# My birth certificate bond is worth billions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 19, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363 "2015-05-19T14:08:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/21 "2015-05-19T16:26:57Z")
But they quoted George Carlin! That has to make it legitimate! Other than that, it’s all out of the same legal jargon word blender as the nonsense thing about Facebook privacy and the Berne Convention. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/22 "2015-05-19T16:33:44Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Oh, speaking of [Worldtruth.tv](http://Worldtruth.tv), check out the, let’s call it English writing on the “[legal disclaimer](http://worldtruth.tv/legal-disclaimer/)” section of their site. From that disclaimer, boldness added: > [@](#): > > Unless expressly stated to the contrary elsewhere within the WEBSITE, all legal issues arising from or related to the use of the [www.WorldTruth.TV](http://www.WorldTruth.TV) WEBSITE shall be construed in accordance with, and all questions with respect thereto shall be determined by, **the laws of Arbitrary** in the state of New York county of Kings. The laws of Arbitrary. That’s too good to be true. There are no laws of Arbitrary. Arbitrary is an adjective. The noun is Arbitration. Other than that, Arbitrary is the word for everything sovereign citizens say and do, and they do follow arbitrary as if it were a law. Although the site itself is smart enough to want to use a real-life court and set of rules when it comes to its disputes, and not the arbitrary ones they invent. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/23 "2015-05-19T17:58:51Z")
And this is how Cargo Cults work. Some people get the idea that they are being held back from great wealth by people who have figured out how to work teh magick, and so they create elaborate constructs which outwardly mimic what they see the successsful people doing. Instead of bamboo airstrips, the Freemen are making bafflegab “lawyer talk.” Fascinating to study. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/24 "2015-05-19T18:15:00Z")
Fascinating to study, maybe, but not to deal with these mutters, as I have had to do in the past. I’ve also given presentations to lawyer groups on how to deal with them. I’ve got a couple more coming up in a while. Oh well, keeps me busy. (Although the affidavits sworn by them putting drops of their blood on them and using that to make their fingerprints as a seal are creepy and disturbing…) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/25 "2015-05-19T18:23:07Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > (Although the affidavits sworn by them putting drops of their blood on them and using that to make their fingerprints as a seal are creepy and disturbing…) Sounds like good fodder for an art exhibit. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/26 "2015-05-19T18:52:16Z")
If it is true that you could buy anything at any store by giving them your social security number, why don’t we see more people doing this? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/27 "2015-05-19T18:55:00Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > If it is true that you could buy anything at any store by giving them your social security number, why don’t we see more people doing this? Because they’re sheeple. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/28 "2015-05-19T19:00:15Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Because they’re sheeple. And the storekeepers are all facists for not accepting your SSN as payment! ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/29 "2015-05-19T19:00:47Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Fascinating to study, maybe, but not to deal with these mutters, as I have had to do in the past. That’s almost worth an “ask the…” thread. Not that I’d personally ask much beyond “tell us stories of their nuttery” :D. For some reason I find these guys both perplexing and unintentionally hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/30 "2015-05-19T19:05:45Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > If it is true that you could buy anything at any store by giving them your social security number, why don’t we see more people doing this? I believe you have to write “Accepted for value” in blue ink at a certain angle across the bill also. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/31 "2015-05-19T19:08:14Z")
The other thing that makes no sense is that money is a medium of exchange. Piles of billions of Lemurbucks are worth nothing if you can’t exchange them for goods and services. Money that you can’t have, that no one knows about, that can’t be used to exchange for goods and services is not money. Plus, imagine if every US citizen had a secret million dollars in a secret account. There are 300 million US citizens. That’s 300 trillion dollars in secret money. What does that represent? There aren’t 300 trillion dollars worth of assets in America. A dollar is only worth a dollar because you can exchange it for a dollar’s worth of goods or services. If suddenly there were 300 trillion more dollars floating around, but the exact same amount of goods and services the value of a dollar would be inflated to near zero. To get another 300 trillion dollars worth of goods and services we’d actually have to produce 300 trillion dollars worth of goods and services. Those goods don’t magically pop into existence just because we waved a magic wand and created extra dollars by fiat. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/32 "2015-05-19T19:10:40Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > If it is true that you could buy anything at any store by giving them your social security number, why don’t we see more people doing this? And it would require the shopkeepers to know that if anyone comes into the store and charges the purchase to their EIN, then that’s good enough. So anyone who works at WalMart would have to be told about the secret money that some people have. So why don’t those WalMart staffers who work for minimum wage ever try to go over the Target and use their secret money? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/33 "2015-05-19T19:12:07Z")
If I was using my Freemen Infinity Exception Account I probably wouldn’t bother shopping at Target. Just saying. ETA: There are $270 trillion of assets (or thereabouts) in the US, so it’s not that far off $1M per head. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/34 "2015-05-19T19:30:23Z")
Part of the problem with these people is that they’re so totally wrong that you don’t even know where to start refuting what they say. They seem to literally believe that legal documents are like magic spells. Put the wrong flag in a court and obviously the court has no jurisdiction! Put one word out of place in a contract and clearly the whole thing is void! Any time you find “evidence” that they’re wrong, it’s part of the global conspiracy to convince you they’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/35 "2015-05-19T19:46:24Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > The more I read about Freemen, the more I think this is just an elaborate joke conjured up by some pranksters to see how many gullible idiots could swallow such obvious drivel. I think you will find a substantial overlap between people who believe Freemen nonsense and people who get suckered into pyramid schemes and the like. A fantastic way out of the daily grind of existence is a common dream. For some people, it’s so attractive they step over the line into believing it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/36 "2015-05-19T20:25:43Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Part of the problem with these people is that they’re so totally wrong that you don’t even know where to start refuting what they say. It might even be considered [“not even wrong.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong) “It is not only not right, it is not even wrong.” and “What you said was so confused that one could not tell whether it was nonsense or not.” -Attributed to Wolfgang Pauli ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/37 "2015-05-19T21:44:35Z")
This FOTL stuff is sheer Wonderland, with a side trip to OZ. Save your hide, & ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/38 "2015-05-19T21:51:36Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The other thing that makes no sense is that money is a medium of exchange. Piles of billions of Lemurbucks are worth nothing if you can’t exchange them for goods and services. Money that you can’t have, that no one knows about, that can’t be used to exchange for goods and services is not money. That’s just what the Federal Reserve Bank wants you to believe. > [@Lemur866](#): > > Plus, imagine if every US citizen had a secret million dollars in a secret account. There are 300 million US citizens. That’s 300 trillion dollars in secret money. What does that represent? There aren’t 300 trillion dollars worth of assets in America. A dollar is only worth a dollar because you can exchange it for a dollar’s worth of goods or services. If suddenly there were 300 trillion more dollars floating around, but the exact same amount of goods and services the value of a dollar would be inflated to near zero. To get another 300 trillion dollars worth of goods and services we’d actually have to produce 300 trillion dollars worth of goods and services. Those goods don’t magically pop into existence just because we waved a magic wand and created extra dollars by fiat. Pay attention: [QUOTE=nutter] confiscated and outlawed all the gold except for one ounce for each person [/QUOTE] You’re forgetting about that ounce of gold. It really is a hedge against inflation. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/39 "2015-05-19T22:16:01Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It might even be considered [“not even wrong.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong) Yes, exactly that! They make Holocaust deniers look rational by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363/40 "2015-05-19T22:18:50Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > … You’re forgetting about that ounce of gold. It really is a hedge against inflation. Until we invent and produce more goods. And now your personal ounce of gold has to buy twice as much stuff. So it’s worth half as much. Or is that twice as much? Either way your immutable exchange rate of gold to goods just changed. But that’s impossible. But … But … BUT … Cue nutter headsplosions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-birth-certificate-bond-is-worth-billions/720363.md?page=3)