My asshat neighbour's cat killed our tree

[Zabali_Clawbane]

It sucks that you lost your tree.

With all due respect, I’d get a better tree than a Japanese Elm to replace the one you lost. They aren’t hardy at all, they get sick easily, don’t live long etc. At least this is what my mother-in-law, who is an avid gardener says of that particlular kind of tree. She’s scornful of them. She’s pointed out sick and dying Japanese Elms to me around this town.

Is there any way you could get the neighbors to pay for a new tree, and a device to protect the tree until it can grow too? Something like the sleeve to prevent beaver damage would work, but make certain it reaches high enough, cats can stretch fairly high as I’m sure you realize. Wish there was a way you could gum up the bark with something, so the cat maybe would get an aversion to law claw on that tree. It would have to be non toxic though.

Good luck with your next arboreal endeavor.

[Siege]

Skillet, I’m afraid there are limits to how well and how often the run-screaming-at-the-cat technique works. A long time ago, a cat used to come yowling around my apartment when I was trying to sleep. Since I love both cats and need my sleep, I used to run at the cat pantomiming throwing a rock at it (it was too late at night to yell). It worked about three times. After that, the stray realized there wasn’t anything in my hand and gave me a “Do you really think I’m going to fall for this?!” look. I think that cat thought I was the stupidest human being on the face of the planet. Fortunately, it apparently found smarter ones to annoy.

CJ

[jjimm]

How on earth can there be an anti-roaming law against cats? How are the owners expected to enforce it?

My take: sorry you lost your tree. However, I do think you/your landlord shoulda taken precautions though. Cats are part of the natural environment - yeah they’re not native, and they have human ‘owners’, but they’ve been around humans for millennia. Just as you might protect your flowers from slugs, so should you expect to have to protect your tree from cats, beavers, whatever.

You can buy lion poo to spread round the edges of your property that stop varmints getting in.

[stofsky]

*Originally posted by jjimm *
How on earth can there be an anti-roaming law against cats? How are the owners expected to enforce it?

Last I checked, as smart as their owners think cats are, felines are unable to operate a doorknob. Something to do with the lack of opposable thumbs.
**

Cats are part of the natural environment - yeah they’re not native, and they have human ‘owners’, but they’ve been around humans for millennia. Just as you might protect your flowers from slugs, so should you expect to have to protect your tree from cats, beavers, whatever. **

Beavers, sure. Feral cats, I guess, though with responsible ownership (neutering), that population would decrease. But there is no excuse for domestic cats destroying the property of others. Even in such polarized discussions as child/child-free, nobody would say, “Gee, sorry your window got broken, but you should have done something to protect it. Kids are part of the natural environment, and it’s your responsibility to keep them from destroying things, not their parents’.”

[jjimm]

*Originally posted by stofsky *
Last I checked, as smart as their owners think cats are, felines are unable to operate a doorknob. Something to do with the lack of opposable thumbs.

You’re saying that all cats in Calgary have to be indoor cats? That seems rather mean. I’m sure there aren’t many other places in the world where this is the case.

I just find it odd that it should be referred to as a “crime” in the first place, let alone one that couldn’t be considered victimless.

[alice_in_wonderland]

*Originally posted by jjimm *
You’re saying that all cats in Calgary have to be indoor cats? That seems rather mean. I’m sure there aren’t many other places in the world where this is the case.

Yep.

People can request cat-traps that will humainly catch a roaming cat and the Humane Society will pick them up and the owner has to pay a fine to get them back.

It’s against the law in the same way that parking illegally is - you get a ticket as opposed to jail time.

FWIW, all the cats I know are indoor cats (obviously) and they all seem quite happy with their lives. They eat. They sleep. They shmoo around the place. etc.

[Cerri]

There is NO good reason to allow your pet cats outdoors, while the reasons to keep them indoors are many, and as this board is dedicated to fighting ignorance, and the fact that this subject is very important to me as a loving mommy of 3 very content and happy indoor cats, I see a great need from some of the attitudes I’ve seen in this thread to step up and do my part to inform and try to educate.

Domestic pet cats allowed to roam freely contribute to MANY problems, far beyond the property damage listed in the OP, and the common knowledge that an outdoor cat is at far greater risk for disease and death due to other predators and cars. But there are many more far-reaching implications I think some of you may not be aware of, that risk not only the United States, but MANY other countries as well.

Allow me to elaborate with the following cites.

from http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/petswelfare/cats/wildcats.html :

No one knows the number of smaller animals killed by cats each year, therefore it is easy to exaggerate the figures. But it has been estimated there are well over 100 million owned and feral cats in the USA able to prey on wildlife, which translates to a substantial number of potential kills. Estimates of Australia’s feral cat population range from the sublime to the ridiculous - anything from four million to 12 million and probably neither estimate is right. In Britain the figure suggested is something over 8 million cats; the British Mammal Society points out that “Although it is unlikely that cats alone will cause any species to become endangered in Britain, for those which are already under pressure for other reasons, such as thrushes, . . . cats could become significant.”

Cats may outcompete native predators for food and disrupt the balance of nature. Even rodents, the preferred prey of most cats and a pest in houses and other buildings and on farms, are food for desirable wildlife species in some areas. The owned, well-fed cat can be just as efficient a hunter as the feral or stray, in fact owned cats have a big advantage, being protected from disease and immune to starvation brought about by overcompetition and changes in prey populations, factors that limit native predators.

from Alabamawildlife.org:

Wildlife professionals estimate the numbers of birds, small mammals, reptiles and amphibians taken by outdoor cats annually to be in the hundreds of millions nationwide. Some people believe that well fed cats, cats with bells on their collars, and declawed cats will be ineffective when stalking wildlife. This simply is not true. A well fed, healthy cat is an efficient predator that hunts by instinct. Cats will hunt and stalk prey whether they are hungry or not. Cat health, spread of disease to native wildlife, and land management issues also are of concern.

A frequently asked question is “Are there really that many feral and free roaming outdoor cats that can cause such damage to wildlife?” Last year in Escambia County, Florida alone, over 10,000 feral and free roaming cats had to be put down by the county animal control facility. This addresses only those cats that could not be adopted, or were not claimed. This is an average number for most coastal counties. Clearly this is an extremely high number of cats that are outdoors, stalking and killing native wildlife. Sadly, this number is not decreasing.

Cat Facts

Cats kill hundreds of millions of birds nationwide each year.
Cats with bells on their collars learn to stalk their prey silently.
Even well fed cats kill wildlife. The urge to hunt is instinctive and not controlled simply by hunger.
Each year millions of cats are run over by cars.
Feral cats have a life expectancy of less than three years.
Cats usually do not fair well after encounters with larger, native wildlife like raccoons, foxes and coyotes. Serious injury or death of the cat often results.
The Humane Society of Greater Birmingham has taken in over 3,000 cats since January 1, 2000, and 85% of them are not adopted and must be euthanized.
The Birmingham City Animal Control facility took in approximately 1,500 cats over the past year. Around 50% of those were feral cats and 50% were strays.

from aClemson University paper:

Symptoms/Signs: Feral cats (even the seemingly harmless house cat left outside) feed extensively on songbirds, gamebirds, mice and other rodents, rabbits, and other wildlife. Where documented, their impact on wildlife populations in suburban and rural areas appears to be high. Feral cats occassionally kill poultry and injure house cats. Free-ranging cats also serve as reserviors for human and wildlife diseases including cat scratch fever, distemper, histoplasmosis, leptospirosis, mumps, plague, rabies, ringworm, salmonellosis, toxoplasmosis, tularemia, and various endo- and ectoparasites. Obvious signs of feral cats are dead animals, tracks, droppings and visual observation.

from http://members.aol.com/gstigall/cats.htm :

Veterinarians and wildlife biologists dispel the myth that a well fed cat will not hunt…something that many of us have understandably believed at one time or another. For cats, hunting and eating are separate behaviors. In fact, well fed cats generally make better hunters, as they are in better condition and therefore are better athletes. Many of us have witnessed a cat turning away from a food dish to chase a critter.

Besides the real threat to wildlife, cats are themselves at risk from wildlife - including but not limited to raccoons, coyotes, mountain lions, skunks and dogs. Outdoor cats are also at risk from fleas, rabies, feline leukemia, animal abuse, being hit by vehicles and starvation. Many people build enclosures attached to the outside of their houses with a cat door so their cats can be in or out, but still safely confined.

Last but definitely not least … is the moral aspect of how we treat and care for cats. Cats are genetically altered domestic animals who need and deserve our care & protection. We urge people to either keep their cats indoors or in outside structures that protect both them and native species.

[Cerri]

(continued from last post, it was too long for just one…can you tell this subject means alot to me? )

from http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/nwrc/research/nonlethal/human_methods.html :

Pet owners may not control their animals as much as they should because they are unaware of the threat that domestic dogs and cats pose to livestock and wildlife. Even seemingly harmless and friendly animals instinctually harass and kill wild species and livestock and it is important for members of human communities to understand the real danger of domestic pets running wild.

from http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catfly3.htm :

Observation of free-ranging domestic cats shows that some individuals can kill over 1000 wild animals per year, although smaller numbers are more typical. Some of the data on kills suggest that free-ranging cats living in small towns kill an average of 14 wild animals each per year. Rural cats kill many more wild animals than do urban, or suburban cats. Several studies found that up to 90% of free-ranging rural cats’ diet was wild animals, and less than 10% of rural cats killed no wild animals. Recent research suggests that rural free-ranging domestic cats in Wisconsin may be killing between 8 and 217 million birds each year. The most reasonable estimates indicate that 39 million birds are killed in the state each year. Nationwide, rural cats probably kill over a billion small mammals and hundreds of millions of birds each year. Urban and suburban cats add to this toll. Some of these kills are house mice, rats and other species considered pests, but many are native songbirds and mammals whose populations are already stressed by other factors, such as habitat destruction and pesticide pollution.

Despite the difficulties in showing the effect most predators have on their prey, cats are known to have serious impacts on small mammals and birds. Worldwide, cats may have been involved in the extinction of more bird species than any other cause, except habitat destruction. Cats are contributing to the endangerment of populations of birds such as Least Terns, Piping Plovers and Loggerhead Shrikes. In Florida, marsh rabbits in Key West have been threatened by predation from domestic cats. Cats introduced by people living on the barrier islands of Florida’s coast have depleted several unique species of mice and woodrats to near extinction.

Not only do cats prey on many small mammals and birds, but they can outnumber and compete with native predators. Domestic cats eat many of the same animals that native predators do. When present in large numbers, cats can reduce the availability of prey for native predators, such as hawks and weasels.

Free-ranging domestic cats may also transmit new diseases to wild animals. Domestic cats have spread feline leukemia virus to mountain lions and may have recently infected the endangered Florida Panther with feline panleukopenia (feline distemper) and an immune deficiency disease. These diseases may pose a serious threat to this rare species. Some free-ranging domestic cats also carry several diseases that are easily transmitted to humans, including rabies and toxoplasmosis.

from Protecting Birds from Cats

Many cat owners who are also wildlife appreciators have tried a variety of techniques to handicap the cat in the eternal battle between cats and birds. Unfortunately it is hard to deter a determined cat! Bells on the cat’s collar do not alert birds to the presence of a predator. Only birds who have survived an attack by a cat wearing a bell are likely to recognize the tiniding sound as dangerous. In addition, many resourceful cats learn to stalk quietly even while wearing a beli. Declawing a cat may help to prevent damage to furniture, but many cats are very adept at catching prey even without claws. They merely bat the bird down with their paw and grab it with their teeth. Neither does severe scolding nor spanking deter a cat from hunting birds, they merely do it when the owner isn’t around. In this case “Tweety” is definitely at a disadvantage.

The only reliable method of prevention is to keep the cat indoors.

Did you know that pet owners of free-roaming cats that attack, kill or injure endangered species or migratory bird species have a legal responsibility, and are subject to FEDERAL LAW? Cite as follows- http://www.owra.org/cateffect.htm

Many rehabilitators are frequently approached by people who tell them, somewhat abashedly, that their cats are constantly bringing in birds. They seem to feel compelled to share this information, but when suggestions are offered, they brush them aside - they seem to be seeking absolution instead of a viable solution. When it is suggested that here is something that a single individual can do to positively mitigate human impact on wildlife, their eyes glaze over. While many cat owners may believe their pet cannot possibly have a significant impact just because it hunts, the cumulative devastation of cat attacks on wildlife is substantial. With many species in danger due to habitat loss, predation by house cats is yet one more hardship we humans impose on wild animals already struggling to survive in our human-dominated world. Yes, tropical forests are being cleared, wetlands are being destroyed, migratory birds are losing habitat along their entire migration route, they are losing insect prey and even their own lives to pesticides… but much of that feels beyond our individual, immediate ability to effect significantly. Limiting the toll that cats take on wildlife, however, is an action that is immediate and effective on an individual basis.

The Migratory Bird Treaty Act protects native birds from being killed or kept by people. Any person who willfully allows his or her cat to injure or kill migratory birds is, in effect, in violation of this federal law. While this may seem like an extreme interpretation, the “sport” hunting of wild animals by our well-fed pet cats is a waste of life and a crime against our wildlife, at least ethically, because it is preventable.

from http://www.cals.wisc.edu/media/news/03_97/killer_cats.html :

A recent study estimated that the free-ranging cats wandering rural Wisconsin kill from 8 million to 217 million birds a year, with 39 million the best estimate. The national toll probably includes hundreds of millions of birds and more than a billion small mammals. (The estimates are broad because researchers used a range of estimates for both kill rates and numbers of cats, Craven notes.) While some of the kills are mice, rats and other pests, many are native songbirds and mammals whose populations are already stressed by habitat loss and other factors. Urban and suburban cats add to the toll, but rural cats do the most damage because they have access to the most wildlife.

from http://www.nana.asn.au/n2-domestic.htm :

[/quote]
Are all cats hunters of wildlife?

It is becoming clear that some domestic cats are persistent hunters while others may be more opportunistic. The majority of cats will attack small ground dwelling birds such as the beautiful blue wren. Once common, the blue wren is now rare in places where cats dominate.

Small night animals are also hunted if cats are left to roam after dark. These include feathertail gliders, sugargliders, pigmy possums, ringtail possums, baby brush tail possums, bandicoots and small bats!

The Native Animal Network Association, carers of injured and orphaned native animals, asks you to help us cut the toll on wildlife.
[/quote]

And it’s not just prey feral and free-roaming domestic cats can inflict, they also harm local predator populations, re: http://www.cals.wisc.edu/media/news/03_97/killer_cats.html

People protect cats from disease, predation and competition, factors that control the levels of wild predators. When people provide cats with a dependable food supply, the cats’ numbers aren’t influenced by their prey’s numbers. While native predators become scarce when their prey declines, cats remain abundant. And a full stomach does little to diminish a cat’s motivation to hunt, Craven adds.

Cats can also hurt native predators by outcompeting them for prey. Large numbers of cats reduce prey numbers for hawks and weasels, for example. Some parts of rural Wisconsin have more than 100 free-ranging cats per square mile several times the density of all mid-sized predators (e.g. foxes, skunks and raccoons) combined.

from http://www.wildspirit.org/hazard.htm :

Cars - Cars kill millions of cats each year in the United States and maim countless others, either from being hit or from crawling inside the hood of a car to get warm in the winter. Automobile accidents also occur as drivers attempt to avoid hitting a cat in the road.

Poisoning - Cats can find chemicals that are poisonous to them on treated lawns, in rat or mice bait, and on driveways and roads from antifreeze leaked or drained from cars. Antifreeze tastes sweet to a cat, but as little as one teaspoon can be fatal.

Other Animals - Outdoor cats can be injured or killed by free-roaming dogs, wildlife, and other cats. Cats can suffer torn ears, scratched eyes, abscesses and other injuries requiring expensive veterinary treatment. Diseases can be transmitted by bites and scratches from infected animals.

Human Abuse - Animal care and control agencies often learn of situations in which cats have been burned, stabbed, or hurt by other means. Free-roaming cats are also susceptible to theft.

Traps - Cats can get caught in traps and those that don’t die immediately may suffer for days before being released or may starve. Cats caught in leg snares and leghold traps may lose limbs from injuries.

Overpopulation - Unaltered outdoor cats are the major source of the cat overpopulation problem, causing millions of unwanted cats to be euthanized at animal shelters each year. Humane societies and animal care and control agencies struggle daily to rescue, treat, feed, and house stray and unwanted cats. Kittens can be safely spayed or neutered as early as eight weeks of age, and there are significant physical and behavioral benefits of this procedure. Without the biological urge to roam to find a mate, spayed or neutered cats live more contentedly indoors

[Cerri]

(not done quite yet, sorry)

Disease is yet another reason to keep your cats indoors. There many different diseases a free-roaming cat can contract (Rabies, Feline Leukemia Virus, Feline Panleukopenia [feline distemper], Feline Infectious Peritonitis, Feline Immunodeficiency Virus, Feline Viral Upper Respiratory Disease) that can be fatal, several of which have NO VACCINE OR KNOWN TREATMENT, and are transmitted not only to other cats, but also to several endangered species as well, such as the Florida panther, as well as the bobcat, mountain lion and lynx.

Zoonosis is another, possibly even more severe problem for the owner of the indoor/outdoor cat. Cat-scratch Disease, Lyme Disease (caused by fleas and ticks contracted outdoors and brought indoors), Roundworms which can leave children with permanent visual or neurological damage if unnoticed/untreated, Hookworms.

Toxoplasmosis is a protozoa, which causes BIRTH DEFECTS AND MISCARRIAGE IN PREGNANT WOMEN, blindness, retardation and seizures in newborns, SERIOUS illness in children, and even death for people with weakened or depressed immune systems, is contracted by cats EATING INFECTED PREY. Cats are the ONLY animals in which this organism can complete its life cycle and be excreted in the cat’s feces (which is why pregnant women should NEVER clean litter boxes without using gloves, if they cannot get someone else to do the job for them)

quote from a cite concerning toxoplasmosis ( http://www.messybeast.com/zoonoses.htm )

Cats acquire Toxoplasma infection by ingesting infected prey. The organisms multiply in the wall of the small intestine and produce oocysts, which are then excreted in the faeces for 2-3 weeks. Most cats shed oocysts only once after infection and are then effectively immune. Within 5 days the shed oocysts become infectious to other animals and to humans. Infectious “sporulated oocysts” are highly resistant to environmental conditions and can survive in moist shaded soil or sand for many months. Some Toxoplasma organisms migrate from the cat’s intestine to muscle and brain but usually remain dormant. The same migration can also occur in humans. Congenital infection (transmission from mother to foetus) occurs in sheep, goats, and humans.

In humans, toxoplasmosis symptoms may be flu-like, in most cases there are no symptoms. Infection is more serious in individuals with poor immune response. If such people contract toxoplasmosis for the first time it can run riot in the body with the immune system unable to keep it in check. In people who have previously been infected, the dormant tissue cysts are activated. Stress can also activate dormant cysts. Activated tissue cysts can produce millions of toxoplasmas which can lodge in the heart or brain and other major organs.

A study in 2002 has suggested that toxoplasmosis, which some people carry as a latent infection, can have neurological effects such as slowed reaction times. One very controversial idea is that latent toxoplasmosis infection might trigger some forms of schizophrenia. Fuller Torrey (Stanley Medical Research Institute, Maryland, USA) found that schizophrenics were statistically more likely to be cat owners and to have latent toxoplasmosis. Test-tube studies indicated that drugs used to control schizophrenia affected the toxoplasmosis parasite and could explain how the drugs worked. Sceptics point out that the drugs might affect the parasite as a side-effect, rather than a primary effect and that persons genetically pre-disposed to schizophrenia (it is a combination of genetic predisposition and environmental triggers) might also be pre-disposed to liking cats; in addition many people with latent toxoplasmosis do not develop schizophrenia.

Congenital infection is of greatest concern in humans; especially in pregnant women who contract toxoplasmosis for the first time while they are pregnant. They may show no symptoms themselves, but the foetus may suffer birth defects including blindness and brain damage. Since most cat-owning women have already been exposed to toxoplasmosis (and hence do not become reinfected), this is uncommon which is why it causes headlines. Most infected babies are born healthy, but with dormant toxoplasmosis cysts, in later life these may lead to reduced vision and loss of sight. In the UK, the total number of babies with congenital toxoplasmosis is approximately ten (out of many thousands).

Cats have also as recently as 1993-94 been associated with the spread of the human plague (thankfully, the cases are few and far between, yet the problem still exists) (cite- http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00026077.htm )

In 1993, the 10 confirmed cases of human plague were reported from New Mexico (six cases), Colorado (two), Texas (one), and Utah (one). Persons with plague infection were aged 22-96 years (median: 55.5 years); five were aged greater than or equal to 67 years. Six cases occurred among men. Five cases occurred during June-August, three during March-May, and two during September- November. Seven persons were exposed at their homesites, and one (a veterinarian) was exposed at work; exposure sites could not be determined for two cases. Seven cases were bubonic plague; two, primary septicemic; and one, primary pneumonic. Nine of the 10 patients recovered with antibiotic therapy; one patient died.

For three patients, the probable mode of transmission was flea bite (based on the presence of an inguinal bubo or a recollection of flea bites). Two patients (including the veterinarian) were infected by domestic cats with visible signs of plague infection (i.e., oral lesions and a swollen tongue). For five cases (including the fatal case), the probable mode of transmission could not be determined; however, evidence of plague infection in local animal populations was detected in association with three of these cases.

Also, see these links:

http://www.floridaconservation.org/viewing/articles/cat.pdf

http://www.abcbirds.org/cats/hazard.pdf

http://www.abcbirds.org/cats/wildlife.pdf

http://www.abcbirds.org/cats/catpre.pdf
I could go on and on, but all of you can Google and Yahoo as well as I can. Though I’ve probably gone on far too long as it is, I’ll ask you to excuse this, because I feel this is a very often overlooked problem amongst many cat owners.

Please, please, PLEASE, for the safety or your beloved pets and your beloved family, and for the sake of your local fauna, I beg you to keep your cats indoors. If you feel they MUST get outside time, I urge you to leash-train your cats, or provide them with an enclosed outdoor run, such as many dog owners have for their pets. You CAN train your outdoor or indoor/outdoor kitty to be perfectly content being indoors permanently. Here are some links to help those of you currently allow your cat outdoors (allowing them outdoors at night is the worst threat to the environment)

http://www.sdnhm.org/exhibits/cats/indoors.html

http://www.theanimalspirit.com/indoors.html

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9352/indoors.html
http://new.mypetstop.com/NR/exeres/000125c0hwyecjdclfcqwrmh/MainArticleTemplate.asp?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2FUK%2FCats%2FBehaviour%2FTraining%2BTips%2FFrom%2BOutdoor%2BCat%2Bto%2BIndoor%2BCat.htm&NRNODEGUID={2CB1B38E-7C7A-4733-8B66-88DFF375892D}&NRQUERYTERMINATOR=1&cookie_test=1

[Cerri]

And one last final, sad note.

To those of you who will still not consider keeping your cats indoors, I offer you this final story in hopes of making you wish to prevent the tragedy of a loss like this one. (link- http://www.siameserescue.org/educate1.html Note, I have only linked part of the story, I am providing you with the link so you may read the entire thing)

This Is All I Have Left Of Her (picture of a collar with tags)
Charlotte.
Our beautiful 3 year old lilac siamese purr-monster. Alex’s best buddy. Even though Alex was quite a bit older (a 13 year-old lilac Siamese), if you were looking for Charlotte, you knew Alex would always be close by.
I have always had Siamese cats, even as a child. Our family always allowed them to go outside, because after all, who can deny a Siamese cat anything? We lived in the suburbs, with no major highways, and we were fortunate as a family to never have lost a kitty to “outside dangers” such as car accidents or poisonings. So I carried this Outdoor Philosophy with me into my adulthood.

A few weeks later, on one of those beautiful summer days, another one of the many days I let Charlotte outside, my beautiful, precious Charlotte was found dead across the street. I came upon her first. We assumed she was hit by a car, but will never know for sure. For some unknown reason, she had ventured out across the road bordering our house. I called and called for her, but this time she did not come home. I will never know whether or how long Charlotte suffered or whether anyone even stopped and tried to help her, but I can tell you that these questions continue to haunt me.

I was not there for her when she left this world. I will never watch Charlotte grow old gracefully. I will never hold her again and hear her purr. After she died, I had to endure watching Alex look for her over and over. I watched my husband grieve. And I feel responsible, because I should have known that no matter what my experience has been with letting cats go outside, and no matter how smart and well-disciplined Charlotte was, I cannot control the outside world. And our world is mean, and it is cruel. It is fast and furious for those little kitties who want nothing more than to play and smell and chase a chipmunk across the street. They are innocent beings in a not-so-innocent world. And they depend on us to make their world safe.
And I failed to do this for Charlotte.
I pray for Charlotte’s forgiveness. I told her I would try to make it up to her by agreeing to keep any new kitties indoors from now on. But I paid with Charlotte’s life to learn this lesson. It won’t happen again - ever.

Please reconsider your position. I had to lose my beloved Charlotte to reconsider mine.

You don’t want to be in my position:
left with just a collar…

[Cat_Whisperer]

Um, yeah! What Cerri said!

[Cerri]

lol!

Sorry, I know I ran a bit long…a passionate subject for me chuckles

[sugaree]

Um, are exemptions made for barn cats? Or do farmers have to resort to snakes for pest control?

[lieu]

We had a neighbor’s cat take a shine to our young tree trunk as well. I bought some chicken wire and wrapped a couple of loose layers around the trunk. Not only did it provide immediate protection but a couple of months later I was able to remove it and here years later that darn cat still hasn’t returned.

[NurseCarmen]

Roaming cats piss me off. Keep your disease spreading nature killing property damaging fleabags away from me. Pompous and clueless owners who allow their widdle biddy pwecious kitties out let loose a nature killing scourge.

Here’s a tip:
[ul]Roaming cats catch disease and die earlier, is that love?
Roaming cats get killed by wild animals, other cats, fucked up teenagers. Is that love?
Roaming cats get hit by cars, is that love?
Roaming animals bring home Cryptosporidium, which can be deadly to those with immune deficiencies, is that love? [/ul]

It’s illegal in the majority of North American cities to allow your cat to roam. It’s a pity it’s illegal to hunt them. I personally wouldn’t, but I wouldn’t have a problem if people did. I have no problem with Rat abatement in the metro area. I have no problem with racoon abatement in the area. I see no difference.

Flame away. If you let your cat roam, you are an inconsiderate, delusional, pompous ass.

[Cerri]

Um, are exemptions made for barn cats? Or do farmers have to resort to snakes for pest control?

Well, that’s a toughy, from my point of view, feeling as strongly about this issue as I do, as I think I’ve aptly demonstrated.

I suppose where I lie on the issue of barn cats, is that, much like dogs on a farm, these are working animals, not necessarily companion animals. The dangers are usually less for a cat in a very rural area/on a farm, but by no means are they absent. You still have natural predators, risk of disease spread from animal to animal (including possibly your livestock), and death by various means such as getting caught in a field by a tractor, feral dogs, etc. But, like I said, a barn cat, imho, would be considered a working animal. I suppose if you’re willing to accept the fact your cats will average 3-5 years of life instead of the 15-17 they’re capable of, it’s a choice you make for yourself and the animals that depend on you.

Or you could just use another form of pest control, such as traps, poison, etc. I’m not a farmer, so I do not claim to know how effective or viable the alternatives to using a cat for pest control are. I would however, greatly urge owners of barn cats to spay/neuter all their cats allowed to roam outside, and keep them up to date on shots, and take them for regular checkups since there are many diseases cats can contract outdoors that there are no vaccines or cures for, that can be transmitted to other animals and humans, that would place a risk to both livestock and humans on said farm.

[jjimm]

All I can say is that attitudes about this are way different this side of the pond. I don’t really desire to get into an argument about it, though. 'Nuff said.

[sugaree]

Sorry that I missed your answer to my question, Cerri.

Anecdotal evidence for the effectiveness of cats: my husband at one point had reason to visit a recycling center where there was a terrible problem with rats. They used traps, poisons, had exterminators visit weekly…for several years. The rats flourished. They grew large and numerous and mocked the humans.

Finally, a stray cat wandered in. And the workers started feeding it. One cat. Problem solved.

I’m just saying.

[Little_Plastic_Ninja]

And let’s not forget, o cat lovers, that your precious Muffin is not a wild animal. She’s not. She’s been domesticated since before dogs, if I’m right. She’s used to relying on humans; it’s her natural state and has been for literally thousands of years. Some folks have their cats outside, but if it’s a pet versus a pest-control system, it’s best to keep it indoors, for…well, all the reasons above.

Gosh, Cerri, you may want to make yourself a website and put all that stuff on it. Would’ve made a nifty one-line link.

[Skillet38]

*Originally posted by Siege *
**Skillet, I’m afraid there are limits to how well and how often the run-screaming-at-the-cat technique works. A long time ago, a cat used to come yowling around my apartment when I was trying to sleep. Since I love both cats and need my sleep, I used to run at the cat pantomiming throwing a rock at it (it was too late at night to yell). It worked about three times. After that, the stray realized there wasn’t anything in my hand and gave me a “Do you really think I’m going to fall for this?!” look. I think that cat thought I was the stupidest human being on the face of the planet. Fortunately, it apparently found smarter ones to annoy.

CJ **

sorry if I left out one itty bitty detail of the tactics I was employing that are an integral part of the run-screaming-etc technique. You need a shotgun, a small one, say a 410 or a 20 gauge loaded with number 8 shot ( won’t really hurt the cat that much, it’s for birds ). Fire near or directly at said cat and I think the fear factor becomes exponential.

btw, you do this to one of my three cats and you’re going to have bigger guns than that to worry about
lol