# My brother-in-law is trying to kill himself with the power of prayer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369 "2008-12-02T17:57:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/41 "2008-12-02T22:55:01Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > God never forbade learning and knowledge. Spoken like a someone entirely innocent of Pentecostal churches. Consider [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10384173&postcount=1)post, about some other relatives of mine who belong to the same church. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/42 "2008-12-02T22:56:43Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Yeah, I know. I expect when he got the “borderline” diagnosis he had a fasting blood glucose of 190 or something. Throw out the old saying, “God helps those who help themselves.” I hate to see you give up on him, considering what you’ve been through. Living with diabetes is not easy, but you can live with it, and you are a shining example. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, this is the same minister who, a few years back, said, in my uncle’s eulogy, that all fags are doomed to hell–WHILE MY UNCLE’S SON, WHO WAS DYING OF AIDS, WAS IN THE FRONT ROW. The next time I saw said minister was after my cousin’s death, and I told him what a miserable fuckwit he was and how in a just world he’d be beaten to death by a random mugger. Consequently I am…dubious…that he’d talk to me now. Good for you. 😃 If he has that attitude, then chances are he wouldn’t be a good person to talk to about this. ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/43 "2008-12-02T22:57:30Z")
My uncle died a few months ago. He’d been having arrythmia and was on several medications which were controlling the condition. This runs in the family – my dad had a heart attack about ten years ago as well. Dad’s meds and the other care he received has left him with no problem since. Unfortunately religion also runs in the family. The new church my uncle started going to said that god would heal you, or would take you home when it was time. So guess what my uncle did? Went off his meds, like a fucking idiot. He died in a hotel room a very long way away from all of his family. My uncle had four daughters and a wife who had followed him all over the world. He had responsibilties; he had love; he had a huge extended family as well who were grief-stricken. My dad in particular still can’t hardly talk about it. Now, instead of thinking “damn, that was stupid,” my aunt and cousins are all saying that god loved him and has welcomed him home with open arms. I know this is part of the grieving process, but damn. Fucking waste of life. I seriously can’t stand this type of religious nonsense. Stupid. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/44 "2008-12-02T22:58:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There’s not much else you can do. If idiots want to delude themselves like this, that’s just Natural Selection in action. Too late. He’s already reproduced. Sorry for your sister and niece, **Skald**. ETA: I wonder if an attitude of not wanting to pay for diabetic supplies is a factor in his approach? ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/45 "2008-12-02T23:21:49Z")
When I first started practicing a few years ago a 65-ish-year-old woman came in with her daughters in tow. When I asked her if she had diabetes, she said “Not anymore.” I started to ask her what she meant by that, and her daughter made an excuse to get me out into the hallway and fill me in. It turns out that this patient had been diagnosed with diabetes many years back and took medicine for a few months. Then she spoke with her pastor about it, and according to her, they asked God to cure her diabetes. And He did. She didn’t care what those tests showed–after all, was she going to put her trust in the doctors and their tests, or God? What’s more, anytime a doctor questioned this–by, say, pointing out that her blood sugar was 425, or that she couldn’t feel anything in her feet–she wanted nothing else to do with him and refused to go back to see him. They were hoping that I would do what I could to treat her associated conditions without ever mentioning the “D” word while they kept trying to reason with her. It was an interesting ethical dilemma, and I decided that I would do what I could for her, but I never saw her again. She must have smelled the skeptic in me. If she had said that Regis Philbin came to her in a dream and told her that her diabetes was cured, I could have considered her delusional and tried to get her some help for that. But since it was Jesus who told her instead of Regis, I was expected to dance around it. Wish I had some advice for you. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/46 "2008-12-02T23:25:04Z")
Couldn’t you have told her that Jesus appeared to you in a dream and commanded you to treat her diabetes? ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/47 "2008-12-02T23:33:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Sometime after that, one of my brothers-in-law, “Ed,” was diagnosed as being “borderline diabetic.” That’s a phrase my doctor hates, by the way; she calls it the “let’s engage in denial for as long as possible to maximize the patient’s chances of losing a foot” diagnosis. It’s a useful concept to describe the narrow band of people whose glucoses are not normal but not high enough for a diagnosis of diabetes (that is, a fasting glucose over 126\*). The more technical term is impaired glucose tolerance (IGT). It’s mostly useful for billing and coding purposes, because I wouldn’t treat a patient with a fasting glucose of 120 differently from one at 130. But you’re right–a lot of people interpret “borderline diabetes” as “diabetes that I don’t have to do anything about”. - There are other definitions, but this one is the most commonly used. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/48 "2008-12-02T23:58:15Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Sorry for your sister and niece, **Skald**. Pretty sure it’s his wife’s brother, not his sister’s husband. The religious side of his family is his wife’s side, particularly her uncle. What I don’t get is why does the guy assume that God wants him alive? How does he know he isn’t praying to God to save him and God’s going “Oh hell no, I want you dead, you miserable creep.” God kills “the faithful” all the time. Why is he so worthy of salvation? **Skald** , please ask why this guy thinks he’s special. Tell him the more he prays, the more God cries that he’s not in heaven with him and will just “call him home” faster. I wanna know what happens with that. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/49 "2008-12-03T01:47:47Z")
What would he say about First Corinthians, chapter 12? Oh, and this is KJV: I know how a lot of CoGiC churches feel about other translations. “4”: Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. “5”: And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. “6”: And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. “7”: But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. “8”: For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; “9”: To another faith by the same Spirit; **to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;** “10”: To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: “11”: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. God gave different people different gifts. He did not give me the power to heal, either in the spiritual sense or physical sense. He gave me enough knowledge so I could take care of my child. But He gave others that power, both for spiritual and physical healing. And I believe doctors were given that gift. I will be in prayer for him, that God gives him some common sense and he gets to a doctor post haste. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/50 "2008-12-03T02:16:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Unfortunately, this is the same minister who, a few years back, said, in my uncle’s eulogy, that all fags are doomed to hell–WHILE MY UNCLE’S SON, WHO WAS DYING OF AIDS, WAS IN THE FRONT ROW. Just out of curiosity, how the heck do you get from “X was a good man, lived a good life, and leaves behind many people whose lives were better for knowing him” to “FAGS GO TO HELL! HELL, I TELL YOU!”? It doesn’t seem to _work_, ya know? Also - can you talk to your sister? I know she’s deeply religious, too - but might she take you seriously enough to drag her husband to the doc? What a horrible situation. It boggles my mind that someone would behave like this. Might it be worth pointing out to your BIL that he’s being a dick? I mean, when he collapses and has to be rushed to the ER in an ambulance, he’ll be taking up a lot of time and resources, and the efforts of highly trained and busy people, that could be used to save the lives of people who _couldn’t_ have saved themselves by exercising some damn common sense. One other thought: Might part of the issue be that the guy just hates needles? Maybe a new, less painful monitor would help. Or not - I’m not a diabetic, so I don’t know how much these things hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/51 "2008-12-03T05:08:49Z")
I don’t know how this could be done, but pastors like that should seriously be charged with harming other human beings. Assault with a Godly weapon? ---
**Author:** ![MadPansy64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@MadPansy64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadPansy64)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/52 "2008-12-03T05:33:12Z")
Damn, your family makes mine seem almost (not quite, but _almost_) sane. My most sincere sympathies. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/53 "2008-12-03T18:19:11Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Pretty sure it’s his wife’s brother, not his sister’s husband. The religious side of his family is his wife’s side, particularly her uncle. No, it’s my sister’s husband. Both our families are religious, and though they would likely disagree on issues of doctrine (pre-millenniarmism versus post-millennarism :rolleyes:), my father and Kim’s uncle would agree that all healing ultimately comes from God. In fact, this was recently a bone of contention between Pere the Rhymer & me. (His sister (my one surviving aunt) is past 80 and on dialysis; he and Kim had taken her to her appointment one day. When I saw them later, I commented that my aunt was not going to get better; this angered Dad, who felt I was showing a lack of faith in God by entirely discounting the possibility of faith healing. On the other hand, my dad thinks Ed should go to the freaking doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/54 "2008-12-03T18:28:05Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > One other thought: Might part of the issue be that the guy just hates needles? Maybe a new, less painful monitor would help. Or not - I’m not a diabetic, so I don’t know how much these things hurt. Not much - it’s literally just a pin prick. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/55 "2008-12-03T18:42:40Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > Not much - it’s literally just a pin prick. Yep. The pain is trivial, even if you go the fingertip rather than belly route. And you can buy a perfectly servicable meter from Walgreens for 20 bucks, a meter whose strips cost about $60 for a pack of 100–enough to test 3 times a day for a month. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/56 "2008-12-03T18:50:29Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Yep. The pain is trivial, even if you go the fingertip rather than belly route. And you can buy a perfectly servicable meter from Walgreens for 20 bucks, a meter whose strips cost about $60 for a pack of 100–enough to test 3 times a day for a month. Covered by most insurance plans! My co-pay is $25. And they paid for the meter! (HMO) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/57 "2008-12-03T18:51:59Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > Not much - it’s literally just a pin prick. Yeah, but you may feel a little sick. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/58 "2008-12-03T18:55:10Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Covered by most insurance plans! My co-pay is $25. And they paid for the meter! (HMO) Oh, I know most insurance copays will cover it. And you can get a name brand meter free by asking for it straight from Bayer, as they make their money on the strips. My point is that EVEN IF YOUR INSURANCE DOES NOT COVER IT (my previous job did not), it’s a long way from being a crippling expense for most people. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/59 "2008-12-03T23:11:15Z")
You know, it’s threads like this that make me feel better about the appalling health statistics in this country. I am comforted by the knowledge that ignorant fundamentalists make up a significant percentage of those dying of treatable illnesses, so the odds that it will happen to me or those I love is much lower than the national statistics would suggest. You mallet-headed god-botherers just keep eating your fried dough and singing hallelujah, it is no skin off my nose. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/60 "2008-12-03T23:25:07Z")
I will give you my experience and understanding about using the power of God in getting off medication, addictions, and healing chronic conditions. It works for some but It’s up to God, not us. It may be immediate, but it may come years later. It may involve God clearing up other aspects of your live first. It’s not up to us to command God, even in great faith, for you to be cured now, though we can certainly ask. And in my experience God will tell you when it is OK to go off the medicines and you will know it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369.md?page=4)