# My apology **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723 "2005-06-24T20:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/41 "2005-06-25T00:17:02Z")
I read the “admission” differently. It seemed to me like he was saying that _in retrospect_ — after having an epiphone — he realized _after the fact_ that what he had been arguing was not coming from his true self, in the sense of the self he discovered in spiritual communion with Jesus Christ. He wasn’t deliberately trolling, but when he found himself, as it were, he discovered that he saw things differently. It happens with any conversion experience or divine inspiration. A man might, for example, post as an atheist, accept Christ as his Savior, and then report that his atheistic views had not been the views of his true self. Likewise, a man might renounce his faith, and report that he had been naive, and now knows better. That sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/42 "2005-06-25T00:19:03Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It happens with any conversion experience or divine inspiration. A man might, for example, post as an atheist, accept Christ as his Savior, and then report that his atheistic views had not been the views of his true self. But if it was against the rules to be Christian, wouldn’t he still have to accept responsibility for the period when he was one? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/43 "2005-06-25T00:42:29Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > But if it was against the rules to be Christian, wouldn’t he still have to accept responsibility for the period when he was one? I don’t understand the question. It doesn’t seem to follow from what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/44 "2005-06-25T00:48:38Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I don’t understand the question. It doesn’t seem to follow from what I said. It seemed like you were excusing his behaviour by saying that he wasn’t trolling because he didn’t know it at the time, but his religious experience made him realize that he was. Were you saying something else? ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/45 "2005-06-25T01:05:18Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > No, tell me it’s not true! > > But really, I was hoping to date a bush basher, not bush. 😃 _I’ll_ date you. Hold _still_. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/46 "2005-06-25T01:07:19Z")
It’s more fun to argue for something you really believe in. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/47 "2005-06-25T01:09:01Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > It seemed like you were excusing his behaviour by saying that he wasn’t trolling because he didn’t know it at the time, but his religious experience made him realize that he was. Were you saying something else? Yes. Yes indeed. I was saying that he realized after the fact that what he had been arguing was not coming from his true self, in the sense of the self he discovered in spiritual communion with Jesus Christ. If a man has an epiphone on the 24th, then he sees things differently than he did on the 23rd. That doesn’t mean that he was trolling on the 23rd, but that on the 24th he realized that he is no longer the man he was on the 23rd. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/48 "2005-06-25T01:20:34Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That doesn’t mean that he was trolling on the 23rd, but that on the 24th he realized that he is no longer the man he was on the 23rd. That depends on what exactly the epiphany revealed though, doesn’t it? To troll is to continously make statements that you know are inflamatory for the purpose of enraging others. Did his epiphany reveal to him that the statements were inflamatory? Did they reveal that trolling was morally wrong? Did they reveal that what he was doing was “trolling” even though he already knew that he was making inflamatory statements for the purpose of pissing other people off? I think only the former would make him not responsible for being a troll, because it’s the only one that meant he lacked the intent necessary to be a troll. However, the revelation from his conversation with Jesus would seem to be better described by the second option: He realized that what he was doing was wrong. His opinion on whether trolling is moral or not is irrelevant to the question of whether he was trolling; whereas a revelation that revealed to him that his statements were needlessly inflamatory (which doesn’t seem to be the case) would have ment that he wasn’t trolling because he lacked intent. Or are you suggesting that his religious experience made him a completely different person who isn’t responsible for the actions of his former self? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/49 "2005-06-25T01:41:59Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I read the “admission” differently. It seemed to me like he was saying that _in retrospect_ — after having an epiphone — Is that an e-flat saxophone? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/50 "2005-06-25T02:29:22Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Is that an e-flat saxophone? I figured the epiphone was a [hair remover](http://www.epilady.com/about.asp) for telephones. Of course, I’m not so bright. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/51 "2005-06-25T02:51:38Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Is that an e-flat saxophone? Right church, wrong pew – it’s [an Elitist.](http://www.epiphone.com/elitist/) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/52 "2005-06-25T02:54:16Z")
[Shows what you know, it’s a geeeetar sorta beasty.](http://www.epiphone.com/) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/53 "2005-06-25T03:01:17Z")
Psssst – **Finn** , baby, was that a simulpost with mine? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/54 "2005-06-25T03:03:35Z")
~sniffles~ That’ll teach me to keep the preview window open for a few minutes while reading other threads. ~sobs~ ~wails~ ~bawls~ See what you’ve done **ETF**? Upset my poor delicate sensibilities. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/55 "2005-06-25T03:33:06Z")
Just for the record, I was not trolling. I allowed my zeal to be right overcome my restraint. I should better characterize it as sticking to my guns because I was too proud to concede a point. If that makes me a troll, meh, I’ll have big feet and fuzzy hair then. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/56 "2005-06-25T03:38:56Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I often feel this is just the case with many members, who hold contrary positions to mine, but on further reflection, I believe that out of thousands of (recent) posters, the mods can probably post the real trolls on one, well actually, two hands. > > P.S. I find your claim hard to believe. Care to admit to your crimes and say which ones you knowingly lied about? I don’t really care to go through the whole Durbin thread again to enumerate them. But read my OP and you will see how I really feel, and anything outside of that I guess would qualify. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/57 "2005-06-25T03:45:16Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Just for the record, I was not trolling. **Giraffe** says different, and he’s a mod. That pretty much means that, as far as the SDMB is concerned, you were trolling. That also means that people can, years from now, link to **Giraffe** ’s ruling as a cite that you were trolling. IANAM, I could be wrong, and Jeri Ryan is a hottie. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/58 "2005-06-25T04:27:29Z")
I don’t know that I would have the courage to apologize in the pit where everyone could take pot shots at me. As I said in another thread, I admire courage. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/59 "2005-06-25T04:37:46Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > ~sniffles~ > > That’ll teach me to keep the preview window open for a few minutes while reading other threads. > > ~sobs~ > ~wails~ > ~bawls~ > > See what you’ve done **ETF**? Upset my poor delicate sensibilities. ☹ :: polishes blood off brass knuckles :: Snerk. :: Strolls away, [spurs jingling](http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/images/g_rode_boot.jpg) :: ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723/60 "2005-06-25T13:02:23Z")
I think that it’s time to close this thread. Lynn For the Straight Dope [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-apology/309723.md?page=2)