# My apologies to Sweet Willy and MEBuckner **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 9, 2002, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652 "2002-04-09T12:48:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/21 "2002-04-09T18:18:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\*No problem **Zev Steinhardt**. Sorry I called you a putz. I just felt it was relative to the debate since we have a yiddish insult available 24/7 provided by the SDMB. Sorry anyway. \*\* Do all the other Dopers see this? Not only is Willy wise, he is quick to forgive! The rest of you can attack him and call him names. But I will stand by my Special Friend no matter what! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/22 "2002-04-09T21:10:55Z")
> [@](#): > > A yiddish insult meant to fly over the head of us gentiles is a good example. Translation: If I am ignorant, it must be a conspiracy that kept me that way! Putz has been part of mainstream English for years. (It was certainly well-known among my never-actually-met-a-Jew high school companions 35 years ago.) It has been featured in several movies. Its meaning is well-documented and widely known. So how is it “meant to fly over the head of us gentiles”? I don’t recall **WallyM7** even indicating a particular religious belief, but now his catchphrase is a Yiddish conspiracy? Get a grip. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/23 "2002-04-09T21:33:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > You see, **Zev Steinhardt,** wanted to know how Jewish tradition affects gentiles. A yiddish insult meant to fly over the head of us gentiles is a good example. **Willy** , “putz” is Yiddish for “estimable, stand-up gentleman.” You should take it as a compliment. ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/24 "2002-04-09T21:34:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Perhaps you can now explain how you thought it was “relevant” to call him “a waste of keystrokes” - **Zev Steinhardt** claimed that he did not care how Jewish tradition affected gentiles. Then he continues to demand to know in what way Jewish tradition affects gentiles. If he doesn’t care why should I waste my keystrokes? Is that really why \*\*MEBuckner \*\* closed the thread? I have used the phrase “a waste of keystrokes” before and no one seem to take it as an insult. I didn’t mean it as an insult. He said he didn’t care. Why bother? > [@](#): > > It’s not like every other word that the English language has claimed as its own and removed from cultural context. 'Cause it’s Jewish. **Andygirl** , I have known that the word “putz” was some type of insult. Never knew exactly what it meant until i asked around here. You see, “putz” is not recognized or adopted to any of the dictionaries I have consulted. Do you have a dictionary of english that includes “putz”? > [@](#): > > The Putz smiley is actually called “wally.” Wally being a very dear poster who passed away a few years ago who very often called people putzes. It’s in his honor and memory. Now you have tweaked my curiosity. I am going to have to search ol’ wally and see just where and how frequently he was allowed to insult people. Dear indeed. > [@](#): > > I should apologize too, for using personal attacks and non-debate-worthy commentary in G.D. No problem **Sexywriter,** I don’t mind your brain cells joke. I think the board takes exception to it. > [@](#): > > Many people here have confessed to being athiest [sic] Jews. > Attention Athiest Jews: You do not exist. Stop posting here. **Laurange,** I was being srcastic. **Zev Steinhardt** , stated that there was no such thing as an Athiest Jew. I think that is pretty darn funny after several Jews here have admitted to Atheism. > [@](#): > > So if Willy was warned not to insult in GD, and then he insults anyway - enough so that the thread gets closed - why, exactly, is he still posting here? **Esprix,** The only insult I was warned for was the use of wally. Seeing how wally is right there and how it has been used towards me, without a mods notice, I figure it is OK to use wally. As far as I know, **MEBuckner** says it is still OK to use wally as long as you don’t over indulge. As far as the “waste of keystokes”, I really don’t think that is an insult. **Zev Steinhardt,** has said that he didn’t care how I felt about the matter. If he doesn’t care, wouldn’t you consider it a waste to tell him anyway? At any rate, I will refrain from saying, “a waste of keystokes”. > [@](#): > > Do all the other Dopers see this? Not only is Willy wise, he is quick to forgive! It pays to have “special friends”. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/25 "2002-04-09T21:47:38Z")
**december** , unless that was sarcasm, in which case I totally rescind this comment, I think we should refrain from adding to ignorance. > [@](#): > > \*\*_Originally posted by Sweet Willy_ > > Zev Steinhardt claimed that he did not care how Jewish tradition affected gentiles. Then he continues to demand to know in what way Jewish tradition affects gentiles. If he doesn’t care why should I waste my keystrokes?\*\* Because you were using it as a part of **your** argument and you hadn’t backed up your point. > [@](#): > > **Laurange, I was being srcastic. Zev Steinhardt , stated that there was no such thing as an Athiest Jew. I think that is pretty darn funny after several Jews here have admitted to Atheism.** As far as I can tell, he said no such thing. He knows he would be erroneous in saying that. Could you please link me to where he said it? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/26 "2002-04-09T21:52:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LaurAnge \* > \*\* > > As far as I can tell, he said no such thing. He knows he would be erroneous in saying that. Could you please link me to where he said it? \*\* Just to set the record straight (and I don’t want to start debating in my own apology thread) what I said was that Jewish law does not recognize a “Jewish athiest.” IOW, Jewish law considers a Jew to still be Jewish regardless of whether he declares himself an atheist, the king of France, or a Burger King Chicken Whopper. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/27 "2002-04-09T21:56:12Z")
> [@](#): > > **You see, “putz” is not recognized or adopted to any of the dictionaries I have consulted. Do you have a dictionary of english that includes “putz”?** From Cambridge International Dictionary of English: > [@](#): > > putz > noun [C] > AMERICAN SLANG > a stupid person > He got me really angry so I told him he was a putz. Cite: [http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=putz\*1+0](http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=putz*1+0) From The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000 > [@](#): > > NOUN: 1. Slang A fool; an idiot. 2. Vulgar Slang A penis. INTRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: putzed, putz·ing, putz·es > Slang To behave in an idle manner; putter. ETYMOLOGY: Yiddish pots, penis, fool. Cite: [http://www.bartleby.com/61/6/P0680600.html](http://www.bartleby.com/61/6/P0680600.html) From [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com): > [@](#): > > putz (p ts) > n. > Slang. A fool; an idiot. > Vulgar Slang. A penis. Cite: [http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=putz](http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=putz) You might want to learn how to use the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/28 "2002-04-09T22:00:39Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* You see, “putz” is not recognized or adopted to any of the dictionaries I have consulted. Do you have a dictionary of english that includes “putz”?_\* I do. The Webster’s New World Dictionary, Third College Edition. lists it, along with a symbol to denote “Americanism”. It’s also listed at [dictionary.msn.com](http://dictionary.msn.com). I bet it’s listed in _most_ English dictionaries, but I’m not interested enough to do any further research. You didn’t really check, did you? :wally ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/29 "2002-04-09T22:16:07Z")
zev, I read the thread in question, and I’m surprised that more people did not call him a putz, or worse. It was all I could do to keep from posting something to that effect. The pit is the proper place for that schmuk, since he’s done nothing but bait people. I know, I know, we’re supposed to know better, but sometimes, as you said, you just want to react. He probably gets off on it, but screw it and screw him. ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/30 "2002-04-09T22:22:49Z")
> [@](#): > > So, now, Sweet Willy, let me tell you again: you cannot have atheist Jews. **Zev Steinhardt,** come on now. Tell the truth. This is what you said. Atiest Jews do exist. The willful ignorance of Jewish law doesn’t change reality. Reality. I did check for the meaning of “putz” at Miriam webster online and at [YourDictionary.com](http://YourDictionary.com). I also checked a few slang dictionaries from an MSN search and had no luck. So I asked in GQ what the meaning for “putz” was. Funny thing, the answers I got in GQ were all the same; the yiddish use of the word. No one gave it’s English definition and everyone agreed that it was offensive. The definitoin given me was literal; penis Implied; dickhead. ---
**Author:** ![Merhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Merhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/31 "2002-04-09T22:31:38Z")
Where is Susan Powter when you need her? ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/32 "2002-04-09T22:32:31Z")
Sorry, I can’t resist. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* Atiest Jews do exist. The willful ignorance of Jewish law doesn’t change reality. \*\* Atiest Jews do not exist. Neither do Athiest Jews. Atheist Jews, on the other hand, do exist, but to Jewish Law, that is the same as saying French Jews do exist. It doesn’t matter, you’re still Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/33 "2002-04-09T22:35:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Funny thing, the answers I got in GQ were all the same; the yiddish use of the word. No one gave it’s English definition and everyone agreed that it was offensive. The definitoin given me was literal; penis Implied; dickhead. It doesn’t have an English definition, you schmuck. It’s a _Yiddish_ word. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/34 "2002-04-09T22:42:37Z")
Would it help if you realised that Jews are an ethnic group as well? So you can have an Atheist Jew in the same way you can have an Atheist Hispanic. Judeism is different from most ethnic groups as it is also a religion, which is why you can convert to it, albiet a much harder conversion than most religions. It takes enough trouble to actually convert to Judeism that I doubt anyone that’s gone through all the rigormorale would then declare that they were an athiest. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/35 "2002-04-09T22:48:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > > **Zev Steinhardt,** come on now. Tell the truth. This is what you said. \*\* [sigh] I’m not going to debate you in my own apology thread. If you want to debate further, open up your own thread. However, to set the record straight: Yes, I did say those words. However, next time please quote the entire paragraph in which I said those words. I had said previously in the thread: > [@](#): > > If you are already a Jew, you can proclaim yourself an atheist, but you’re still a Jew. You can also proclaim yourself King of France, but you’re still a Jew. You can also proclaim yourself to be a Burger King Chicken Whopper, but you’re still a Jew. And: > [@](#): > > And that’s where you are wrong. If you are born Jewish, the faith does not recognize any later “conversion” to athiesm. As far as Judaism goes, there is no such thing as a Jewish athiest. A Jew can state he’s an atheist, but in the eyes of Jewish law, he’s still a Jew. And: > [@](#): > > Once more for old time’s sake: Someone who is born a Jew is a Jew for life – regardless of any actions he or she may later commit. > > Someone who converts to Judaism (and was a sincere convert) is a Jew for life – regardless of any actions he or she may later commit. > > Therefore, if a Jew who professes to be an atheist is still a Jew - regardless of whether he was born that way or became one through conversion. Got it? What’s discriminatory about that. Finally I said (you’re quote of me bolded): > [@](#): > > Jews: Because according to Jewish law there is no such thing as a Jewish athiest. Jewish law still recognizes them as Jews regardless of any statements they later make about their religion. > > **So, now, Sweet Willy, let me tell you again: you cannot have atheist Jews.** Jewish law does not recognize them as atheists. Get it? As far as Jewish law goes, they’re still Jews. So, your statement that Jewish law accpets atheist Jews holds no water. Got it? You’re quote of me is contained in the last paragraph. It was obvious throughout the thread (and in the context of the paragraph in which I said it) that I was refering to Jewish law. Please don’t take things I say out of context. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > Atiest Jews do exist. The willful ignorance of Jewish law doesn’t change reality. Reality. \*\* Maybe. But your willful ignorance of Jewish law doesn’t change it either. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/36 "2002-04-09T22:52:12Z")
> [@](#): > > that is the same as saying French Jews do exist. They do don’t they? Are you telling me that Judaism doesn’t recognize Frenchmen either? I don’t get your point, or you don’t get mine. What do you mean by “french Jews do exist”? I assume that Jewish law does acknowledge, or at least does not deny the existence of French Jews. **Zev Steinhardt** tells me that they do however, deny the existence of Atheist Jews. Now I know that some here claim to be Atheist Jews. Judaism says that you are not. Steve: I am an atheist. Rabbi: No you aren’t. Steve: Yes, really I am. Rabbi: Can’t be. You’re Jewish. Steve: Whatever. I don’t believe in God. Rabbi: You should. Steve: But I don’t. Rabbi: You really should. Steve: Why? Rabbi: "cause you’re a Jew. Steve: Look Rabbi, I don’t believe in God or Judaism. I’m going home to have some pork chops and a bacon sandwich. Rabbi: (sobbing) You’re still a Jew in my book anyday Steve. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/37 "2002-04-09T22:55:58Z")
It’s a good thing I don’t cruise GD more often. Willmeister, you’re a dickhead, you’re a bigotted, small-minded, putz-faced prick. You are a purposefully obtuse Anti-semitic troll. You still don’t get it? You still want to be a fucking Jew? Earn it. Then reject if you so choose. Until then, fuck off. It is my birthright to be a Jew. Therefore, I am. If I want to be agnostic/atheistic, then that’s my choice. However I am still a Jew. I can marry Goy, I can eat pork, I can tattoo a schwasitka on my forehead, I can say out loud to the local Rabbi “there is no GaWd, Jesus Is Lord!!!” and I am…wait for it… **STILL A JEW**. You will always be found wanting, but never be satisfied by your one goal in life…to be a Jew, just to spit on the culture, and defy our laws. I’m still waiting to find out how Judaic laws and culture negatively impact you gentiles. Or for that matter how Gentile customs and culture negatively affect us Jews. Damn, troll-feed again… Sam ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/38 "2002-04-09T22:58:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, I did say those words. However, next time please quote the entire paragraph in which I said those words. Sure **Zev Steinhardt,** Just like everyone on this board does. > [@](#): > ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/39 "2002-04-09T22:59:40Z")
**Sweet Willy** , I do believe that you are a _scheisskopf_\*. Does that make me an Atheist German? Sua ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652/40 "2002-04-09T23:04:43Z")
But you can’t be an atheist German! They don’t exist! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apologies-to-sweet-willy-and-mebuckner/102652.md?page=3)