# Must the POTUS and/or the VPOTUS be civilians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 27, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819 "2013-04-27T03:49:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/21 "2013-04-28T11:36:20Z")
Didn’t Washington get hauled out of retirement by President Adams to lead the army? Seems he was technically never taken off the retired list. Perhaps not an issue if he worked for free? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/22 "2013-04-28T13:45:22Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > While there is a statutory bar to a military officer running for president, I am not aware of a constitutional prohibition on someone who is active duty military holding the office. Is there really? It was only the mention of Grant that made me think of the obvious example: [Gen. George B. McClellan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._McClellan#The_1864_Presidential_election): > [@](#): > > McClellan was nominated by the Democrats to run against Abraham Lincoln in the 1864 U.S. presidential election. Following the example of Winfield Scott, he ran as a U.S. Army general still on active duty; he did not resign his commission until election day, November 8, 1864. Which also brings up [Winfield Scott](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winfield_Scott#Politics) as well: > [@](#): > > Seeking to repeat their electoral success, the Whigs pushed Fillmore aside and nominated Major General Winfield Scott, who faced Democrat Franklin Pierce. > … > Despite his faltering in the election, Scott was still a wildly popular national hero. In 1855, by a special act of Congress, Scott was given a brevet promotion to the rank of lieutenant general, making him only the second person in U.S. military history, after George Washington, to hold that rank. > … > When the Civil War began in the spring of 1861, Scott was 74 years old and suffering numerous health problems, including gout and dropsy. He was also extremely overweight and unable to mount a horse or review troops. As he could not lead an army into battle, he offered the command of the Federal army to Colonel Robert E. Lee on April 17, 1861 (Scott referred to Lee as “the very finest soldier I’ve ever seen”). However, when Virginia left the Union on that same day, Lee resigned and the command of the Federal field forces defending Washington, D.C. passed to Brigadier General Irvin McDowell. Although he was born and raised in Virginia, Scott remained loyal to the nation that he had served for most of his life and refused to resign his commission upon his home state’s secession. > … > Maj. Gen. George B. McClellan, the field commander, was anxious for Scott to be pushed aside; political pressure from McClellan’s supporters in Congress led to Scott’s resignation on November 1, 1861. McClellan then succeeded him as general-in-chief.[34] Although officially retired, Scott was still occasionally consulted by Lincoln for strategic advice during the war. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/23 "2013-04-28T14:55:08Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Is there really? It was only the mention of Grant that made me think of the obvious example: [Gen. George B. McClellan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._McClellan#The_1864_Presidential_election):Which also brings up [Winfield Scott](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winfield_Scott#Politics) as well: Holding a government job used to be considered a political duty. Government employees were not only allowed, but were expected, to campaign for their party’s nominees. It was reforms of the Progressive era that tried to create a politically neutral civil service and enacted laws which restricted how government employees could influence elections. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/24 "2013-04-28T17:59:43Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the obvious: Dwight Eisenhower. Post #9. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/25 "2013-04-28T23:47:53Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Didn’t Washington get hauled out of retirement by President Adams to lead the army? Seems he was technically never taken off the retired list. Perhaps not an issue if he worked for free? We didn’t have a standing army then, and he had to be commissioned again in any event. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/26 "2013-04-29T01:33:34Z")
> [@destry](#): > > Did I just miss it, or is it in another part of the constitution, or does it not exist? Article 2, Section 1. “The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.” In other words, the only federal or state job a President can have, is being President. Not military officer, civil service employee, member of Congress or anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/27 "2013-04-29T01:49:02Z")
But couldn’t that problem be met by having the President irrevocably renounce the military salary for the duration of his term? If not, then the Presidency would be barred to anyone who has either a federal or state pension at the time they seek election. For instance, was Ronald Reagan eligible for a pension from California for his service as governor, when he was elected at age 69? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/28 "2013-04-29T02:15:20Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > For instance, was Ronald Reagan eligible for a pension from California for his service as governor, when he was elected at age 69? Yes, and [at least](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=sFQvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HMwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1282%2C3863345) [two](http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/29/us/constitution-is-cited-as-bar-to-pension-for-reagan.html) groups complained that it was unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/29 "2013-04-29T03:59:55Z")
The traditional position of the White House has been that pensions do not constitute an “emolument.” I don’t think the precise definition has ever really been tested. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/30 "2013-04-29T12:47:28Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But couldn’t that problem be met by having the President irrevocably renounce the military salary for the duration of his term? Well, except for the part about\* current \* regulation not allowing active-duty personnel to run and serve in elected political positions, or to remain in active status but unpaid and off-duty while detached to hold an elected political position. A military (wo)man this day can transition to reserves or go into retirement , whichever was eligible, by the start of Primary Season, and not have to bother with exotic workarounds. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/31 "2013-04-29T13:16:42Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The traditional position of the White House has been that pensions do not constitute an “emolument.” I don’t think the precise definition has ever really been tested. In the usage of the time, emolument was basically a synonym for compensation as we’d use the term today: wages/salary and incidentals. So a pension probably wouldn’t qualify. Sure, it’s a payment for work done, but the point is that it had already long since vested by the time he became POTUS. He didn’t have to do anything to receive it. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@Bob\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_X)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819/32 "2013-04-30T17:38:16Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Is there really? It was only the mention of Grant that made me think of the obvious example: [Gen. George B. McClellan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._McClellan#The_1864_Presidential_election):Which also brings up [Winfield Scott](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winfield_Scott#Politics) as well: You are completely forgetting the even more obvious case of Zachary Taylor, who WON. (He didn’t even know he was running until late in the race: the letter from the Whig convention telling him he was nominated arrived postage due, and he sent it back.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/must-the-potus-and-or-the-vpotus-be-civilians/656819.md?page=1)