# My 89 year old father is still making lease payments on two rotary phones! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 15, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560 "2014-08-15T00:30:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/21 "2014-08-15T19:21:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If the customer said, “hey, I don’t want this anymore” and the phone company refuses to cancel the lease, sure. If the customer blindly sends a check every month, not the company’s fault. Yes, it is the company’s fault. They are knowingly taking advantage of people I know about this. My grandmother, who died a few years back at the age of 99, was in the same boat. I knew she had antiquated phones in her home, but I had no idea they were still owned by the phone company until her eyesight got poor enough so that she asked for help with her bills (she was still sharp as a tack, but couldn’t see well enough to read anymore). The phone company _knows_ that there are plenty of elderly people who have had their phones since the days when you had to lease them from the phone company, and _knows_ that some of them are unaware either that they can buy their own phones now (maybe because, like my grandmother, their English isn’t that great and they have a tough time dealing with customer service people over the telephone), or that replacing a phone is a trivial undertaking, like another grandparent, who didn’t replace his phones because he thought that would mean he’d have a new phone number, and he didn’t want to change his number (I wouldn’t be surprised if the phone company at least encouraged this belief so they could keep leasing his phones to him). The phone companies are flat out stealing from these people. They’re cheating them. It should be illegal. The FCC, or whoever regulates this stuff, should see that (a) those elderly people who still have leased phones be given those phones and (b) be given a refund of everything they paid over, say, 200% of the value of the phone. Thieving bastards. **Dr. Drake** says he’s no expert in business ethics – you know what? The idea of “business ethics” is bullshit. Ethics is ethics. Ripping off old, easily confused people is wrong. It’s stealing. The ethics of it aren’t different because a business does it. It’s no different from those con men who will repave your driveway with some “extra” blacktop left over from a job in the neighborhood, and then just spray oil on it. It’s a con, no matter who’s doing it. Just because a business has shareholders and officers and so on doesn’t make it any better than your garden-variety scam artist. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/22 "2014-08-15T19:24:43Z")
[http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2006-09-14-phone\_x.htm](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2006-09-14-phone_x.htm) > **[Hundreds Of Thousands Of People Are Still Renting Home Phones](https://consumerist.com/2012/04/30/hundreds-of-thousands-of-people-are-still-leasing-their-home-phones/)** > > While many of us are ditching landlines in favor of wireless, a large portion of the country still has some sort of terrestrial home phone. But what’s surprising is just how many folks out th… Happens more than you would think. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/23 "2014-08-15T19:36:07Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > How much is the lease and how much do you really want to deal with the phone company? If it’s just a few dollars it’s probably not worth the hassle of calling them up and dealing with it. Just ride it out and when you cancel the service someday hopefully that’ll be the end of it, but if they do attempt to send any kind of final bill or ask for the phones back tell them they can attempt to collect them from “the estate”, but I’d just ignore it. When you cancel the service don’t give them your phone number or address and they shouldn’t have any way to contact you to attempt to collect the debt and they’ll probably give up relatively easily. In my state, an executor is legally bound to settle ALL debts which they know exist, and to perform “due diligence” in investigating and settling any debts they suspect exist. To not do so is either misdemeanor or felony fraud, depending upon the amount involved. So if the law is similar in his estate, and he becomes the executor, it’s not good advice to duck the debt. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/24 "2014-08-15T19:37:28Z")
Good old Ma Bell. I remember now why she was hated so much. Leasing phones, charging extra for touchtone, charging extra for 2 phones. Ma Bell ruled with an iron fist for a long time. It took a [10 year court battle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._AT%26T) to bring her down. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/25 "2014-08-15T20:13:14Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > [USATODAY.com - Woman paid thousands to rent rotary phone](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2006-09-14-phone_x.htm) > [Hundreds Of Thousands Of People Are Still Renting Home Phones – Consumerist](http://consumerist.com/2012/04/30/hundreds-of-thousands-of-people-are-still-leasing-their-home-phones/) > > Happens more than you would think. Amazing. From the USA Today story: > [@](#): > > The number of customers leasing phones dropped from 40 million nationwide to about 750,000 today, said John Skalko, spokesman for Murray Hill, N.J.-based Lucent Technologies, a spinoff of AT&T that manages the residential leasing service. Three quarters of a million phones. This isn’t a phone company, it’s organized crime. The head of whatever division of the compan(ies) that’s responsible for this should be in prison. It would cost them not one goddamn penny to just give ownership of those phones to the people who have been paying the bills for years. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/26 "2014-08-15T20:34:46Z")
A standard AT&T phone at Walmart is 20 bucks, A trim style is $5.77 or $10. [http://www.walmart.com/ip/AT-T-Corded-Telephone-With-Caller-ID-Call-Waiting-And-Speakerphone/10992508](http://www.walmart.com/ip/AT-T-Corded-Telephone-With-Caller-ID-Call-Waiting-And-Speakerphone/10992508) [http://www.walmart.com/ip/Vtech-CD1103-WH-Trimstyle-Telephone-White/16472544](http://www.walmart.com/ip/Vtech-CD1103-WH-Trimstyle-Telephone-White/16472544) [http://www.walmart.com/ip/AT-T-Black-Trimline-Phone-TL-210/10038409?action=product\_interest&action\_type=title&placement\_id=irs\_top&strategy=PWVUB&visitor\_id=86699484199&category=0%3A3944%3A546952%3A1070964%3A3977%3A77478&client\_guid=27b74915-37b8-4382-b765-602a68404f81&config\_id=2&parent\_item\_id=16472544&guid=d292c781-3e03-4dfb-9a06-c5fff3a3af51&bucket\_id=irsbucketdefault&findingMethod=p13n](http://www.walmart.com/ip/AT-T-Black-Trimline-Phone-TL-210/10038409?action=product_interest&action_type=title&placement_id=irs_top&strategy=PWVUB&visitor_id=86699484199&category=0%3A3944%3A546952%3A1070964%3A3977%3A77478&client_guid=27b74915-37b8-4382-b765-602a68404f81&config_id=2&parent_item_id=16472544&guid=d292c781-3e03-4dfb-9a06-c5fff3a3af51&bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&findingMethod=p13n) I find it incredible anyone is leasing a phone in 2014. ---
**Author:** ![wedgehed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/27 "2014-08-15T21:10:31Z")
I called QLT today. After going thru the menu dance & being on hold for 15 minutes, I finally got thru to a customer rep. I explained the situation & told the guy that this had to end. He told me to disregard the latest bill & that he would send a cancelation notice. My dad has had the same phone number since 1958. I guess it was just ingrained in my parents to pay the phone lease. Thanks for the responses. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/28 "2014-08-16T02:10:45Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > The idea of “business ethics” is bullshit. “Business ethics” has become an oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/29 "2014-08-16T04:11:04Z")
My grandmother had an old rotary phone up in her bedroom AND a regular touch tone phone in her living room. (Although it probably still had the rotory dialing system on it) Lord knows why. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/30 "2014-08-17T00:47:17Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > My grandmother had an old rotary phone up in her bedroom AND a regular touch tone phone in her living room. (Although it probably still had the rotory dialing system on it) Lord knows why. Probably so she could have calls in her bedroom AND in her living room, depending on what suited her when the call was made. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/31 "2014-08-17T01:13:50Z")
My mother doesn’t throw out things that aren’t broken. She just stopped using a computer she has had since 1984, because she couldn’t get it repaired anymore (she basically used it for word processing and the household budget). She has a rotary dial phone in her bedroom that she has had for pretty much my whole lifetime, which means since 1967, more or less. She also has a phone in the kitchen with a built-in, digital answering machine. She has a landline, and no voicemail service. She has a prepaid tracfone, but only turns it on when she needs to make a call; it’s probably ten years old, and she doesn’t know how to use the text function. I asked her once if she still leased the rotary desktop phone, hoping she wouldn’t ask me what I was talking about. Turned out that when Bell broke up, my parents switched long distance carriers to one with a better deal for their area, and they got a notice that they could no longer lease the phone; they had to buy it or return it. They bought it. They had a touch-tone phone in the kitchen, which they also bought. That one died, and they bought a cordless phone-- my father wanted one, but my mother never liked it. I have no idea what happened to it. She may have left it in the house when she sold it after my father died. I’m sure she didn’t throw it out, though, not if it worked. She also still has a VCR and a record player. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/32 "2014-08-17T13:56:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If the customer said, “hey, I don’t want this anymore” and the phone company refuses to cancel the lease, sure. If the customer blindly sends a check every month, not the company’s fault. “Not my fault” isn’t really a relevant retort to a claim of being unethical. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/33 "2014-08-18T00:01:39Z")
My mom’s aunt was in this situation … just paying the bills for decades without remembering what they were for. When my mom discovered it, she called the phone company and reported it. The phone company suggested she return the phones, and my mom said they were long gone and suggested the phone company accept the enormous amount of money they’d already received as payment in full, and not try to get any more from an old woman. They sheepishly agreed. ---
**Author:** ![buckgully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@buckgully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buckgully)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/34 "2014-08-18T00:22:37Z")
You might want to make sure dad’s not still paying for an AOL subscription: > **[2.34 million people are still paying AOL 20 bucks a month](https://www.theverge.com/2014/8/6/5975591/2-34-million-people-are-still-paying-aol-20-bucks-a-month)** > > The Verge is about technology and how it makes us feel. Founded in 2011, we offer our audience everything from breaking news to reviews to award-winning features and investigations, on our site, in video, and in podcasts. ---
**Author:** ![PorchePine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@PorchePine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PorchePine)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/35 "2014-08-18T04:21:26Z")
Back in the 90s, we discovered that a relative was in the same situation. They actually still had the phones, but when we tried to return them were told “the phone company doesn’t lease phones anymore.” \>DUH!\< ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/36 "2014-08-18T04:31:22Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Probably so she could have calls in her bedroom AND in her living room, depending on what suited her when the call was made. What I meant was, why keep the old rotary, if she knew she could just buy a phone, and not pay to rent the old one? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/37 "2014-08-19T11:42:14Z")
I’m with **RNATB** on this one - businesses should be under no obligation to cancel contracts of their own volition. There are a few problems with this, such as where you draw the line, the costs that would incur, the fact that some people may still be using the phones. It’s up to the consumer to change the agreement should they wish to. It’s only unethical if you called the phone company to try to cancel the lease and they spun some line about you having to change your phone number in that case (or some other bullshit designed to get you to stay). My parents (far from elderly at the time) had a similar sort of situation with their old TV. They first got a TV together in the early 80s, when apparently TVs could be quite unreliable and not last very long. As such they rented a set (which of course worked perfectly for 20 years), but never got round to replacing it when TVs became cheap and reliable. I worked out they had spent something like £1,600 renting this TV! Was the rental company wrong to let this go on? No, they were providing an agreed service for an agreed price. If there was some clause that you got to keep the TV after x years, the price would have gone up for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/38 "2014-08-19T11:52:26Z")
This thread reminded me of that fact my mom asks people using VOIP if their line is breaking up because they are subscribed to a party line. Bet you have to google it 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/39 "2014-08-19T12:02:12Z")
Google what? VOIP? ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560/40 "2014-08-19T13:59:01Z")
**Grude** , I googled your mom and , well, … We should talk. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-89-year-old-father-is-still-making-lease-payments-on-two-rotary-phones/695560.md?page=1)