I do too. Must be nice to have a father who will bribe somebody else to do the work for you. :rolleyes:
So what? Others have already pointed out why this literature requirement is still a vital part of his education.
Besides, you can’t treat this as though it would be a victimless crime. Helping this engineering student cheat is grossly unfair to the engineering students who do pour their sweat equity into their literature assignments.
To illustrate, suppose that you have two engineering students taking the same exam. One of the decides to do his work honestly. Another one decides to free up a large block of his time by letting someone else write his term paper. Is that even remotely fair to the student who did his work honestly – especially if they were being graded on a curve (as often happens in engineering courses)?
With all due respect, the fact that you would do it doesn’t make it right.
I think part of the “Oh my God! Cheating” reaction you’re getting is that for some of us, it is that big a deal. In the PhD program I was in, they made it very clear that cheating would get us kicked out, and it made no difference whether we were doing someone else’s work or having work done for us. Getting caught cheating is the kind of thing that can seriously impair someone’s academic or professional career, depending on the field and the school’s plagiarism policy. Most people who’ve spent much time in academic settings have it drilled into their heads that cheating is academically the worst thing you can do.
That’s why you’re hearing from people saying there’s no way they’d do it. It wouldn’t be worth it for us, and it shouldn’t be worth it for an idiot kid for whom the consequences of getting caught cheating are almost certainly worse than the consequences of failing a class. Now, whether it’s worth it for you is another matter. I wouldn’t do it my position, but I guess it might make sense for you to do it in yours, if you really need the money and will face negative consequences from your employer if you don’t do it.
My boss has been doing something unethical (and probably illegal) and has tried to advise others (via me) to do the same to save us a few bucks. I just told her I didn’t feel comfortable doing it. She dropped it at that.
I think you need to ask yourself – do you really want to be “that guy?”
Skald, you clearly know what the right thing is here. Do you need a little cash or a little credit for writing that badly?
I also agree with the posters above who say that it’s going to be harder than you think to not get caught. Sufficiently dumbing-down a paper in a subject you enjoy is going to be painful and difficult.
Just out of curiosity, I wonder what dopers think of this:
I wrote a review of To Kill a Mockingbird on Epinions a few years back. It got a lot of hits and I made some money for it. I received a couple of emails from teachers telling me that their students had plagiarized my work and one that said I should take it down because of the plagiarism potential. It’s still up since I view that plagiarism as the student’s problem, not mine.
Should I have taken it down?
No. It was being used in a manner that is not consistant with the original purpose.
Let me clarify though, if you wrote it and put it up because you knew someone wanted to copy it for the purpose of academic fraud and that’s why you did it then yes you should take it down. I don’t see how you’re responsible for other people stealing your work and commiting fraud with it by claiming it as their own.
No. I agree with you. Selling a paper for the purpose of making money off of students is different from selling and publishing on line. Your obligation is to be ethical. It is not unethical to publish.
skald – Me, I would do the best job I could of selling to the boss-boss “Gee, I really want to help you out, but I’m just swamped right now with personal stuff. I don’t want to do a bad job, so I’d better not. Maybe I could make a few suggestions to him, though, if he has a draft or wants to talk about things.”
jsgoddess– Interesting issue. I’m with you though: it’s not your fault, any more than it’s an encyclopedia’s fault when someone copies it. I’d feel some minor obligation to listen to and act on suggestions for making the review harder to plagiarize (while still being able to be read), but I have no idea what those suggestions could be.
No. EVERY single english/lit teacher I’ve had in high school and college always made it clear what plagiarism is and what the consequences are. If you plagiarize on a paper, you know you are or you’re just a damn moron.
I’m not sure why you mention credit for writing, Marley, since by definition I’d be doing this for NO byline whatsodamnever. I can always use cash, though, particularly since my wife isn’t working this semester.
If I were going to do it (which I doubt), it would be for the joy of the experience, the challenge of getting an A (which would be stupid to aim for, but whatever) and for the cash.
jsgoddess:No, there was no particular reason you should have taken that review down. It is no duty of yours to police plagiarizers.
Adding to jsgoddess’s remark: I’ve ghost-written pieces that appeared on another person’s byline. Not “By **Illiterate & Innumerate Hippie **as told to Skald the Rhymer” – simply “By Illiterate & Innumerate Hippie.” I knew when I took the job (as work for hire) that it would be that way. Does that make me a sumbitch?
Skald, I am hoping you will tell your boss you’re too busy to do this.
I see the point of the argument that a PE won’t need to know kennings any time in their future work.
But I cringe to think of having more construction cranes being operated or inspected by a PE who thinks that it’s fine to buy off “non-essential” courses, or certifications. That’s how one ends up with, say, the head of the NYC office responsible for inspecting crane permits being fired and indicted for taking bribes about those cranes, after several have collapsed.
Engineering is one of those fields where personal integrity can be a matter of life and death. Enough people get killed because of simple, honest errors, let’s not aid and abet creating more funerals because of failures of integrity.
Yeah, this is a bit of an over-the-top argument, but I don’t think it’s invalid for all that.
This is hugely different, IMNSHO. Any effective review of TKAM would satisfy those kids in their desire for an easily glommed essay on the topic. You’re not specifically setting it out there for them to use in that manner - it’s just that your legitimate purpose is being hijacked by some of the people who read it. If you agree with the idea that you should take it off the internet, it would seem to me that that thinking would lead to an entirely content-free internet. Which I would hate.
Quercus, I’m not especially worried about the boss’s reaction. Jim went out of his way to make it clear that I was free to decline, and I’m convinced, given his demeanor, that the “if you have time” remark was calculated to give me an out.
Just to be pedantic, Mika, this wouldn’t be bribery, even if I were going to do it. A bribe is money or favor given to a person in a postion of trust to change that person’s conduct. I am not in a position of trust in this circumstance, as I do not work for the kid’s school and have no obligation to his education.
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The dad (your boss’ boss) is a tool, and is a miserable failure as a parent.
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You have no responsibility to do anything in this situation; it’s not your kid, not your college, etc. For you, this should be a money-making proposition, pure and simple, and the only reason you should turn it down is being uncomfortable adding another layer to your business relationship with your boss. That is, if you turn it down. Personally, I wouldn’t do it, but only because I would find it difficult to negotiate what sort of academic standard was worth what price.
I agree. 2 hrs of intense tutoring should be sufficient to put together a paper. You can assemble your crib notes of ideas for him to work off of. Everybody walks away with their integrety intact.
This could easily be a professional trap where you’re being tested for future promotion. Tell your boss that you’ll do it for a 6 pack of Belguin beer and when he asks for a specific brand tell him Bud light. This makes it a personal favor. The explanation can be that teachers recognize writing style because you’ve had friends who got burned doing this.
Oh, come on. I once ghostwrote a novel for a bestselling author (and, in fact, said novel made the bestseller list). Am I a liar? Did the novelist cheat? Do all the people who bought and read the novel even care?
I really do think the onus of this is on the student. He is a liar and a cheater.
A piece of writing is not an illegal product. It may be unethical to write it knowing it’s going to be presented as somebody else’s work. Are the presidential candidates unethical for paying people to write their speeches and ads? Are they liars and cheats? How about their writers?
You can be sure that “ghostwriting” is explicitly and clearly against the rules of the school. In an English class, this was probably emphasized in the syllabus. So in terms of ethics, he wants a degree from a school and he wants to get it by disregarding its regulations. Anyone who does the ghostwriting must know this, and is supporting the plagiarism.
Anyway Skald, why don’t you just tell your boss that you’ll proofread it and give the son extensive feedback for a much smaller amount of money?
It is known that the speeches are primarily written by speechwriters. They are only liars and cheats if they are reading someone else’s speech and claiming it as their own original product.
Ghostwriting may not be technically unethical, but it always bothers me to find out later that there was one involved. If the work is not the product of the person whose name appears on it then I feel there should be credit noted to the person who did write it.