# My Bad Croc Tears **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 4, 2002, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206 "2002-05-04T03:19:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gargoyle48](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9a140/32.png) [@Gargoyle48](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gargoyle48)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/1 "2002-05-04T03:19:43Z")
I am dismayed by Cecil’s use of the ever more popular phrase “my bad” in his recent crocodile tears revisited. You might as well use “my green” or “my large”. How much longer until we see Cecil say “I had 4gotten 2 think that ‘my bad’ is not a sentence”? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/2 "2002-05-04T04:44:21Z")
Welcome to the SDMB. You’re bad (but only a little) because you didn’t provide a link to the column. Doing so can be as simple as pasting the URL into your post, making sure to leave a blank space on either side of it. Like so: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020503.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020503.html) You seem to be under the impression that _bad_ can only be an adjective. It can also be a noun meaning a bad thing as in “T’exchange the bad for better” [Shakespeare] or “the good, the bad, and the ugly.” “My Bad” may not be a complete sentence because it has no verb, but then again you could say the same of “My mistake” which I suspect would not so raise your ire. ---
**Author:** ![cmagnuson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@cmagnuson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmagnuson)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/3 "2002-05-04T05:38:55Z")
Regarding the Crocodile Tears question, [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020503.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020503.html) Crocodile physiology aside, I believe the term, “crocodile tears” is in reference to the fact that crocodiles do NOT produce tears (as we think of them); therefore if you accuse a youngster (or anyone else for that matter) of producing “crocodile tears” you are saying they are pretending to cry. In other words, they are making crying sounds, but no tears are actually forming in their eyes, leading you to believe that they are doing this just for effect, or to manipulate the situation to get their way. As for “my bad” (IMHO): like a lot of other slang that has been adopted by society, it may not follow the traditional grammatical rules, but if it is accepted as slang, it doesn’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/4 "2002-05-05T02:52:05Z")
Well, as long as we’re posting nitpicks, I’ve got one: On the Home Page, shouldn’t the word “revisited” have the link to the _updated_ column, which is actually titled, “Do crocodiles shed tears? (revisited)”? The word “revisited” links to the original 1978 column. Swap 'em around, Zotti, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/5 "2002-05-05T16:04:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmagnuson \* > **Regarding the Crocodile Tears question, [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020503.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020503.html) > Crocodile physiology aside, I believe the term, “crocodile tears” is in reference to the fact that crocodiles do NOT produce tears (as we think of them** No, as [Cecil’s original column](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_004a.html) correctly indicated, the origin of the phrase is in a myth popularized in early bestiaries. Early versions of the legend, such as that by the French Franciscan monk Bartholomaeus Anglicus in the 13th century, merely said that the crocodile wept as it was consuming a victim that had already been killed. Later authors, such as Topsell in his _History of Four-Footed Beasts_ (1607), claimed that crocodiles wept and sobbed in order to attract the attention of humans, and then attacked them when they approached closely enough. In either case “crocodile tears” came to indicate duplicity, insincerity, and hypocrisy. The original authors believed that crocodiles shed tears, even though this has no real basis in fact. SD Staff George, S.D.C.O.A.T.W.C.O.F. (Straight Dope Curator of All that Walks, Crawls, or Flaps) ---
**Author:** ![sford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/edb3f5/32.png) [@sford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sford)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/6 "2002-05-05T19:34:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmagnuson \* > \*\*…it may not follow the traditional grammatical rules, but if it is accepted as slang, it doesn’t have to. \*\* I think that Gargoyle48 probably knew that; I suspect that his point is that a person with the intellectual stature of Cecil should not be using slang, especially the kind often associated with youth or low-class. If Gargoyle will look back at a good sample of past columns, s/he will see that Cecil has always peppered his writing with slang, idioms, insult, and (sometimes off-color) humor. He has never affected the tone of a stuffy academic. Some of his flights of verbal abuse have been somewhat factually wanting (“If ignorance were cornflakes, John, you’d be General Mills”), but what he lacks in genteel discourse, he more than makes up for in entertainment value. Cecil’s lasting legacy may be to have decreased ignorance, but in my opinion, he has done the human race just as great a service by showing that you can do it and have some fun at the same time. P.S. to DDG: yeah, the same thought entered my head. Perhaps the parenthetical link could read “update to”. Or maybe just eliminate the link from the home page and cross-link the two columns. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/7 "2002-05-06T16:00:04Z")
Re: Cecil’s lame follow up. This makes me wonder how much of the straight dope, is straight dope. WHat I have taken as gospel, from the “Smartest Human Being Alive,” might just be a croc o’ BS. Lately I find the staff reports more interesting and Uncle Cece’s columns less and less inspired. ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/8 "2002-05-08T18:55:08Z")
Perhaps it’s time to update the [FAQ](http://www.straightdope.com/faq/officialfaq.html): > [@](#): > > 1. **Tell the truth. Has Cecil ever been wrong?** > > Never. However, certain questionable situations have arisen. Veteran Straight Dope readers may remember that a column once referred to “talking books for the deaf.” Very funny. It was a new copyboy’s first day on the job. His body has never been found. Considering Cecil out-and-out admitted that he was wrong, I’d say this needs correcting. Also, there was that bit about the flea circuses a couple of months ago… ---
**Author:** ![Sengkelat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Sengkelat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sengkelat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/9 "2002-05-13T23:23:50Z")
Crocodiles can shed tears. Check out the faq at [crocodilian.com](http://crocodilian.com): [http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/cbd-faq-q6.htm](http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/cbd-faq-q6.htm) There’s even a photo of a crocodile tear, which isn’t exactly proof, but it’s better than the dubious information in Cecil’s column. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/10 "2002-05-14T15:14:38Z")
WTF? The site does mention that crocodiles have lacrimal secretions (tears), but it goes to great length to say that they don’t cry. Pretty much exactly what Cecil says in his followup. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/11 "2002-05-14T18:55:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sengkelat \* > \*\*Crocodiles can shed tears. Check out the faq at [crocodilian.com](http://crocodilian.com): > > [http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/cbd-faq-q6.htm](http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/cbd-faq-q6.htm) > > There’s even a photo of a crocodile tear, which isn’t exactly proof, but it’s better than the dubious information in Cecil’s column. \*\* Whaddya mean, dubious information? Yes, crocodiles have lacrimal glands that produce secretions that lubricate the eye, aka “tears”. No, these secretions are not shed externally from the eye under normal conditions; therefore crocodiles cannot be said to cry. From the site you linked to: > [@](#): > > \*\*Tears are normally only noticeable if the crocodile has been out of the water for a long time and the eyes begin to dry out - which is the case in this photograph where an abnormally large amount of fluid can be seen. > > . . . > > Although we have established that crocodiles produce tears, of course they do not actually cry - that is a myth.\*\* I didn’t say they didn’t _have_ tears, I said they didn’t shed tears. That’s pretty much what the article says too, as **Nametag** has already pointed out. SDSAB Staff George ---
**Author:** ![Sengkelat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Sengkelat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sengkelat)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/12 "2002-05-14T20:00:27Z")
Cecil’s follow-up never says explicitly that crocodiles can shed tears from their eyes. In fact, if one didn’t already know that they can, the most likely conclusion from Cecil’s article would be that they can’t. Consider the statement: “Those references that mention crocodile tears at all simply state that the tale is bunk…” To what tale is he referring? The only reference we have at that point is in Hayden S’s question: “…and that tales of crocodile tears are a myth.” So the tale is that crocodiles can shed tears, and that conclusion we draw is that that tale is bunk. Bad, bad, bad Cecil! The points Cecil needed to address were: a) Crocodiles do indeed secrete liquid into their eyes b) This liquid is sometimes shed from the eye, although not commonly c) In case you’re wondering, this is not in any way a display of emotion. The information in the column does not make any of these clear. From reading the column, without outside information, I would conclude that crocodiles have no real tear ducts, although they do secrete fluid into their mouths, for some purpose other than to lubricate their food. The column not only fails to answer the question asked, it manages to be misleading in its answer. This is why I call the information “dubious.” The page I listed in my previous post is not “Pretty much exactly what Cecil says,” rather it is both clear and correct. ---
**Author:** ![Sengkelat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Sengkelat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sengkelat)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/13 "2002-05-14T20:17:31Z")
Just to be entirely clear (since I’m throwing around accusations that being unclear is bad) I find no fault in the information presented by George. The fault lies with Cecil. It’s his column, and he needs to make sure the information he provides answers the question asked and makes sense to people who don’t have all the background information. Keep in mind that the question doesn’t ask if crocodiles cry, it asks about crocodile tears. I don’t think anyone, at least not in the enlightened SDMB community, things that any reptiles weep from remorse. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/14 "2002-05-15T00:02:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sengkelat \* > **Just to be entirely clear (since I’m throwing around accusations that being unclear is bad) I find no fault in the information presented by George.** Ok, that’s a relief. 😉 > [@](#): > > \*\*The fault lies with Cecil. It’s his column, and he needs to make sure the information he provides answers the question asked and makes sense to people who don’t have all the background information. > > Keep in mind that the question doesn’t ask if crocodiles cry, it asks about crocodile tears. I don’t think anyone, at least not in the enlightened SDMB community, things that any reptiles weep from remorse. \*\* I think part of the problem here is that you need to read the original 1978 column in conjunction with the current one to get the full picture. > [@](#): > > \*\*“Those references that mention crocodile tears at all simply state that the tale is bunk…” > > To what tale is he referring? The only reference we have at that point is in Hayden S’s question: > > “…and that tales of crocodile tears are a myth.” > > So the tale is that crocodiles can shed tears, and that conclusion we draw is that that tale is bunk. \*\* The “tale” I was referring to was the one Cecil describes in the 1978 column. The “myth” is not that crocodiles “can shed tears,” but that they actually weep while devouring their victims. Cecil may have figured that, since the first column is linked to in the second, you would have read both. Admittedly, the whole story could perhaps have been explained a bit more explicitly in the second column, but Cecil does have a word limit on these things. ---
**Author:** ![Sengkelat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Sengkelat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sengkelat)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/15 "2002-05-15T16:25:23Z")
If the follow-up was solely online, I would’t imagine Cecil would have a word limit. If it was in print, then Cecil could hardly expect anyone to have saved a hardcopy of his column from 1978. But at this point I’m just being difficult, I think we pretty much agree on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/16 "2002-05-16T00:11:16Z")
The follow-up is both - posted online and also in newspapers. ---
**Author:** ![Cecil\_Adams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cecil\_Adams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cecil_Adams)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/17 "2002-05-16T17:46:52Z")
Someday we may eradicate ignorance, but never kvetching. ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Kahuna_Burger)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/18 "2002-05-16T18:22:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cecil Adams \* > \*\*Someday we may eradicate ignorance, but never kvetching. \*\* If anyone can do it, you can. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-bad-croc-tears/107206/19 "2002-05-17T21:45:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Someday we may eradicate ignorance, but never kvetching. Especially not on hot dogs… We’ll never eliminate [kvetching on hot dogs](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_095.html).