# Mutually annoying sayings in the Anglosphere? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 31, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762 "2016-03-31T17:52:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/41 "2016-04-02T12:52:00Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > How do you feel about “different than?” > > FTR the correct answer is ‘Kill it! Kill it with fire!’ I use “different than” as well. “Different to” is the only phrase that pains me. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/42 "2016-04-02T12:52:16Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It vaguely bothers me that Brits call dead batteries _flat_, as if they were tires. Er, tyres. I can see why our “flat” usage here, would seem weird to you folks. I have no quarrel with your “dead”, for batteries – would reckon it to make more sense than “flat”, for as much as that might be worth. > [@](#): > > I recently learned that “to waffle”, which means to be undecided about something in the US, means to blather on about something to Brits. Doesn’t really bother me, but is a bit odd. > > “Britist Left Waffles on Falkland Islands” is therefore triply ambiguous. An interesting parallel to the above, within Britain: the word “haver”. This word originated in the Scots variant of English, where it means to talk nonsense. English speakers of English latched on to it to mean: to vacillate or be unable to make one’s mind up – what with its sounding and looking like a cross between “hover” and “waver”. In England, “haver” is quite widely used in this, strictly wrong, sense: a thing to which Scottish people’s reactions are on a scale from irritation, to actual rage. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/43 "2016-04-02T13:48:22Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > We’ll start calling it aluminium when you start calling it platinium. I blame Davy. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/44 "2016-04-02T16:57:06Z")
I am more than happy to order a pop in a restaurant but there’s another American regionalism that drives me nuts…or nuttier. If your washing machine is broken, then it needs to be fixed or needs fixing. It doesn’t “need fixed.” Your laundry needs to be done or needs doing…it doesn’t “need done.” Now that it’s spring the grass needs cutting or needs to be cut…not “needs cut.” I am a lifelong Midwesterner but had never heard this sentence construction before moving to the St Louis area and it grates on my ears like a scratchy…uh…stuck record. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/45 "2016-04-02T20:51:58Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > I can see why our “flat” usage here, would seem weird to you folks. I have no quarrel with your “dead”, for batteries – would reckon it to make more sense than “flat”, for as much as that might be worth. I think I don’t like it because it ruins my mental imagery: instead of an image of an anthropomorphic AA cell clutching its chest and toppling over; “flat” conjures up a slowly deflating cell, maybe with a slight wheezing sound. Less compelling. > [@Sangahyando](#): > > An interesting parallel to the above, within Britain: the word “haver”. This word originated in the Scots variant of English, where it means to talk nonsense. English speakers of English latched on to it to mean: to vacillate or be unable to make one’s mind up – what with its sounding and looking like a cross between “hover” and “waver”. In England, “haver” is quite widely used in this, strictly wrong, sense: a thing to which Scottish people’s reactions are on a scale from irritation, to actual rage. Huh, interesting! So a false etymology led to a difference in meaning. I think I can see how the American use of waffle evolved from the British one. Talking too much about a subject, covering all your bases (on one hand blah blah, but on the other hand blah blah blah), could be seen as indecisive. Make up your mind and argue for one position instead of saying too much about all points of view. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2016, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/46 "2016-04-03T08:30:05Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I think I can see how the American use of waffle evolved from the British one. Talking too much about a subject, covering all your bases (on one hand blah blah, but on the other hand blah blah blah), could be seen as indecisive. Make up your mind and argue for one position instead of saying too much about all points of view. Reminds me of the briliant but often impractical guy in the novel by S.M. Stirling, who “could ‘on the one hand / on the other hand’ himself into paralysis” – and frequently did. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/47 "2016-04-03T12:40:46Z")
The language is “English”. Therefore all Americanisms are _wrong_. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/48 "2016-04-03T14:19:55Z")
The English forfeit their claim to the language whenever they say “The committee are meeting” or “Arsenal rule”. Even BBC announcers apparently don’t learn proper English in school. Hmmph! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/49 "2016-04-03T15:13:52Z")
> [@nicky](#): > > The language is “English”. Therefore all Americanisms are _wrong_. Actually, what’s wrong is the now-archaic name. Calling it “American” would be more accurate. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/50 "2016-04-03T15:17:09Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > I am more than happy to order a pop in a restaurant but there’s another American regionalism that drives me nuts…or nuttier. If your washing machine is broken, then it needs to be fixed or needs fixing. It doesn’t “need fixed.” Your laundry needs to be done or needs doing…it doesn’t “need done.” Now that it’s spring the grass needs cutting or needs to be cut…not “needs cut.” I am a lifelong Midwesterner but had never heard this sentence construction before moving to the St Louis area and it grates on my ears like a scratchy…uh…stuck record. I’m originally from the west coast & lived in St. Louis for 20 years. I’d only very occasionally hear that construction. Although I agree it sounds ignorant as all get out. From previous threads we’ve established that idiom is really more of a PA / OH-ism that has recently leaked some distance away. STL is about the farthest southwestern outpost of it and is not (yet) much infected by it. ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/51 "2016-04-03T18:12:48Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > I am more than happy to order a pop in a restaurant but there’s another American regionalism that drives me nuts…or nuttier. If your washing machine is broken, then it needs to be fixed or needs fixing. It doesn’t “need fixed.” Your laundry needs to be done or needs doing…it doesn’t “need done.” Now that it’s spring the grass needs cutting or needs to be cut…not “needs cut.” I am a lifelong Midwesterner but had never heard this sentence construction before moving to the St Louis area and it grates on my ears like a scratchy…uh…stuck record. Oh yes!!! I moved to central Illinois and heard it for the first time. Even after living there for over 25 years it grated on me, but it’s so common there that nobody else blinks at it. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/52 "2016-04-04T11:58:34Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > The English forfeit their claim to the language whenever they say “The committee are meeting” or “Arsenal rule”. Even BBC announcers apparently don’t learn proper English in school. Hmmph! Weirdly, you seemed to have picked up one that follows the US style. “The committee is meeting” would, in my experience, be the used one in the UK. And surely “Arsenal Rules” would be more likely? ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/53 "2016-04-04T22:21:16Z")
I’ve heard BBC announcers say things like “The committee are meeting” and “England are playing India in a cricket test” often enough to think it’s in their style book. And I’ve seen many instances of “Arsenal Rule” chalked or painted on walls in England. I couldn’t find any pictures of graffiti, but [here’s a team poster](http://www.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/p/keep-calm-because-arsenal-rule-5/). I’ve never seen “Arsenal Rules”. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/54 "2016-04-05T14:06:19Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > I’ve heard BBC announcers say things like “The committee are meeting” and “England are playing India in a cricket test” often enough to think it’s in their style book. And I’ve seen many instances of “Arsenal Rule” chalked or painted on walls in England. I couldn’t find any pictures of graffiti, but [here’s a team poster](http://www.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/p/keep-calm-because-arsenal-rule-5/). I’ve never seen “Arsenal Rules”. Well here’s Parliament, whilst discussing how a Committee will look into the BBC Charter, using the “is” form: [http://www.parliament.uk/hlcomms-charter-renewal](http://www.parliament.uk/hlcomms-charter-renewal) > [@](#): > > The Committee is to conduct an inquiry into the public purposes of the BBC and the mechanism by which the licence fee is set. Note that I said that “The committee is” is “one that follows the US style”. I never argued that the likes of sports teams and bands don’t use “are”. I’m a Brit, this is how I speak. I’m quite aware of it. And here’s some “Arsenal Rules” from exactly the same website that you used: > **[Keep Calm and Carry On](https://afit.co/keep-calm?utm_source=kc&utm_medium=redirect)** > > On closing the Keep Calm-o-Matic. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/55 "2016-04-05T14:10:23Z")
And here’s a Google search to a whole bevy of examples of the BBC using “The committee is” on their own website: > **[Google](https://www.google.se/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=%22the+committee+is%22+uk+bbc)** > > Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/56 "2016-04-06T02:56:50Z")
Well, it looks to me that we’re both right and both wrong. Here’s what [Oxford Dictionary](http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/09/agreement-over-collective-nouns/) says about it: > [@](#): > > The British view… > > However, the verb form used can depend on the emphasis of the sentence, and accepted regional usage, so no wonder many people are confused. In British English it’s absolutely fine to treat most collective nouns as either singular or plural – you can say my husband’s family is very religious or my husband’s family are very religious. And here’s what a [BBC page on “Learning English”](http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv358.shtml) says: > [@](#): > > Collective nouns refer to groups of people usually. Our choice of singular or plural verb form often depends on whether we are thinking of the group as an impersonal unit (in which case we use the singular verb - and relative pronoun which) or as a collection of individuals (in which case we use the plural verb form - and relative pronoun who). Compare the following: > > My family, who have lived on this island all their lives, are determined to remain here. > > The team who are playing this weekend includes neither of the new signings. The team which lies third from the bottom of the league will also be relegated this year. > > The human resources committee is going to meet on Thursday. They will endorse all promotions from grade C to grade B for the coming year. > > My firm, which was established in 1932, has been manufacturing motor mowers since the 1950s. They look after me very well and have an excellent pension scheme. I was taught that a singular noun, even a collective noun like “committee” or “team”, gets the singular form of verb, period, full stop, end of story. But it appears that the Powers That Be don’t share the same exactitude as my teachers. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/57 "2016-04-06T08:04:26Z")
As I said, “Committee” is a rare one that generally follows the American English form. That’s really all it was, being amused that of all the possible choices you went with you chose one of the very, very few that doesn’t follow the British rule. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/58 "2016-04-06T13:52:16Z")
Am I the only one who’s hearing the OP said in Hugh Gran’ts voice?😛 Off hand I can’t think of any Brit or Oz slang that annoys me; I love you all. I do notice that Brits do not like to use the French pronunciation of words like garage and massage and herb. I half jokingly accused a group of my English friends of hating the French so much they don’t even want to say words they way they do. Nobody denied it. But seriously, what’s that all about? ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/59 "2016-04-06T14:37:55Z")
The aluminum/aluminium thing bugs me, but the other one that launches me metaphorically into the stratosphere is “My point being…” Gaaarrgh! Literally. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762/60 "2016-04-06T15:09:39Z")
I don’t think anyone has yet mentioned “in hospital” vs American “in \*the \*hospital”. On one hand I don’t know why the former sounds weird to me. We say “in jail”, not “in \*the \*jail”, as if there’s only one jail. So, I can’t say it’s grammatically wrong or anything, it just seems a bit awkward. And now that I’ve gotten started despite what I said earlier, “on holiday” feels a little fusty. Finally (not really; I’ll probably think of more) what kind of nonsense is using"fancy dress" for “costume”?To sensible ears, fancy dress means formal or “dressy” and “costume” is what one where’s on Halloween (and not to go swimming in". I lied before; I’ve got a lot of problems with you people and now you’re going to hear about it 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mutually-annoying-sayings-in-the-anglosphere/750762.md?page=4)