists are being oppressed in Ann Arbor. So to answer your question, yes, it happens elsewhere. I feel about this incident the same way I feel about the OP: It doesn’t matter how noble your intentions, when you deliberately stir up trouble, you will need be dealt with. If you create a disturbance and put people in danger, than you need to be removed from the street. I don’t care how sympathetic your cause is or if you do it in the name of “fighting hate”. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/35 "2002-04-21T22:02:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*Daoloth wrote: > > Unfortunately, the way this message board’s software works, once you change your signature it’s changed in ALL messages you’ve ever posted. So now ALL of Komsomol’s messages end with “Let the revolution begin!”. > > Since I just now found this thread, can you tell me what Komsomol’s signature USED TO say? \*\* It was someting like: “Comrades, let us go forth”-Stalin ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/36 "2002-04-21T22:11:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Daoloth \* > \*\* > > It was someting like: > > “Comrades, let us go forth”-Stalin \*\* It was more like: “Comrades over the top, and the world is ours.” -Stalin ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/37 "2002-04-21T23:20:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Komsomol \* > Muslims: Why are we so reserved to them? Because in this country, the USA, we don’t lock people in Gulags because their ideas are unpopular or diferent. ---
**Author:** ![Jonny\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9f8e36/32.png) [@Jonny\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonny_T)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/38 "2002-04-21T23:31:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\* > > But at what price? What kind of job, education, or healthcare? > > A biased, slanted education, no imagination or freedom to be your own person. Living in constant fear. > A job in a factory or a coal mine. \*\* Meh…not to be picky, but we have state-funded education and healthcare in the UK and don’t seem to be doing too badly. Communism is great until people come along and cock it up. Jonny T. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/39 "2002-04-22T00:32:12Z")
Well, d’uh, we have state funded education in the states, and I’m all for state funded healthcare. However, in a COMMUNIST system, this is how that education would go. I’m a SOCIALIST. I’m not a COMMUNIST. There is a difference, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812/40 "2002-04-22T03:09:04Z")
One difference **Johnny T** is that if I visit your country and have health problems I am pretty much in a bind. If you visit the U.S. we’ll take care of you and worry about settling the bill later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muslims-why-are-we-so-reserved-to-them/104812.md?page=3)