# My brother-in-law is trying to kill himself with the power of prayer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369 "2008-12-02T17:57:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/201 "2008-12-05T16:47:54Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > We need a Solomonic mod who can cut this thread in half, send the witnessing to **GD** , and keep the Pitting here. Sometimes we are called to go down into a pit to slay a lion ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/202 "2008-12-05T16:53:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I see. If this was a scientific study I guess the medication would be a confound, since if somebody is pure of heart but takes his meds just to be safe, we wouldn’t know if he was cured by divine intervention or the medication that works on just about everybody regardless of their holiness. I guess so [QUOTE=Jack Battey] Translation: Pray. Why paint this dopey picture? [/QUOTE] It is because it’s not praying blindly, but with the full understanding that yes indeed, though we can not see it, we have the access to come boldly before the Throne of Grace and present our petition. This is literally what we are doing, approaching the King of the universe to hear us. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/203 "2008-12-05T16:53:57Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Sometimes we are called to go down into a pit to slay a lion [The last guy that did that died.](http://www.religionnewsblog.com/14864/lion-kills-man-who-said-god-would-save-him) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/204 "2008-12-05T16:56:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Sometimes we are called to go down into a pit to slay a lion Mind you don’t harm yourself doing it, but Piss Off. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/205 "2008-12-05T16:56:35Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It is because it’s not praying blindly, but with the full understanding that yes indeed, though we can not see it, we have the access to come boldly before the Throne of Grace and present our petition. This is literally what we are doing, approaching the King of the universe to hear us. No it isn’t. You don’t seem to have a grasp of what “literally” means. All of the activity you are describing is occurring no where but in your head – or in your heart, if you must cling to dopey imagery. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/206 "2008-12-05T16:58:31Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I rebuke your curse in the name of Lord Jesus and his authority. On the basis of Deuteronomy 23:5 In the name of Jesus that curse is transformed into a blessing. I don’t think so. [Deut 23:5](http://www.gospelhall.org/bible/bible.php?passage=Deut+23%3A5&search=&ver1=kjv&ver2=&commentary=&submit=Search) says no such thing: [[QUOTE=www.gospelhall.com](http://QUOTE=www.gospelhall.com)] Nevertheless the LORD thy G-d would not hearken unto Balaam; but the LORD thy G-d turned the curse into a blessing unto thee, because the LORD thy G-d loved thee. [/QUOTE] G-d turns Balaam’s curse into a blessing of G-d’s own volition, not on the basis of some puny human’s claiming that right for himself. In any case, given your previous assertions regarding divine intervention and healing, don’t you have to petition G-d with a pure heart and ask G-d to lift the curse for you? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/207 "2008-12-05T17:03:31Z")
Why is anybody continuing to argue with **kanicbird**? I would think that by now it would be understood that such a deep level of belief/delusion (take your pick, based on your personal opinions) is impervious to logic. Just smile, nod, and ignore his posts. Personally, I can’t tell if he’s truly so involved with his personal belief system that he’s serious, or running a pretty intense joke on a message board known for its skepticism. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/208 "2008-12-05T17:09:40Z")
You’re right, of course. I’m even about 75% convinced it’s some Kaufmanesque gag, and yet I still contribute. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/209 "2008-12-05T17:09:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Your prayers have been answered, **kaylasdad99**! Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA! Rhymers don’t answer the prayers of the just. We worth for Morgorth. I’ll thank you to remember that. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/210 "2008-12-05T17:23:56Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I have went through some of the trials of Job. It really really sucks huge donkey balls. Something I never want to go through again, nor do I want anyone else to. But it’s not up to me, so I praise the God who gives and takes away. > [@](#): > > God allows the wicked to prosper for a time, in hopes of repentance, but His wrath does come to them. Your God is an abusive asshole and you remind me of several women I’ve known who don’t feel their boyfriend loves them unless he’s insanely jealous and beats them once in awhile. I keep hearing that God is love but that is not how you treat the ones you love. Yeah, I’ve read Job, you don’t need to quote it at me. Job loved his abuser, that doesn’t make the relationship OK. Frankly, I find any sort of prostelytizing offensive, as it is banned by _my_ faith, so please cease and desist directly Bible quotes at me. I’ve read the book, I still have a copy on my shelf of myths right next to the one with the Greek Gods and the Norse Sagas. Which is where it belongs - with the other fiction books. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/211 "2008-12-05T17:30:46Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA! > > Rhymers don’t answer the prayers of the just. We worth for Morgorth. I’ll thank you to remember that. Yahbut… remember that, in the Song of the Ainur, Morgoth’s theme eventually is taken up and incorporated into the them propounded by Iluvatar. Despite Dante, Milton, and Zoroastrian influence, we don’t at rock bottom believe in Dualism. Smart man, that Tolkien!! ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/212 "2008-12-05T17:58:20Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I rebuke your curse in the name of Lord Jesus and his authority. On the basis of Deuteronomy 23:5 In the name of Jesus that curse is transformed into a blessing. Uh, okay. I don’t think you know what “rebuke” means, but I’m not totally surprised. You’re still an idiot. > [@Giraffe](#): > > Easy, guys. Disagree with **kanicbird** all you want, but let’s hold off on hoping he dies. Understood. Though in my defense I said nothing of the sort; clearly **kanicbird** feels strongly about this, and I was merely expressing a desire that he someday be able to furnish solid proof supporting his claims. > [@E-Sabbath](#): > > > [@kanicbird](#): > > > > I was stating my experience with God curing me. How it worked for me, and what I believe was the most critical factor - the motivation of the heart. I was also stating don’t just jump off life saving medications in faith. I was stating that there is a God that may cure him, but also stating that he should look at his approach in coming to God and reconsider the motivation behind it. > > Okay, guys. Now that kanicbird has stated this, can you disagree with it? Yes. There is no God, to say nothing of one that may or may not use magic to heal a pancreas, at this point nothing but medication and dietary management will do anything for diabetes, and it’s a mark of astonishing and willful ignorance to think otherwise. Praying to anyone or anything is a complete waste of time. People who say otherwise are causing great harm by giving people false hope that will never, ever be realized. Ta-da! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/213 "2008-12-05T18:08:51Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Yahbut… remember that, in the Song of the Ainur, Morgoth’s theme eventually is taken up and incorporated into the them propounded by Iluvatar. > > Despite Dante, Milton, and Zoroastrian influence, we don’t at rock bottom believe in Dualism. Smart man, that Tolkien!! You get 10 points for the dualism, but you missed out on 15 for missing the Family Guy reference. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/214 "2008-12-05T18:13:48Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > I don’t think so. [Deut 23:5](http://www.gospelhall.org/bible/bible.php?passage=Deut+23%3A5&search=&ver1=kjv&ver2=&commentary=&submit=Search) says no such thing: > > G-d turns Balaam’s curse into a blessing of G-d’s own volition, not on the basis of some puny human’s claiming that right for himself. In any case, given your previous assertions regarding divine intervention and healing, don’t you have to petition G-d with a pure heart and ask G-d to lift the curse for you? Should we use j-s-s too? b-dd-? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/215 "2008-12-05T18:16:03Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > Should we use j-s-s too? > b-dd-? No, because this is a Jewish custom, and I believe it developed after Christianity split off from the mother faith. As observant Jews do not, by definition, believe that Jesus was in any sense divine, and observant Christians have no particular problem writing the word “God,” there is no reason to do. Lobsters are still wrong, though. And don’t get me started about Big Macs. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/216 "2008-12-05T18:24:26Z")
"Dear God. Thanks for the blown pancreas. I’ve learned my lesson now. Could you please see your way clear to replace my shot beta cells before my legs rot, my kidneys shut down, and I have a stroke like my extremely devout, Christian mother, who prayed desperately to you for years, before dying in extreme agony? No? Then fuck you." ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/217 "2008-12-05T18:29:10Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Easy, guys. Disagree with **kanicbird** all you want, but let’s hold off on hoping he dies. What about a _really_ uncomfortable rash in a _really_ inconvient, embarassing place? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/218 "2008-12-05T18:29:50Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Why is anybody continuing to argue with **kanicbird**? I would think that by now it would be understood that such a deep level of belief/delusion (take your pick, based on your personal opinions) is impervious to logic. Just smile, nod, and ignore his posts. > > Personally, I can’t tell if he’s truly so involved with his personal belief system that he’s serious, or running a pretty intense joke on a message board known for its skepticism. I’ve been wondering that myself. He’s either, as you say, deeply delusional/strong in his faith or a big fat troll. One thing I’ll say for him, though - he writes wonderfully. Kudos for that, **kanicbird**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/219 "2008-12-05T18:47:15Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > I don’t think so. [Deut 23:5](http://www.gospelhall.org/bible/bible.php?passage=Deut+23%3A5&search=&ver1=kjv&ver2=&commentary=&submit=Search) says no such thing: > > G-d turns Balaam’s curse into a blessing of G-d’s own volition, not on the basis of some puny human’s claiming that right for himself. In any case, given your previous assertions regarding divine intervention and healing, don’t you have to petition G-d with a pure heart and ask G-d to lift the curse for you? I don’t do it in my own name but in the Name of Lord Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/220 "2008-12-05T18:51:28Z")
I bet Jesus is wondering how he gets the spokespersons he gets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369.md?page=12)