# My annual Miss America rant **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 21, 2003, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922 "2003-09-21T04:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/41 "2003-09-22T11:21:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kniz \* > \*\*I’m not a big fan either, but from what I saw tonight these were damn smart “beauties”. One of the final 5 had her medical degree at the age of 23. He talent was playing the cello. \*\* May I interject with the question (seeing as this rant is a bit of fizzer anyway)? Is having a medical degree at 23 so unusual? In my (Australian) state, if a kid enters uni out of high school and completes his or her Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery degree without failing or taking time, then they should graduate before their 24th birthday. How does this work overseas? ---
**Author:** ![lilbtagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@lilbtagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilbtagna)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/42 "2003-09-22T12:08:13Z")
In the US, if we enter college right after high school, we’re 18. It takes 4 years to get a bachelor’s degree and then I think another 4 years in medical school, plus a couple more years doing internships and residencies. If all goes well, I’ll be a doctor by the time I’m 28. I must say, I’m pretty impressed with that 23 year old from the pageant. ---
**Author:** ![Keek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Keek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keek)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/43 "2003-09-22T12:17:26Z")
Lezlers, I know other countries have beauty pageants. I’m not sure that other countries award scholarships according to the results though, “sweetheart”. I realise that I sounded rather anti-American. Not intentional - sorry. Are those extremely creepy kiddie beauty shows still popular in the US? Now those ARE weird. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/44 "2003-09-22T13:47:41Z")
I thik beauty pageants are silly. However, the Miss America pageant redistributes a lot of money from big corporations to young students, and that’s a good thing. If these women can get expensive scholarships out of shaking their booties, what’s wrong with that? Nobody seems to have a problem with young men and women getting scholarships for their physical prowess in playing basketball or football or swimming really fast. Using your physical beauty for advantage isn’t any worse than using your sterngth, or your math skills, or your speaking voice, or your interpersonal skills. It’s a gift nature gave you, so use it. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/45 "2003-09-22T14:07:21Z")
Perhaps part of the reason such pageants are annoying is that unattractive women receive a lot of scorn in our society. It’s not just that female beauty is held as a high virtue; the lack of it is seen as a serious flaw. Perhaps a male equivalent would be the “Mr. Moneybags” contest, wherein the man who’d managed to accumulate the greatest wealth was offered something of commensurate value…say…Miss America! ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/46 "2003-09-22T14:29:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fessie \* > \*\*Perhaps part of the reason such pageants are annoying is that unattractive women receive a lot of scorn in our society. It’s not just that female beauty is held as a high virtue; the lack of it is seen as a serious flaw. > > Perhaps a male equivalent would be the “Mr. Moneybags” contest, wherein the man who’d managed to accumulate the greatest wealth was offered something of commensurate value…say…Miss America! \*\* And with that, you’ve hit that nail soundly on the head. _applause_ ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/47 "2003-09-22T14:32:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jennyrosity \* > \*\*Because, stupid, no-one should be going to college if they aren’t smart and can’t get good grades. THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT!!! And no, you shouldn’t get to college beacuse you’re pretty, or because you’re a good athlete, or because Daddy can afford to pay for it. You should go because you’re the best and brightest at your chosen subject. \*\* I sincerely hope you don’t believe what you typed. There are plenty of people who discover their true intellectual abilities in college. I know at least three people who didn’t get good grades in high school (solid C students) who went on to shine in college. You’re not responsible for any decisions regarding college admissions, are you? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/48 "2003-09-22T14:42:36Z")
Does she actually have an MD, or is it some other ‘medical degree’ such as an Associastes degree in Medical Assisting? The term ‘medical degree’ does not indicate that she actually completed a Medical Doctorate program. Searching for “medical degree” I’m finding everything from online ‘medical degree programs’ to 18 month courses, to 5 year courses. So, is she an M.D. or something else? ---
**Author:** ![Jennyrosity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@Jennyrosity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennyrosity)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/49 "2003-09-22T14:47:22Z")
Sorry but in Britain you have to prove you’re intelligent before you get to go to university. There are exceptions, some unis will admit students who don’t get the necessary grades if they had an exceptional interview; or as in my subject, Theatre Studies, in which exam results varied because admission was based more on our acting ability than intellectual capacity. Also, we don’t regard C students with the contempt you apparently do in America - C and above are regarded as “good” grades. I detest the way our education system is coming to resemble yours so closely, but at least we have yet to pay anyone’s way based on their ability to look good in a swimsuit!!! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/50 "2003-09-22T14:49:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fessie \* > \*\*Perhaps part of the reason such pageants are annoying is that unattractive women receive a lot of scorn in our society. It’s not just that female beauty is held as a high virtue; the lack of it is seen as a serious flaw. > > Perhaps a male equivalent would be the “Mr. Moneybags” contest, wherein the man who’d managed to accumulate the greatest wealth was offered something of commensurate value…say…Miss America! \*\* Similarly with the enormous adulation given to high-achieving sportsmen or men with pots of money, which makes the rest of us feel like “failures” and therefore unhappy. So we ought to level the playing field and not give undue attention to these so-called “successes”, but drag everyone down to the point that _I_ don’t feel insecure. Uh-huh. And the “Mr Moneybags” contest, where the “success object” gets to win the “sex object”? Umm… life already works like that, unless I’m very much mistaken. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/51 "2003-09-22T14:54:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > \*\* > And let’s look at the #1 thing they have to do to get that money: > > Is it good grades? No. Lots of women who would never get into a pageant get good grades. > > Is it poise? Personality? No. See above. > > To get the money, recipients must meet America’s standards of beauty. > > Do they have nice firm boobs? Is their ass nice and round, but not too big? Do they fill out a bathing suit well? > > Two thousand and fucking three and the NUMBER ONE organization who gives women scholarship money requires them to **prance around in a fucking swimsuit first!** \*\* Right, so an organization has money to give away, and they decide on the requirements to get the money. Where do you have any room to complain? Do you also get upset at the NAACP because they mainly give scholarships to black people, or at the National Blind Jewish Lesbian Advancement Society because they only give scholarships to blind Jewish lesbians? (🆒 ;j oops, no lesbian smiley) I don’t think that the purpose of the Miss America pageant is to to find the “top 50 female American heroes” or any such nonsense. Rather, the organization has money to give away, so they can give it away to whoever they want to, and I think it’s stupid for anyone outside the organization to quibble with their decision. ---
**Author:** ![Vixenation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/278dde/32.png) [@Vixenation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vixenation)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/52 "2003-09-22T15:12:57Z")
**]catsix**, she is an M.D. Youngest to graduate from University of Wisconsin - Green Bay med school. Also, it’s quite the opposite on the state level - there can be anywhere from 8 - 40 girls in the state pageant (usually around 25), and a surprising number of them are not very pretty. While it’s generally true that a cute girl wins, it doesn’t always happen. If there is someone with a winning personality, great resume, strong talent who isn’t quite a 10 in the looks department, they will pick her over the gorgeous, willowy pageant “lightweight” almost every time. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/53 "2003-09-22T15:15:21Z")
Has there ever been a fat pageant winner? ---
**Author:** ![Yumanite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b487fb/32.png) [@Yumanite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumanite)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/54 "2003-09-22T15:17:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TaxGuy \* > \*\*… the organization has money to give away, so they can give it away to whoever they want to, and I think it’s stupid for anyone outside the organization to quibble with their decision. \*\* OK, I agree with the first part of what you said, but not the second. Sure, it’s their money, but that doesn’t means that **SnoopyFan** can’t opine that they are using it unwisely. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/55 "2003-09-22T15:21:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jennyrosity \* > \*\*Sorry but in Britain you have to prove you’re intelligent before you get to go to university. There are exceptions, some unis will admit students who don’t get the necessary grades if they had an exceptional interview; or as in my subject, Theatre Studies, in which exam results varied because admission was based more on our acting ability than intellectual capacity. Also, we don’t regard C students with the contempt you apparently do in America - C and above are regarded as “good” grades. I detest the way our education system is coming to resemble yours so closely, but at least we have yet to pay anyone’s way based on their ability to look good in a swimsuit!!! \*\* Jenny, what the hell are you talking about? 1. PAYING someone’s way through school does not mean they weren’t smart enough to get in. You seem to be confusing the process of being accepted with the process of paying the bills. Being accepted to a university is a separate function from paying the tuition. 2. Are you saying you don’t have beauty pageants in the UK? Think carefully. ---
**Author:** ![Jennyrosity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@Jennyrosity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennyrosity)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/56 "2003-09-22T16:10:14Z")
Ok. I’ve taken several deep breaths, shouted expletives at the screen, and I think I’m now calm enough to reply without letting my fury at RickJay’s deeply patronizing post take over. My points are as follows: 1. My original argument was with whichever twit suggested that pretty people should be rewarded simply for being pretty. What, for a lucky quirk of genetics? And yes, I know you can argue that being intelligent is also an inherited trait, but I think we can agree that getting to college/uni requires a certain amount of hard work AS WELL. Being pretty doesn’t. 2. Personally, I believe higher education should be free for all. No one should be deprived of the opportunity to learn beacause of financial reasons. But as it is, aid should be given to the most deserving i.e: the poorest and most intelligent. Obviously, if they happen to look good in a bathing suit as well then all power to them, but that shouldn’t be the sole criteria! 3. Yes, we have beauty pageants in the UK. Last time I checked, though, prizes did not include scholarship funds. Generally, a tacky tiara, a polyester sash and the title of “Miss Scunthorpe 1997” , and all the glory that entails, is thought to be sufficient. I hope that’s cleared things up for you RickJay. If not, perhaps you would like to go away and think about it…? ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Beaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Grim\_Beaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Beaker)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/57 "2003-09-22T16:24:43Z")
**Jennyrosity** > [@](#): > > My original argument was with whichever twit suggested that pretty people should be rewarded simply for being pretty. What, for a lucky quirk of genetics? And yes, I know you can argue that being intelligent is also an inherited trait, but I think we can agree that getting to college/uni requires a certain amount of hard work AS WELL. Being pretty doesn’t. Are you sure that the pageant contestants receiving college aid due to “a lucky combination of genetics” is the primary source of your offense? _Many_ people receive scholarships due to nothing they have done to earn it. Black people, women, children of veterans, etc. Are you also in favor of abolishing such scholarships since the recipients did nothing to earn them? > [@](#): > > Personally, I believe higher education should be free for all. No one should be deprived of the opportunity to learn beacause of financial reasons. But as it is, aid should be given to the most deserving i.e: the poorest and most intelligent. Obviously, if they happen to look good in a bathing suit as well then all power to them, but that shouldn’t be the sole criteria! As it has been pointed out earlier it _isn’t_ the sole criteria. Interview, talent, platform and previous scores all play a part in determining the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/58 "2003-09-22T17:18:30Z")
Okay you are off on a tangent… It’s free market system in this country…this makes as much sense as a dumb jock that makes 100 million over 7 years and yet can’t think like I can… But we as a society has placed a value on what they do…so it is what it is…unless you change the value system of a nation. The pageant was set up ( I am guessing) by manufacturers of women products…the millions in scholarship is “advertisement dollars spent” as such as long as they find a market for them etc…more power to them that’s $40 mil in scholarships that would not have been…. girls should not complain …they are the same as guys…they praise outer beauty just as bad…I have seen a group of 4 year olds play, and the “pretty barbies” beat and push the ugly barbies around…and no at that age, I doubt it’s a learned behavior…its basic human nature… So, lamenting one…1) we as a society would be hypocrites to knock it when we are no different 2) you can’t mess with a Basic free market economy 3) if you judge people down because of their “good looks” you are no different then those who are judgmental of people that are not good looking…. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/59 "2003-09-22T18:01:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jennyrosity \* > **Ok. I’ve taken several deep breaths, shouted expletives at the screen** Geez, you get awfully worked up about this stuff. > [@](#): > > My original argument was with whichever twit suggested that pretty people should be rewarded simply for being pretty. That is an interesting argument, but in fairness it’s not what I replied to; your post started out with “in Britain, you have to prove you’re intelligent to go to university.” The issue with Miss America pageants is not that these women are getting into universities they aren’t qualified to enter. They’re getting it PAID for. You may object to them getting money for being pretty, but they aren’t being offered a seat in these schools for being pretty. That is a very significant distinction that you again fail to make in this post: > [@](#): > > What, for a lucky quirk of genetics? And yes, I know you can argue that being intelligent is also an inherited trait, but I think we can agree that getting to college/uni requires a certain amount of hard work AS WELL. Being pretty doesn’t. Maybe “scholarship” has a slightly different meaning in Britain, but nobody’s handing these contestants a seat in Harvard they would not otherwise have gotten. I cannot emphasize enough how important that distinction is. These women **have earned a place in these schools through study and hard work.** Your criticism in this regard is completely unfounded. > [@](#): > > Personally, I believe higher education should be free for all. No one should be deprived of the opportunity to learn beacause of financial reasons. But as it is, aid should be given to the most deserving i.e: the poorest and most intelligent. I agree that higher education should to some extent be free. But if these corporations want to give away money for people to go to school I see that as being a good thing no matter what dumbass basis they use for it. The real life alternative is that they just don’t give anyone scholarships. If we kill the pageants, they’re not going to hand the scholarship cheques to poor kids, they’re going to not hand them out at all. Again, this is a transfer of education money from rich companies to young women who need the money to get educations they generally deserve. This is a good thing. > [@](#): > > Yes, we have beauty pageants in the UK. Last time I checked, though, prizes did not include scholarship funds. Generally, a tacky tiara, a polyester sash and the title of “Miss Scunthorpe 1997” , and all the glory that entails, is thought to be sufficient. According to the Web site for the Miss England pageant, the winner gets a variety of prizes and a trip to Malta. Personally, I do not see how that is better than paying for someone’s education. It strikes me as being substantially MORE productive to pay for an education than to pay for a week on the beach. ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922/60 "2003-09-22T18:45:11Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by zamboniracer_ > **[Try this link](http://www.printroom.com/missamerica/)** Is it me or are the contestants getting older. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-annual-miss-america-rant/202922.md?page=4)