# My children's school principal: Go to hell and burn. Slowly. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010 "2010-11-17T18:53:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/261 "2010-11-22T23:00:31Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > speaking as someone who does sit down and talk to these kids, rather than just labeling them monsters, I can tell you that a good number of them are acting out because their own lives are really fucked up. So: What, according to your opinion, should one then do to _prevent_ said fucked-up persons from fucking up (with a capital “f”) the lives of other children who are completely without responsibility for said fucked-up persons’ fucked-up lives? Because that is exactly what they do. Every day. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/262 "2010-11-22T23:00:36Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Just so I’m clear, you are in fact saying that it’s ok to use a child as a means to an end? > So, if I see your child picking on another kid (and believe me, it happens-- even the little quiet kid will occasionally speak up and call their classmate “retarded” or a Neanderthal), it’s ok for me to rip them a new one in the middle of class and totally humiliate them for being so stupid as to think that was an ok course of action? If justice is proportional, do I get to call your kid a retard for saying such a thing? Where does it end then? > I don’t know about you, but that’s awfully dehumanizing in my mind- using a child as a means to an end. That’s why I try not to do it unless I feel it’s absolutely necessary. Frankly, Yes. That is what ALL children need from time to time. It is a swift, and thorough lesson that that what they did was NOT cool. Even if it is is the star kid, who never causes trouble, and generally is kind to his or her peers who does it. The point is to drive home that they must be mindful as much as they can be at all times of others. A quick reality check does that far more thoroughly than any heart to heart ever can. I had a few good teachers who would do just this sort of thing, and they administered it fairly, and impartially. THAT is what made them great teachers. You could trust them BECAUSE of that. They might be tough, but they were fair. If you were a little shit, it didn’t matter who you were, or how you usually behaved, you got the same dressing down as everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/263 "2010-11-22T23:08:20Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > So: What, according to your opinion, should one then do to _prevent_ said fucked-up persons from fucking up (with a capital “f”) the lives of other children who are completely without responsibility for said fucked-up persons’ fucked-up lives? Because that is exactly what they do. Every day. Well, this is where you and I differ, I guess. I’m going to err on the side of caution. There’s no harm in pulling the kid aside and talking to them, but there may very well be harm to that kid (and to the class, honestly- we already talked about the distraction point) if I intentionally humiliate them in front of the class. I’d rather talk to them and know what’s going on- there’s usually a reason they are acting out. And for the thousandth time, let me reiterate for those that are skimming the thread: _I do sometimes read kids the riot act in class if they are picking on other kids_. My point is simply that you can’t assume that is always the right answer. Have you ever had a “bully” talk to you in tears about his step father raping him? How about a kid whose mom beats him so badly she broke one of his ribs and refused to take him to the hospital? I have. I’ll never forget it either. That shit sticks with you. You know what that taught me? That sometimes there’s a lot more to the equation than a kid just being a douche. Is that always the case? Na. Most of the time even? Na. But why risk it with a blanket policy of public humiliation? I’ll be the first to protect someone being bullied as loud and as hard as I can, but my job isn’t just to protect the weak-seeming kids, it’s to protect all of the kids. If you’re wondering when I do shut the kids down in the middle of class, it’s once I know them well enough to know that they are just being douches and are acting out for the sake of acting out. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/264 "2010-11-22T23:11:26Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > **2square4u** says “corporal punishment and an eye for an eye bitches!!!111!1!1” > [@Norse](#): > > Cite, please With pleasure: > [@Norse](#): > > And since some of those Neanderthals **understand only power and uncomfortable sanctions** , some of the reactions have to be downright uncomfortable for said Neanderthals. As a bonus, we (i.e. I and/or my child) **get our revenge**. But that’s definitely a secondary priority. Bolding mine. > [@Zebra](#): > > Can you grasp the fucking irony that you are spewing with this argument? You are basically saying “I don’t believe you that nobody believed you.” I’m sorry that you feel that nobody believed you, or that nobody listened to you. Your emotions does not mean that’s the whole story, the whole picture, or anyone else’s perspective but your own. The human mind can easily concoct their own “reality”. Many people have exhausted themselves in telling you that teachers do pay attention and it’s difficult for them to see bullying sometimes. It must be pointed out. Again, teachers aren’t psychics or assholes; they call it when they see it but often need to have it pointed out. They are basically good people. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/265 "2010-11-22T23:19:39Z")
**lindsaybluth** : If you equate “uncomfortable sanctions” with [corporal punishment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment), I dunno, but I guess I feel sorry for you. And I sincerely hope you don’t have children, because adults should never apply violence to children. Ever. Disregarding morality, it sets a bad example > [@Norse](#): > > And now, to return to the topic of this thread, schools should IMNSHO have a judicial system which **deters** bullies. And since some of those Neanderthals understand only power and uncomfortable sanctions, some of the reactions have to be downright uncomfortable for said Neanderthals. **As a bonus** , we (i.e. I and/or my child) get our revenge. But that’s definitely **a secondary priority**. Bolding mine ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/266 "2010-11-22T23:20:22Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > They are basically good people. Which is the crux of this. Either all people- teachers included- are basically good people or we can take the Hobbesian perspective that we’re all a bunch of douches. But teachers, bullies, and victims are all human beings, so the rules that govern the humanity of one apply directly to the other two. There’s no special case. > [@Norse](#): > > **lindsaybluth** : If you equate “uncomfortable sanctions” with [corporal punishment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment), I dunno, but I guess I feel sorry for you. And I sincerely hope you don’t have children, because adults should never apply violence to children. Ever. Disregarding morality, it sets a bad example I’m not being snarky at all, but you did say English isn’t your first language, so. . . maybe you’re missing the connotation of what the word “revenge” actually means. She was exaggerating with the corporal punishment bit, but you are basically saying an eye for an eye. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/267 "2010-11-22T23:27:41Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > **lindsaybluth** : If you equate “uncomfortable sanctions” with [corporal punishment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment), I dunno, but I guess I feel sorry for you. And I sincerely hope you don’t have children, because adults should never apply violence to children. Ever. Disregarding morality, it sets a bad example > > Bolding mine Hey man, I’m not the one condoning violence. I think I’ve been smacked across the face once for being exceptionally mean to my mother and never again. If I don’t have kids, it’ll be one less very smart and fairly attractive kid out there. But maybe it’s the language issue. Revenge is usually physical in nature. Even if you’re mentally screwing with them (what revenge might also imply), that’s not the answer either. As **Diosa** has faithfully pointed out time and time again, there is often OTHER SHIT going on in the bully’s life that means punishing them publicly or humiliating them or retaliating against them in some ways is _not the answer_. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/268 "2010-11-22T23:32:20Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Even if you’re mentally screwing with them (what revenge might also imply), that’s not the answer either. In fact, I’d say most people here would agree that mentally screwing with someone is far worse than actually physically screwing with them. At least, that’s usually what people say when they talk about being bullied-- it was the mental stuff that was far worse than being hit. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/269 "2010-11-22T23:34:58Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Revenge is usually physical in nature. I beg to differ, but this may be a USA/Europe kind of issue. Our judicial system won’t fry, gas, poison or shoot people, not even serial killers, over here. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/270 "2010-11-22T23:47:11Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > With pleasure: > > Bolding mine. > > I’m sorry that you feel that nobody believed you, or that nobody listened to you. Your emotions does not mean that’s the whole story, the whole picture, or anyone else’s perspective but your own. The human mind can easily concoct their own “reality”. Many people have exhausted themselves in telling you that teachers do pay attention and it’s difficult for them to see bullying sometimes. It must be pointed out. Again, teachers aren’t psychics or assholes; they call it when they see it but often need to have it pointed out. They are basically good people. I never said they were all bad people. Show me where I fucking said that. You step into the middle of this and you totally believe what Diosa has said I said but you don’t believe me when I tell you I never said it. I never said all teachers are bad. Never did. Quit fucking insisting I said that. I challenged Diosa to back up her claim that I said teachers can’t be trusted and she couldn’t do it. Then again I never denied that some teachers are bad. That the posters telling their stories are not liars or simply didn’t understand the whole truth of the situation. Please show me where I said all teachers are bad. Your next post should show that quote or be an apology. I’m really sick you assholes putting words in my fucking mouth. At least MeanOldLady didn’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/271 "2010-11-22T23:49:46Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I never said all teachers are bad. Never did. Quit fucking insisting I said that. I challenged Diosa to back up her claim that I said teachers can’t be trusted and she couldn’t do it. Yes, I did actually. But hey, at least you’re not calling me what you called **MeanOldLady** earlier. You probably realized that’s against the rules, though, so good for you. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/272 "2010-11-22T23:55:23Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Yes, I did actually. > > But hey, at least you’re not calling me what you called **MeanOldLady** earlier. You probably realized that’s against the rules, though, so good for you. You think you backed up that claim? You did not. You could not show the post where you I said students should not go to teachers. You are delusional. Stick to telling lies about yourself and leave me out of it. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/273 "2010-11-22T23:56:49Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > You think you backed up that claim? You should come teach my rhetoric and argumentation class- you’re really good at this. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/274 "2010-11-22T23:57:00Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Fuck you, **xenophon41.** > [@Zebra](#): > > So I guess **MeanOldLady** is code for **StupidFuckingCunt**. > That’s right, I called you cunt. But you won’t let that bother you since you don’t have that victim patterns that make others weak and to blame for everything others do to them. Reminder: [QUOTE=Restricted language in the Pit] The following expressions should not be directed at other posters. cunt and variants, e.g., cuntlapper * * * fuck you [/QUOTE] [Restricted language in the Pit - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858) Please choose other insults next time. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/275 "2010-11-23T00:05:20Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Your next post should show that quote or be an apology. I’m really sick you assholes putting words in my fucking mouth. At least MeanOldLady didn’t do that. Dude, **Diosa** already did. This conversation has pretty much reached a standstill. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/276 "2010-11-23T00:23:39Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Dude, **Diosa** already did. This conversation has pretty much reached a standstill. No she didn’t. She totally edited and misinterpreted what I said in post 200. (which was a reply to a previous post so you should read both of those to understand what I was trying to say there) She also stated that before post 200 I had posted over and over and over about teachers being bad and untrustworthy but refused to provide a cite. You skimmed the thread. Did you see me doing that? If she is going to translate my demonstration of what a victim feels, the isolation they feel and then twist the use of the word ‘nobody’ to mean teachers, she is really fucking reaching but not getting there. So now you linsdaybluth have said I said that but you too, refuse to provide a cite. that’s it. I am fucking done with this thread. I truly have better things to do than to deal with a bunch of fucking liars. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/277 "2010-11-23T02:02:49Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Yup. I call bullshit. It’s POSSIBLE, but it’s also tremendously unlikely. > > \ > > And yes, I realize most are going to come in and say, “But Diosa! You’re clearly one of the FEW GOOD teachers.” Are you? Are you _really_? Why should I believe you any more than you believe me? How do I know that you don’t dismiss the complaints of victimized kids the way you’ve dismissed mine? > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > And to that I say: bullshit. You’re attacking my coworkers, my friends, and even members of my family. Do you people even realize what would happen if what you’re saying DID regularly happen and other teachers heard about it? Nothing, apparently. That’s certainly what happened when my parents complained. After all, since according to you teachers are such noble and self sacrificing people they can’t possibly be guilty of any such things and the kid making the complaint is obviously a liar. You make me think of “Principle Moonbeam” (called that by kids and parents alike) back from high school, who was in complete denial of how bad things were, of what was happening. Whose means of “dealing” with problems like fights was simply denying that fights ever happened at his school. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/278 "2010-11-23T02:31:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You make me think of “Principle Moonbeam” (called that by kids and parents alike) back from high school, who was in complete denial of how bad things were, of what was happening. Whose means of “dealing” with problems like fights was simply denying that fights ever happened at his school. Principal. And have you read any of my posts in this thread? I have no idea how bad it is, seriously? Alright. I’m sure you work within the schools each day, so you probably know just as well as I do what’s going on. Probably more so, since I’m deluded by my sunshine, rainbows, and students who get their ribs broken by their parents. Just like I told **zebra** , I’m sorry you were bullied. I wish I could have been there to help you and I’m sorry someone else didn’t. I hope you take what happened to you and use that pain to help you help other kids, so they don’t suffer like you did. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/279 "2010-11-23T07:10:05Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I’m deluded by my sunshine, rainbows, and students who get their ribs broken by their parents. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes a bully is just a bully. The bully _may be_ a victim, but the bully’s victim _is_ a victim. Because of the bully’s behavior, a behavior which is completely unacceptable no matter what. There is no justification for bullying. Period. Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable behavior, regardless of what the perpetrator thinks or feels. By making allowances for borderline unacceptable behavior, we silently approve completely unacceptable behavior. I’ll even make the WAG - based on anecdotal evidence only, but probably quite relevant for the neighborhoods I’ve been living in - that the majority of bullies are just bullies, and only a minority of them are victims themselves. I’ve seen too many complete assholes who come from (apparently) well-adjusted, well-off families. I’ve seen one or two who had developmental problems or had a family background which put them in the high-risk-of-going-to-hell-group, but the majority have just been complete assholes. Period. ---
**Author:** ![enigmatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@enigmatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigmatic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/280 "2010-11-23T07:10:44Z")
Diosa, I can readily believe that the majority of teachers have the best of intentions and an appropriate attitude to bullies. Nevertheless, I was let down many, many times by teachers, most of whom were basically good people, for reasons detailed in my last post. There were definitely times when going to a teacher for help turned out to be a very bad decision and I can think of only a couple of times when it actually helped. In general teachers do not perceive the full extent of the problem, and just like they don’t get to see every instance of bullying, they don’t see every poor decision made by other staff members either. It doesn’t take much for a member of staff to be perceived as joining in attack on a pupil, what could be an offhand remark, or a casual joke made about one pupil, will be whispered all over the school as “Mr so and so said” before the end of the day when made about another. It also doesn’t take much to betray a trust, HR staff receive careful training and resources to enable them to properly and confidentially deal with complaints (or at least they should, lets keep the argument about that out of this thread) teachers don’t. I realised even at the time that some of these bullies have a crappy home life, were abused even, I can even feel sorry for them now at a safe distance. At the time I was more worried by the fact that they were broken, outright sociopathic, dangerously unpredictable, and abusing ME right then and there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010.md?page=15)