# My (admittedly uneducated, and short) case for why Jesus was the Son of God **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 28, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927 "2022-10-28T16:39:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/161 "2022-11-06T07:17:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > …and totally not worth worshipping. Well I mean what is the point of worshipping a deity in the first place? It is just doing its job. Do you worship the chef, in hopes that dinner will be really good? And if the country song is correct, “_Og answers every prayer – sometimes the answer is ‘no’_” then what the hell do you gain from the relationship? Some vague notion that you will not be tormented for eternity, if Og arbitrarily decides you are OK to some live in his kingdom-of-eternal-boredom? Just read about that father of jesus. What an asshole. At least the Prince of Darkness never actually murdered anyone just for the sake of being a dick. The Bible provides a strong case in favor of Satanism. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/162 "2022-11-06T20:01:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The parts about dead people coming back to life? Those I don’t believe. I can accept it if they were _mostly_ dead. Medical science being what it was (virtually non-existent) it was sadly all to easy to assume someone was dead when they really were not. > [@Voyager](#): > > The point is that if all the information we had about George Washington was from Weems’ biography, we’d have reason to be suspicious of everything because of the clearly impossible stuff he inserted. So what “clearly impossible” stuff is in the NT? Most of the miracles can be done by faith healers today. There is even medical science behind such cures. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/163 "2022-11-06T20:07:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So what “clearly impossible” stuff is in the NT? Most of the miracles can be done by faith healers today. There is even medical science behind such cures. Really? When a faith healer restores a missing limb, get back to me. That would be a miracle, not fakers throwing away their crutches and remissions. I had a badly swollen disk in my back (I have the MRI) shrink by itself. My doctor said it was too big to do that. No Jesus, no prayer. There are the other miracles, but National Lampoon’s “Not the Bible” had ways of faking them. Do you believe the zombies walked in Jerusalem? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/164 "2022-11-06T20:07:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So what “clearly impossible” stuff is in the NT? Most of the miracles can be done by faith healers today. There is even medical science behind such cures. Nope, no faith healer will cure a psychotic/schizophrenic person (which the “possessed” in the gospels most probably were) by laying their hands on them and mumbling stuff. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/165 "2022-11-06T20:08:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So what “clearly impossible” stuff is in the NT? Most of the miracles can be done by faith healers today. As presented in the Gospels: the loaves-and-fishes miracle, transforming water into wine, and walking on water, to name three. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/166 "2022-11-06T20:18:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > When a faith healer restores a missing limb, get back to me. Chapter and Verse for that one? > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Nope, no faith healer will cure a psychotic/schizophrenic person (which the “possessed” in the gospels most probably were) by laying their hands on them and mumbling stuff. > **[Exorcisms and Psychology: What’s Really Going On? - GoodTherapy.org Therapy Blog](https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychology-exorcism-demonic-possession-0308137)** > > The ancient practice of exorcism, which has serious roots in many religions and cultures, has spawned as many movies as it has skeptics. What's real and what isn't? No one knows for sure, but several mental health issues have been associated with... _Some exorcism advocates insist that exorcism works. And it very well may. People undergoing exorcisms may enter hypnotic trances, during which time they may be much more suggestible, which means their behavior may later change. The dramatic ritual of an exorcism can also be cathartic for some deeply religious people, and may inspire a change in behavior or personality._ [https://www.shsu.edu/~piic/winter2008/Thomason.html](https://www.shsu.edu/~piic/winter2008/Thomason.html) _Clearly, it is possible that people who believe themselves to be possessed by a demon may benefit in the short run from an exorcism ritual. The ritual could work as a placebo treatment, resulting in the patient feeling calmer for a while (Cuneo, 2001). B_ > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > As presented in the Gospels: the loaves-and-fishes miracle, transforming water into wine, and walking on water, to name three. Mass hysteria. > **[Jesus walking on water](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_walking_on_water)** > > Jesus walking on the water, or on the sea, is recorded as one of the miracles of Jesus recounted in the New Testament. There are accounts of this event in three Gospels—Matthew, Mark, and John—but it is not included in the Gospel of Luke. This story, following the miracle of the feeding of the five thousand, tells how Jesus sent the disciples by ship back to the "other side" of the Sea of Galilee (the western side) while he remained behind, alone, to pray. Night fell and the sea arose as the ship... _Some scholars have held the view that while this event took place, it was not miraculous: [Albert Schweitzer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Schweitzer), for example, suggested that the disciples saw Jesus walking on the shore, but were confused by high wind and darkness;_ ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/167 "2022-11-06T20:26:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Mass hysteria. That’s fine as a logical explanation for why they’re written in the Gospels as such, but the Bible presents such “clearly impossible” feats as factual things that Jesus did, and as evidence of his divine power. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/168 "2022-11-06T20:33:46Z")
biblical miracles are a clear case of _post hoc ergo propter hoc_ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/169 "2022-11-06T20:37:22Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > That’s fine as a logical explanation for why they’re written in the Gospels as such, but the Bible presents such “clearly impossible” feats as factual things that Jesus did, and as evidence of his divine power. I am not trying to make anyone believe in Jesus the divine being. I am what many would call either a Doubting Christian or even an agnostic. But for some reason, people treat the Gospels as so much fiction (despite the evidence that they are about as reliable as anything from that period- which is not 100% by any means) and atheists keep trying to push the idea that _Jesus the man_ did not exist. If you choose to either believe or disbelieve that Jesus was the Son of God- fine. That is a matter of belief, not fact. No doubt that Jesus was a legendary figure and as such myths could have cropped up even in the comparatively short time from His death to the Gospels. But most of the miracles were pretty small time for that age of miracles, messiahs and miracle workers. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/170 "2022-11-06T21:33:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > and atheists keep trying to push the idea that _Jesus the man_ did not exist. Pretty much a strawman. Most atheists I know argue that we don’t know enough about the situation to say one way or another-he could be a single person whose history was puffed up beyond all recognition by followers with their own agenda, he could be an amalgamation of several wanderers of the time, his life could be a perfect example of a game of “Telephone”-We don’t know and, until some solid info comes in, we have no way of knowing. Atheists, for the most part, don’t do the “make the conclusion, then accept evidence that supports the conclusion” thing. That is more a game played by religionists. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/171 "2022-11-06T21:39:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No doubt that Jesus was a legendary figure and as such myths could have cropped up even in the comparatively short time from His death to the Gospels. But most of the miracles were pretty small time for that age of miracles, messiahs and miracle workers. I don’t know how “legendary” he was during his lifetime and it could be that, once his followers heard rumors of miracles and such, they would quickly claim that “Jesus did it too, only better!”. This is a pattern seen in religion where a god starts out as a local phenomenon then, through time, grows into the be-all and end-all “GOD” that leaves room for no other. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyEcks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnnyecks/32/18197_2.png) [@JohnnyEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyEcks)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/172 "2022-11-06T22:55:14Z")
How about the wholesale resurrection of the dead? > **[Matthew 27:52](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_27:52)** > > Matthew 27:52 is the fifty-second verse of the twenty-seventh chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament. This verse describes some of the events that occurred upon death of Jesus, particularly the report that tombs broke open and the saints inside were resurrected. > The original Koine Greek, according to Westcott and Hort, reads: > In the King James Version of the Bible, it is translated as: > The modern World English Bible translates the passage as: Problematic and thus seldom mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/173 "2022-11-07T00:41:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Chapter and Verse for that one? That was a response to your claim that faith healers do miracles today. Though raising from the dead is another thing faith healers don’t do, though I realize that you’d have to prove Lazarus was dead. Faith healers don’t do miracles. Faith healers are scammers. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/174 "2022-11-07T00:46:03Z")
> [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > Problematic and thus seldom mentioned. That’s what I was referring to when I mentioned zombies. > [@DrDeth](#): > > But for some reason, people treat the Gospels as so much fiction (despite the evidence that they are about as reliable as anything from that period- which is not 100% by any means) and atheists keep trying to push the idea that _Jesus the man_ did not exist. Atheists I listen to mostly say either that there is no solid evidence he did exist, but not that he didn’t, or that the claim that a person of his name did exist then is not extraordinary in any way. The supernatural claims are. There are the mythicists, but they seem to be in the minority. By a lot. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/175 "2022-11-07T01:45:43Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Faith healers don’t do miracles. Faith healers are scammers. Not entirely. The benefits of both the placebo effect and the value of a caring “provider” are both well known to medical science. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/176 "2022-11-07T01:51:39Z")
Faith healers are NOT caring providers. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/177 "2022-11-07T01:53:42Z")
Exactly. They are charlatans who often reinforce the delusions and increase the mental health issues of their victims. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/178 "2022-11-07T03:28:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I can accept it if they were _mostly_ dead. Medical science being what it was (virtually non-existent) it was sadly all to easy to assume someone was dead when they really were not. So you’re saying we shouldn’t believe the Gospel writers who said they were really dead? That kind of undermines the argument that we should accept the Gospel writers as reliable sources. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/179 "2022-11-07T15:42:16Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Bible presents such “clearly impossible” feats as factual things that Jesus did, and as evidence of his divine power Not really. In the fifth chapter of Mark the story is told clearly. Mourners are outside of the house. Jesus enters by the back way and finds a young girl who asks for her parents. He has the disciples get the parents and he tells them to care for their daughter and feed her. He then tells them and the disciples not to tell people it’s a miracle. The girl was not dead. The miracle thing is a fabrication that was not promoted by Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927/180 "2022-11-07T15:44:04Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Not really. In the fifth chapter of Mark the story is told clearly. Mourners are outside of the house. Jesus enters by the back way and finds a young girl who asks for her parents. He has the disciples get the parents and he tells them to care for their daughter and feed her. He then tells them and the disciples not to tell people it’s a miracle. The girl was not dead. Except that that miracle wasn’t the sort that I was talking about in my posts. I wasn’t referring to the “heal the sick/resurrect the dead” miracles, but ones like feeding 5000 people with five loaves and two fish, or walking on water. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-admittedly-uneducated-and-short-case-for-why-jesus-was-the-son-of-god/973927.md?page=10)