# My brother-in-law is trying to kill himself with the power of prayer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369 "2008-12-02T17:57:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/161 "2008-12-05T13:09:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What colossal arrogance! How can you attribute the healing to having sought the lord? According to you, all things happen according to god’s will, yet for some reason, miraculous cures happen more often to people who seek the lord. How is this not believing that man can change the will of god through faith and prayer? God’s will seems to ebb and flow, according to how much devotion he feels from his flock. What a weak, irresolute being you have chosen to place your faith in. God will work in the life through those who seek Him and walk in His ways. If we go away from His ways, and stop seeking Him through prayer, God lets us, and then we do things our way. Even for the believer it’s still man’s choice to make, do we want God’s way or man’s way. The will of God is that man walk in God’s ways, but He will allow man to walk in man’s ways. So man blocks the blessings of God by turning to man instead of God. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/162 "2008-12-05T13:14:26Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Right. Now. If someone is sick. Let’s say they have… oh, I dunno. Disease X. Disease X will kill them in about a week. Ninety nine point nine percent chance. Or they can go to the doctor and get a course of antibiotics and be fine in a week. > Or they can pray for a miracle that might or might not happen, dependent on, not themselves, but the Lord. > Of course, there’s also the one in a thousand chance of survival without the Lord’s blessing. > From your perspective, what should they do? > Once again, I’m still trying to see your perspective on this. It really is a bit foreign to me. If it were me, seek the Lord for direction, and until something is received from Him to start on the reasonable path to take the medications. As I have stated, I am not recommending stopping medications, I am recommending if you want divine help seek the Lord through prayer, not seek the cure though prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/163 "2008-12-05T13:16:25Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The condition that God cured for me was ADHD, it was cured through prayer, totally and completely… I notice that your re-tread Babylonian storm god didn’t cure you of being a fucking moron. Couldn’t he have done both at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/164 "2008-12-05T13:19:11Z")
> [@Khan](#): > > [Incorrect.](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/adhd/complete-publication.shtml#pub8) > > **Kanicbird** may call me a junkie if he wishes, but, in the matter of putting the brakes on my own “racecar brain” I have more faith in the efficacy of (dextro)amphetamine than in the holy trinity. > > At any rate, do Pentecostals take communion? Perhaps a tablet of metformin could be blessed in place of a wafer? No I don’t consider you a junkie, you are doing what you can to deal with what life has given you. I suspect you are doing the best you know how to do - given we are humans with weaknesses and sometimes fail in that effort, and the most reasonable path you can see. And Pentecostals, at least one church does have communion. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/165 "2008-12-05T13:29:47Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The will of God is that man walk in God’s ways, but He will allow man to walk in man’s ways. So man blocks the blessings of God by turning to man instead of God. So god’s will is powerless against unbelievers. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/166 "2008-12-05T13:34:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Kanicbird** > > …If you believe in God, and that God created the earth, then why are there so many cures to be found here, that can be used to create medicine, that so many people learn to do so? Why don’t you believe God is working through others?.. God does work through others all the time. God looks at the heart, the motivation behind our actions. Is the reason for the production of that medication love for your fellow man, or is it money, or other? What is your doctor’s motivation? If it is done out of Love, then I would say that is likely something of God. If it is for another reason, like money (or things money can buy), that that medicine was done to another ‘god’ the worship of money in this case. God’s word says we reap what we sow. And just like farming, we reap more then we sow, and latter then we sow. If we in our live worshiped money, placing money above God, then that’s what will come around us, people who worship money, which may be bondage to pharmaceutical companies. I don’t know if that’s your case, but if it is, perhaps you can see how God is using it in your life - AGAIN THIS IS A ASSUMPTION, NOT A ACCUSATION. You need this medication and are suffering with this condition. But even in your suffering, you are experiencing Love, as people did have to carry you into bed to recover. These people care about you. teaching you what really is important in life. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/167 "2008-12-05T13:37:50Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So god’s will is powerless against unbelievers. In many ways God’s power is more so with the unbelievers, watching over their ways to give them the best chance of coming to Him and protecting them from much that could happen. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/168 "2008-12-05T13:43:30Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > In many ways God’s power is more so with the unbelievers, watching over their ways to give them the best chance of coming to Him and protecting them from much that could happen. My point is, do you believe god’s will is immutable, or does he change his mind depending on the prayers of men? If it is god’s will that I am cured of cancer, why does that depend on how fervently I ask for his blessing? God either wills it or he doesn’t; in either case, my prayers make no difference to a god who is not vain and indecisive. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/169 "2008-12-05T13:45:11Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Neither, it is man’s way that causes this, not God’s. Ah, I see. So when good things happen it is because it is God’s will but when bad things happen it is because of the way of man.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/170 "2008-12-05T13:56:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > My point is, do you believe god’s will is immutable, or does he change his mind depending on the prayers of men? If it is god’s will that I am cured of cancer, why does that depend on how fervently I ask for his blessing? God either wills it or he doesn’t; in either case, my prayers make no difference to a god who is not vain and indecisive. Within God’s will contains different paths we can chose to take: [QUOTE=Deuteronomy 30:19] This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live [/QUOTE] Some issues of our past we suffer with. God may or may not cure them. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/171 "2008-12-05T13:59:10Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > Ah, I see. So when good things happen it is because it is God’s will but when bad things happen it is because of the way of man. Well not exactly, as God disciplines those He loves. And scriptures speak of situations of the wicked prospering, at least for a time, while the righteous are oppressed and crying out to God. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/172 "2008-12-05T14:13:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Some issues of our past we suffer with. God may or may not cure them. I thought god would forgive anything, if asked. If the pious ask forgiveness, and seek god’s blessings, why are their prayers not answered? Why is god’s will immutable toward the pious who pray, but not toward the sinner who turns away? Why do good things happen to bad people? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/173 "2008-12-05T14:18:56Z")
I’m absolutely convinced that \*\*kanicbird \*\*is putting us on. No one can be this friggin’ dense and still have the brain power left over to operate a computer. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/174 "2008-12-05T14:46:16Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Some issues of our past we suffer with. God may or may not cure them. > [@](#): > > Well not exactly, as God disciplines those He loves. And scriptures speak of situations of the wicked prospering, at least for a time, while the righteous are oppressed and crying out to God. So, basically, you can be good, do good, and pray all you want but whether or not God will help you or put you through the trials of Job is a crapshoot. He tortures the faithful, rewards the wicked, and imposes suffering on the innocent. That’s NOT how you treat people you profess to love. Your God is an asshat - what the fuck good is such a capricious entity? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/175 "2008-12-05T15:22:14Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I’m absolutely convinced that \*\*kanicbird \*\*is putting us on. No one can be this friggin’ dense and still have the brain power left over to operate a computer. You’ve never met my eldest brother. I’ve heard him spout the exact some lunacy when he’s not talking about how his church does “reparative therapy” to cure homosexuals of their sinful desires. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/176 "2008-12-05T15:28:07Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > If it were me, seek the Lord for direction, and until something is received from Him to start on the reasonable path to take the medications. > > As I have stated, I am not recommending stopping medications, I am recommending if you want divine help seek the Lord through prayer, not seek the cure though prayer. So, if you have diabetes, and you’re experiencing symptoms, you _should_ do what the doctor says, and take the medicine the doctor gives you? And, also, pray. Then what the heck were you saying earlier? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/177 "2008-12-05T15:43:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I thought god would forgive anything, if asked. If the pious ask forgiveness, and seek god’s blessings, why are their prayers not answered? Why is god’s will immutable toward the pious who pray, but not toward the sinner who turns away? > > Why do good things happen to bad people? All sins can be placed on Jesus if we ask Him. This is forgiveness and gets us eternal life. This, by itself, does not take away the consequences of the sins, though God sometimes will do that as well, and in eternal life all will be placed on the cross. Jesus in His life on earth healed some people, we can assume that some people were still not healed (though I can’t point to a scripture on this aspect). It’s up to Him who gets healed, believer or unbeliever. Yes we can petition God to perform a healing, and He very well may do it, but the condition of the heart, the motivation of the asking had to be pure. This is what your BiL is trying to do, he wants to be cured by prayer. His best chance IMHO is to walk in God’s ways as that will produce blessings, one which may be healing. As a believer He can come to the Throne of Grace through Jesus and present His request. This puts him in a very favorable position for God to grant that request. I also believe if he seeks a cure through prayer, but does not put God first. If the request is granted, he may find himself in a worse position then if he just dealt with the illness. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/178 "2008-12-05T15:46:10Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Yes we can petition God to perform a healing, and He very well may do it, but the condition of the heart, the motivation of the asking had to be pure. This is what your BiL is trying to do, he wants to be cured by prayer. His best chance IMHO is to walk in God’s ways as that will produce blessings, one which may be healing. As a believer He can come to the Throne of Grace through Jesus and present His request. This puts him in a very favorable position for God to grant that request. This has what to do with taking medication now? ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/179 "2008-12-05T15:48:20Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > All sins can be placed on Jesus if we ask Him. This is forgiveness and gets us eternal life. This, by itself, does not take away the consequences of the sins, though God sometimes will do that as well, and in eternal life all will be placed on the cross. > > Jesus in His life on earth healed some people, we can assume that some people were still not healed (though I can’t point to a scripture on this aspect). It’s up to Him who gets healed, believer or unbeliever. > > Yes we can petition God to perform a healing, and He very well may do it, but the condition of the heart, the motivation of the asking had to be pure. This is what your BiL is trying to do, he wants to be cured by prayer. His best chance IMHO is to walk in God’s ways as that will produce blessings, one which may be healing. As a believer He can come to the Throne of Grace through Jesus and present His request. This puts him in a very favorable position for God to grant that request. > > I also believe if he seeks a cure through prayer, but does not put God first. If the request is granted, he may find himself in a worse position then if he just dealt with the illness. I really hope you get the chance to personally test your theories with a real, life-threatening disease someday. With, say, AIDS, or pancreatic cancer, or something of that sort. It would be God giving you the chance to prove us heathens wrong! Meaning you’re an asshole and a fuckwit and I hope you suffer tremendously with it, and someday, as life slips away from you, you realize how terribly wrong you were, and your last thoughts on earth are of absolute dispair. Jackass. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369/180 "2008-12-05T15:59:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So, basically, you can be good, do good, and pray all you want but whether or not God will help you or put you through the trials of Job is a crapshoot. I have went through some of the trials of Job. It really really sucks huge donkey balls. Something I never want to go through again, nor do I want anyone else to. But it’s not up to me, so I praise the God who gives and takes away. From Job: [QUOTE= Job 2] 9 His wife said to him, “Are you still holding on to your integrity? Curse God and die!” 10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish \*\* woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said. [/QUOTE] Which was exactly what I was being tested in. > [@](#): > > He tortures the faithful, rewards the wicked, and imposes suffering on the innocent. That’s NOT how you treat people you profess to love. Your God is an asshat - what the fuck good is such a capricious entity? God allows the wicked to prosper for a time, in hopes of repentance, but His wrath does come to them. The Book of Habakkuk addresses this exact issue, Here is some verses as to the issue and the Lords answer to the question: > [@](#): > > \*\* > Man’s complaint:\*\* > 1:2a How long, O LORD, must I call for help, > but you do not listen?.. > 4b The wicked hem in the righteous, > so that justice is perverted. > 13b Why then do you tolerate the treacherous? > Why are you silent while the wicked > swallow up those more righteous than themselves? > 2:1b I will look to see what he will say to me, > and what answer I am to give to this complaint. > **The Lord’s Answer:** > 3 For the revelation awaits an appointed time; > it speaks of the end > and will not prove false. > Though it linger, wait for it; > it [c] will certainly come and will not delay. > 6 "Will not all of them taunt him with ridicule and scorn, saying, > " ‘Woe to him who piles up stolen goods > and makes himself wealthy by extortion! > How long must this go on?’ > 7 Will not your debtors [f] suddenly arise? > Will they not wake up and make you tremble? > Then you will become their victim. > 10b shaming your own house and forfeiting your life. > 16 You will be filled with shame instead of glory. > Now it is your turn! Drink and be exposed [g] ! > The cup from the LORD’s right hand is coming around to you, > and disgrace will cover your glory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-brother-in-law-is-trying-to-kill-himself-with-the-power-of-prayer/475369.md?page=10)