I used to teach English, both high school and college composition, so rest assured that my “OMG never!” is heartfelt as well as the resignation I would tender to boss after being asked to do such a thing. I’d be very uncomfortable working for someone who asked me to cheat for their kid. I wouldn’t cheat for my own kid or my relatives’ kids.
SpazCat, the matter is moot at this point, but this is not an economy to willingly become unemployed without a much, much better reason than that. I’ve been unemployed, and it sucks, and I was single then. I am NOT going to become unemployed now when I’m supporting my wife. That would be extraordinarily selfish.
Anaamika, I apologize for hijacking this thread to argue over a definitio (as well as the other thread, where you actually complained); and after I write this, I’ll concede the point to you if you wish. I objected to the word “bribe” because of its connotation, not its denotation. Because I am not an employee of the kid’s university, or any university, I don’t feel I have any positive ethical duty to keep the kid from cheating; calling the proffered payment bribery vexed me.
But anyway, I’ll drop the rope.
Skald, buddy, you’re rationalizing. You’re also kidding yourself. You know it’s wrong to write someone else’s paper for them. It doesn’t matter if we call the payment a “bribe”, or “bongo-bongo”. It’s taking money for doing a Bad Thing. Granted, on the scale of transgressions, this is a relatively minor offense. You aren’t beating up little old ladies for their Social Security checks or anything. But there’s no escaping this being a wrongful act. I think maybe that’s why you got vexed. I’m glad you’re not doing it. Hope you’re right about it not being used against you later.
No, no, and again no.
Sure, you might lose your job - but ask yourself what other corrupt, unscrupulous, unethical and/or illegal things does this “boss’s boss” do, and do you want to be beholden to such a person?
I’m fairly sure I am. When I emailed the BossSquared, he replied, “You know, you’re probably right; I was beginning to have similar worries. If you think it’s better to tutor him, and you have the time, we can do that instead.”
I say go for it.
If he wants to pay you to do something you’d enjoy, and you think you can do it, why not.
As I am generally a weisenheimer, I must assure you all informally that what I am about to write.
How, exactly, do you think I would have become unduly “beholden” by doing a favor for the boss’s son? I don’t work in academia; neither does the boss. I’m pushing 40; I’m not about to go back to school. Granted that plagiarism is unethical, but it’s not criminal. “Jim” asked me to leave the office for the discussion because I was busy when he walked up and because I’m a notorious coffee addict. What reasonable motive is he going to have to penalize me for doing a favor for his kid?
If it were a matter of “I need the money to put food on the table” or something similar, I wouldn’t fault you or anybody for that. If it’s just having a little “mad money” then nah, it ain’t worth it to me.
That I can understand. Since it’s just me, I’m a bit more cavalier about such things. If I had a family to support, I’d do it differently. But my hackles would still be raised and the trust and comfort I had in such a workplace would be gone. YMMV.
Never did I say that keeping my job was contingent on my doing the work; it is not. I was responding to the persons who opined that i should quit at the mere suggestion of such a task, as I judge that idea to be unwise. I once quit a job in a snit over a minor issue; that was aggressively stupid, as several months of ketchup soup taught me.
I specifically said that this was not a warning. It’s a heads-up that he is treading a very fine line by accusing everyone in the thread who said that they wouldn’t do what you were asked to do is a liar.
It’s not okay to call one poster a liar. Why, then, would it be okay to call several of them liars?
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to imply that. I meant that if you were at some low-paying job, just struggling to make ends meet, the monetary gain angle would pull more weight with me.
I agree that it isn’t something you should quit over. I hope it’s nothing and it blows over, but I’d watch your back. Of course you know the players in the game here and we don’t…reading between the lines of your posts, I gather you feel reasonably confident that you can decline without repercussions. Cool! That’s what I would do.
Absolutely not. My ethics are not for sale and it’s insulting that a professional would ask me to compromise myself that way.
“I’m sorry, that would be cheating and I’m not going to involve myself in something dishonest.” And I’d pay for my own damn cup of coffee as well.
I was an engineer in college and I wrote my own papers. I was a TA in grad school and I had some students who expressed views similar to what some folks in this thread have espoused, basically “What’s the big deal?” It scares me that those idiots may be responsible for designing the bridge that I drive over one day. If I was interviewing somebody for a job and they had that attitude I would have major doubts about their honesty and integrity overall and that’d be enough for me to reject them.
IMO ethics are a luxury. People do what they need to do to survive, and so they should. The fact that you and I are college-educated puts us in a rarefied stratum to begin with. And there are those who have college educations but may end up in low-paying professions and still pretty much starve, day-to-day.
It would be nice if everyone could follow his/her ethics, but some can’t afford it. I’m not convinced that this is that perfect world. I agree that many don’t realize the line he/she is about to cross, though.
I felt bad for the kid because she was accepted at a really good school on an athletic scholarship and she was a good Hail-Fellow-Well-Met sort of type who wasn’t a scholar, just a very good basketball player. She was an asset to her school, but solely as an athlete. I guess I just wanted her to stay there and go for the team.
Her mom on the other hand was the schemer, I suppose. The daughter just wanted to play sports and go to college. If anything I’d fault the school for handing out a free ride to somebody who they had to know couldn’t make it there academically. I knew the kid and she wasn’t a whiner at all.
I know it’s an intellectual exercise at this point, but my answer would be no, no, and hell no.
#1: It’s unethical.
#2: Your boss’ boss is unethical. Asking this from you, even as a personal matter instead of a professional one, reveals him as such. I wouldn’t quit or anything silly like that - but I’d keep an eye out for him, because he may stab you in the back at some point in the future. Not as revenge for turning him down, but because he doesn’t have any of the scruples that would stop him from doing it, if he wanted you out of the way for some reason.
There’s no difference between “personal” and “professional” ethics, only the risks that someone’s willing to take and the ones that they’re not. I’d bet that he stretches the truth on his expense account and the itemized deductions on his taxes as well. And if he cheats on his wife, he rationalizes it as “what she doesn’t know, won’t hurt her.”
Let’s say he asks you to help his son cheat and you do - and later he asks you to do something else unethical. Or perhaps a “little” illegal. What other shady things is this person involved in?
Cheating is wrong. Period.
Say no.
If he still has ethics of some sort (albeit battered) then he won’t hold it against you but there doesn’t have to be anything “reasonable” about his reactions. He may say he won’t hold it against you and later do so anyway.
And, as a matter of fact, plagiarism CAN be criminal - passing something off as your work when it isn’t is a matter of fraud.
Well, I kind of have a problem rationalising why you think it is OK to write a paper for someone (unaware of which class it was for), but that you also have the right and duty to fail this paper when you come across it? If you felt that it was wrong for them to submit the paper and be marked as if it was their own work, I can’t understand why you would think it would be OK to write someone else’s paper in the first place? Simply a case of NIMBY (Not in my back yard)?
Oh, and well done Skald for not writing the paper and instead using your powers for good. Tutoring him is the right solution - he will learn something, and you may well find you enjoy sharing your knowledge with him almost as much as writing the paper itself.
Mirror or magnifier wanted, choose one.
Brave little boat of integrity buoyant without fame or fortune in the light of reaching what could be
Too easily submersed in the darkness of just like me
One of the problems I have with this is that the boss actually asked you to do this. He could have given his son some money to buy one off a professional cheater paper dude on the internet, yet he chose to draw someone else into his little web of deceit. While I’m sure you would have done a fine job on the paper, you’re not the only person on the planet who could score an A for this kid. He exposed his ethical shortcomings and…well…misery loves company.
He also did his son a terrible disservice by even mentioning the fact that HE was willing to plagerize a paper. Why not get a T-shirt with an arrow that says:
I'm with Incompetent Kid ----->