# My cat caught a bird. Should I punish her? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 20, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629 "2011-05-20T22:42:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/61 "2011-05-23T14:55:48Z")
Maybe we are lucky that our cat is unusually trainable, but trainable is what he seems to be. I have never had cats before though, so I have nothing to compare it against (except dogs, which not very helpful). Anyway he used to bring us presents - generally mice and voles - but once we caught him mouse in mouth in the act of clambering through his cat flap. Mrs NQK balls him out with a high volume “NO!!!” and he turns around and goes back out through that cat flap like one of those missiles being launched from a submarine. He has never brought a mouse (or indeed anything else) in again. Got back late during the week to find Ginge playing with a mouse on the back step. I suggest we leave him to it (in part that the mouse will probably have a heart attach as a result of the attack anyway). But he likes being with us, so clearly he decides to finish the game. We hear a loud crunch as we are unlocking the back door, turn around and Ginge is just swallowing. Down in One! Well, at least he remembered he was not allowed to bring them in… ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/62 "2011-05-23T22:16:32Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Why all the anger? Who is “pissing on here” about cat’s getting sick. Perhaps people should consider the health of their pets? “…indoor cats live longer than their outdoor counterparts. Cats who are kept indoors can reach the ripe old age of 17 or more years, whereas outdoor cats live an average of just two to five years. Another reason for indoor cats’ longevity is that it’s easier for their owners to identify health problems early, before they become life threatening.” [link](http://www.medicinenet.com/pets/cat-health/should_you_have_an_indoor_cat_or_an_outdoor_cat.htm) > [@](#): > > And I dunno, but to all intensive porpoises, “outside” is now the natural habitat for cats where I am. Sure maybe millenia ago the came from Egypt (I dunno if acccurate or not, I can’t be arsed researching) but I am looking at now. I remembered North Africa from somewhere, but looks like that’s incorrect, Google says Middle East. In any event, your cats are not a natural part of your local environment. I think you’re kidding yourself. > [@](#): > > NOBODY I knew growing up had an inside only cat. It simply didn’t happen. And even feral cats were not sickly or anything else - yeah, many were carriers of feline flu or whatever it’s called, but that didn’t end their lives. Nobody I knew growing up put their kid in a car seat. I’ve never personally seen a baby propelled through a windshield - yeah, many kids got injured in car accidents while riding unrestrained but that didn’t kill them outright. > [@](#): > > And for what its worth, none of our cats got injured from wandering outside - but they did like to bring us rabbits, birds and mice. 😃 I take it from the smiley that you think that’s cute. I happen to like birds and bunnies\*, even field mice are good because they are prey for owls and hawks and such. IMO, your cat is a nuisance and I wish you’d care for it better. It probably would live at least twice as long, if you care about that. \*Rabbits are fine where they’re native. Nobody wants them around in Australia because they’re an invader species and a pest, much like cats. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/63 "2011-05-24T01:58:16Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > I happen to like birds and bunnies\*, even field mice are good because they are prey for owls and hawks and such. And cats. I had cats growing up; we didn’t exactly decide they would be outdoor cats, they just started escaping at a certain age. My previous cats was an outdoor cat (born feral, no chance of keeping that one inside) and live 12 or 13 years. I have every intention of keeping this new cat an indoor cat, but the decision will not rest with me, but with the cat. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/64 "2011-05-24T06:40:02Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Perhaps people should consider the health of their pets? > > “…indoor cats live longer than their outdoor counterparts. Cats who are kept indoors can reach the ripe old age of 17 or more years, whereas outdoor cats live an average of just two to five years. Another reason for indoor cats’ longevity is that it’s easier for their owners to identify health problems early, before they become life threatening.” [link](http://www.medicinenet.com/pets/cat-health/should_you_have_an_indoor_cat_or_an_outdoor_cat.htm) > > I remembered North Africa from somewhere, but looks like that’s incorrect, Google says Middle East. In any event, your cats are not a natural part of your local environment. I think you’re kidding yourself. > > Nobody I knew growing up put their kid in a car seat. I’ve never personally seen a baby propelled through a windshield - yeah, many kids got injured in car accidents while riding unrestrained but that didn’t kill them outright. > > I take it from the smiley that you think that’s cute. I happen to like birds and bunnies\*, even field mice are good because they are prey for owls and hawks and such. IMO, your cat is a nuisance and I wish you’d care for it better. It probably would live at least twice as long, if you care about that. > > \*Rabbits are fine where they’re native. Nobody wants them around in Australia because they’re an invader species and a pest, much like cats. Considering the cat in question lived a good 12 or 13 years I don’t think that’s too bad. And if you find mice and rabbits cute, then I urge you to go take a look at pictures of MacKenzie Country, or what rabbits have done to South Otago. They are a damn freaking menance. And cute or not - Rabbits make damn fine eating in any case. Cry me a damn river if our cat catches a pest and exterminates it. I would much rather have a pet that can get outside and “enjoy” hunting for 13 years than same damn poor feline that is kept as a soft toy. But hey - each to his own. Here’s an idea - why not follow what is right for you? So long as your pet is healthy and apparently happy - what business is it of anybody else to piss and moan? In my experience, cats live long and happy lives by being hybrid indoor outdoor cats - so I follow that. If where you’re at, outdoor cats die in 5 years, then keep the blardy thing indoors. Would that be a plan? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/65 "2011-05-24T10:31:03Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Considering the cat in question lived a good 12 or 13 years I don’t think that’s too bad. And if you find mice and rabbits cute, then I urge you to go take a look at pictures of MacKenzie Country, or what rabbits have done to South Otago. They are a damn freaking menance. I mentioned that rabbits aren’t a good thing everywhere and used the example of Australia. That’s a double example, because feral cats are a recognized problem. “The feral cat is found in most habitats across Australia. It has caused the extinction of some species on islands and is thought to have contributed to the disappearance of many ground-dwelling birds and mammals on the mainland. On islands, feral cat control is feasible, but elsewhere management is difficult due to the lack of effective and humane broadscale control techniques, and the **presence of domestic cats**.” [PDF link.](http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/cat/pubs/cat.pdf) I bolded the last part to draw your attention to how having outdoor cats contributes to the problem. If everyone kept their pet cats indoors, feral cats would be easier to control. > [@](#): > > And cute or not - Rabbits make damn fine eating in any case. Cry me a damn river if our cat catches a pest and exterminates it. Rabbits are, I’m presuming, a pest in your area because native predator species have been either deliberately wiped out, lost their habitat, or couldn’t get food. Oh, the birds you mentioned your cats killing, are those all pests too? > [@](#): > > I would much rather have a pet that can get outside and “enjoy” hunting for 13 years than same damn poor feline that is kept as a soft toy. I’m curious about the quotes there around “enjoy”. Do your cats not really enjoy hunting? “Hey there, Mr. Whiskers, what are you up to?” “Ugh, I have to go hunting. It sucks ass, but if I don’t vomit up a mole or sparrow on the carpet at least once a week I just don’t feel right.” > [@](#): > > But hey - each to his own. Here’s an idea - why not follow what is right for you? So long as your pet is healthy and apparently happy - what business is it of anybody else to piss and moan? Great thinking, I’ll follow suit by raising jackals in my unfenced backyard so long as they’re happy and healthy. Honestly, I don’t like asking for cites, but you’re just repeating yourself. How about you provide a cite that cats only, or even mainly, kill pests if allowed to roam? How about a cite to counter the one I provided earlier, the one that claims that the life expectancy of an indoor-only cat is about double that of an outdoor cat? Certainly, you have experience with cats, I don’t dispute that, but as I pointed out, there’s nothing in my personal experience to suggest that there’s any reason to put kids in car seats. I can also find examples of smokers who lived past the average life expectancy, does that make smoking harmless? > [@](#): > > In my experience, cats live long and happy lives by being hybrid indoor outdoor cats - so I follow that. If where you’re at, outdoor cats die in 5 years, then keep the blardy thing indoors. Would that be a plan? I find it hard to believe that even if you live on the most rural area that you’ve never even once seen a cat that’s been flattened by a car or truck. It’s nice, I guess, that your cats have been lucky. Better for birds, though, if they hadn’t. **j66** – that’s unusual. Most kittens aren’t clever enough to outsmart a human. Did it manage to talk you out of getting fixed, too? ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/66 "2011-05-24T23:56:59Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > On islands, feral cat control is feasible, but elsewhere management is difficult due to the lack of effective and humane broadscale control techniques, and the **presence of domestic cats**." Hmm. Might one suggest that domestic cats are unlikely to contribute to feral cats if they are fixed? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t fix a cat, indoor or outdoor. > [@](#): > > **j66** – that’s unusual. Most kittens aren’t clever enough to outsmart a human. Did it manage to talk you out of getting fixed, too? Might I ask to which of my comments this snarky little comment refers? I don’t recall mentioning kittens. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/67 "2011-05-25T14:50:33Z")
“Might one suggest that domestic cats are unlikely to contribute to feral cats if they are fixed?” The problem is that government employees sent to kill ferals have to discern if the cat they’re going to shoot, poison, fry is really for real feral or a “pet” that somebody pretends to care for. I was snarking about you saying the cat makes the choice to be an outdoor cat or not, but I should check. “the decision will not rest with me, but with the cat” Oh snap, that’s what you actually said. Cats are about the stupidest animal you’d ever want to meet, why would you let them make your decisions? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/68 "2011-05-25T22:47:25Z")
> [@phantom\_lamb](#): > > I wonder how many of those people who claim “you should never punish a cat for doing what it naturally does” would say the same if it were the case of a dog killing stray cats, an instinct lots of dogs have unless they were brought up to behave differently. :: raises hand :: I dislike dogs, of course, so I don’t tolerate one being a resident in my house, but I won’t argue that a dog killing a cat is doing anything other than acting natural. And it’s not going to be fruitful to try to punish the dog after the fact for doing so. If you own a pet, you must keep it restrained appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/69 "2011-05-26T00:16:44Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Cats are about the stupidest animal you’d ever want to meet, why would you let them make your decisions? First you don’t read what you comment on. Then you make unsupported and indefensible inferences. Managing to sneak out a door is an attribute of speed, not intelligence. Yeah, I’m not as fast as a cat, and I’m not afraid to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/70 "2011-05-26T12:07:29Z")
I’m way faster than a cat. And I read what I comment on. You don’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/71 "2011-05-26T12:20:09Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > But hey - each to his own. Here’s an idea - why not follow what is right for you? So long as your pet is healthy and apparently happy - what business is it of anybody else to piss and moan? Other people not restraining their pets becomes my business when I have to deal with the consequences. I have no issue with people letting their cats out as long as they’re confined to/ stay in their own property. When the cat’s coming over to my yard and shitting in my garden and killing the birds I feed, I have an issue. Luckily, where I live now I haven’t seen an outdoor cat for AGES, because my neighbors are considerate. This was not the case when I lived in a more urban area. If people let their dogs roam the neighborhood, crap all over, and kill whatever they could get a hold of, others would be livid, and rightly so. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/72 "2011-05-27T00:29:37Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > I’m way faster than a cat. And I read what I comment on. You don’t make sense. Good for you. Except I do make sense so I doubt you are faster than a cat. So go away. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/73 "2011-05-27T01:10:03Z")
Cat: [48 kph](http://www.speedofanimals.com/land) Human: 45 kph ([and only if you’re an olympic sprinter](http://www.petsdo.com/blog/top-twenty-20-fastest-land-animals-including-humans)). If you’re an average human… > [@](#): > > the average top speed of an in shape male human being is between [24-29 kph]. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629/74 "2011-06-02T15:43:05Z")
I’m an average human, but I race average housecats. I almost always win. Mostly they hide under the couch when I fire the starting gun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-cat-caught-a-bird-should-i-punish-her/582629.md?page=3)