# My best argument for the non-existence of God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615 "2005-07-08T17:43:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ex\_Machina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/1 "2005-07-08T17:43:58Z")
Imagine a world where there is no God. Where life forms, intelligence, and self-awareness are physical phenomena as inevitable and unplanned as a rainbow is the result of light through a mist. Now imagine the intelligent life forms wanted to create a God; to believe in a God which didn’t, in fact, exist. Their description of that imaginary God would be exactly as it is here on planet Earth. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/2 "2005-07-08T17:48:43Z")
I’m not sure I follow your argument. Firstly, you start off with the premise that God does not exist. Secondly, you assert that _if_ He was invented, it must be as He is known to us. But I don’t see how that is proven. Lastly, there are many different conceptions of God in the world. The Judaic/Islamic notion of God is different from the Christian notion, which is different from other faiths. That being said, how can you say that if we would have created Him, He would be just as He is described. With a multitude of “gods” around, that statement is obviously false. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/3 "2005-07-08T17:50:33Z")
> [@Ex Machina](#): > > Their description of that imaginary God would be exactly as it is here on planet Earth. Your Right, the imaginary god would definately be a squid head master that ate pathetic humans. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/4 "2005-07-08T18:19:36Z")
> [@Ex Machina](#): > > Now imagine the intelligent life forms wanted to create a God; to believe in a God which didn’t, in fact, exist. > > Their description of that imaginary God would be exactly as it is here on planet Earth. For the sake of argument, let us assume that your premise is correct. How does this logically imply that God does not exist? ---
**Author:** ![Ex\_Machina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/5 "2005-07-08T18:28:10Z")
It doesn’t matter which god. The Judeo-Christian god would be described as one who doesn’t make personal appearances (after the few written about in the Old Testament.) He would get credit for any "good’ occurrence while being exempt from the “bad” (unless we are being punished). A natural god would be explained through forces of nature, etc. Every God of Earth has it’s existence explained, or rather rationalized, as a participant in, or orchestrator of, natural happenings. Why are there no overt interactions between humans and gods? Chalk it up to shyness or some mysterious plan. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/6 "2005-07-08T18:28:52Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > For the sake of argument, let us assume that your premise is correct. How does this logically imply that God does not exist? It doesn’t. Although it does show that there is no evidence for the existence of God. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/7 "2005-07-08T18:34:54Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Your Right, the imaginary god would definately be a squid head master that ate pathetic humans. 😃 Blaspheme not, for when the Elder Gods return they shall deal most sternly with mockers. \*Iaa! Iaa! Cthulhu fthagn!!! \* the light!.. I see! … I see! … visions of limitless gulfs of time and space … the frozen wastes of the accursed Plateau of Leng … the blind, idiot god Azathoth, who sits gibbering in the heart of all creation … an immense sunken city whose geometry is _all wrong \* … immense bat-winged ichthyoids … \* Shub-Niggurath!!!the goat with a thousand young !!! … Iaa! Iaa!_ ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/8 "2005-07-08T18:35:08Z")
\*\*My best argument for the non-existence of elephants: \*\*Imagine a world where there are no elephants. Where life forms, intelligence, and self-awareness are physical phenomena as inevitable and unplanned as a rainbow is the result of light through a mist. Now imagine the intelligent life forms wanted to create an elephant; to believe in an elephant which didn’t, in fact, exist. Their description of that imaginary elephant would be exactly as it is here on planet Earth. Huh??? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/9 "2005-07-08T18:50:22Z")
> [@Ex Machina](#): > > Imagine a world where there is no God. …(snip)… > Their description of that imaginary God would be exactly as it is here on planet Earth. I keep reading this over, and the only way it makes sense is if you’re arguing that the incredible diversity of described and worshipped Gods are inconsistent with any possible actual phenomenon. That is, if you’re saying “God doesn’t exist, because in my hypothetical world where he assuredly doesnt, the same imaginary God(s) have sprung up, and none of them are like each other and they’re more or less all mutually incompatible. Therefore, God doesn’t exist because if he did there’d be a much more consistent depiction of him from various religious founders.” I don’t think that’s what you MEANT, but it might well be a stronger arguement than you propose–taken literally, you’re not really proving anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ex\_Machina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/10 "2005-07-08T18:59:46Z")
If all the descriptions and explanations of ‘something’ imagined to exist are identical in a reality where that proposed something, in fact, doesn’t exist, then that ‘something’ is identical to a non-existent thing. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/11 "2005-07-08T19:07:25Z")
He says : Our world is indistinguishable from one in which there is no God. This fails as a proof, because our world is also indistinguishable from one in which there is a God. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/12 "2005-07-08T19:11:25Z")
I don’t see how you can prove or disprove God’s or gods’ existence(s). If God exist, by many religions you’re supposed to take it on faith. What scientific experiment could you set up to prove God does not exist? I think God is beyond comprehension. He/She/It/Them/\*strange mathematical concept \* etc. is in the realm of philosophers and the faithful. I always thought atheists are too sure of themselves. They say: “God does not exist”. I say, “Am I to take that on Faith” ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/13 "2005-07-08T19:15:59Z")
> [@Ex Machina](#): > > Imagine a world where there is no God. Where life forms, intelligence, and self-awareness are physical phenomena as inevitable and unplanned as a rainbow is the result of light through a mist. > > Now imagine the intelligent life forms wanted to create a God; to believe in a God which didn’t, in fact, exist. > > Their description of that imaginary God would be exactly as it is here on planet Earth. If this was the best proof for the non-existence of God, I’d be a Hari Krishna. ---
**Author:** ![Ex\_Machina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/14 "2005-07-08T19:19:47Z")
My argument is certainly not an absolute proof. But it approaches proof asymptotically with every explanation of the behavior or existence of god, since every explanation is another one consistent with non-existence. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/15 "2005-07-08T19:25:34Z")
> [@Ex Machina](#): > > My argument is certainly not an absolute proof. But it approaches proof asymptotically with every explanation of the behavior or existence of god, since every explanation is another one consistent with non-existence. As I said, it’s exactly as much proof for as against the existence of God. What you’ve presented is an idea that appeals to you on some level, not a proof. And there’s no such thing as “approaching proof” in philosophy. It is or it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ex\_Machina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/16 "2005-07-08T19:28:49Z")
> [@flight](#): > > If this was the best proof for the non-existence of God, I’d be a Hari Krishna. I said this was _my_ best argument. But if you want to deny that it is the best then don’t just make a disparaging comment, show an argument that is better. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/17 "2005-07-08T19:35:57Z")
Seems to me the “best” argument for the non-existence of God is that there isn’t one single piece of evidence that God exists. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/18 "2005-07-08T19:38:12Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Seems to me the “best” argument for the non-existence of God is that there isn’t one single piece of evidence that God exists. 😃 Nor is there evidence to the contrary. Combining those two facts, if one subscribes to Occam’s Razor, then one might lean towards non-existance, but it’s hardly a “proof”, now, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/19 "2005-07-08T19:40:45Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Seems to me the “best” argument for the non-existence of God is that there isn’t one single piece of evidence that God exists. Well said, for a webbot. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615/20 "2005-07-08T19:42:03Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > It doesn’t. Although it does show that there is no evidence for the existence of God. > > –Cliffy It doesn’t do that either. At best, it only shows that belief in God does not automatically imply God’s existence (duh!). It does nothing to demonstrate that other forms of evidence do not exist. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-best-argument-for-the-non-existence-of-god/311615.md?page=2)