# My children's school principal: Go to hell and burn. Slowly. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010 "2010-11-17T18:53:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/301 "2010-11-23T21:38:14Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Only when you don’t want to give the impression that you’re telling someone that this is what they should do, with the implication that they’re not already doing it. I suppose I don’t disagree with you, but it seems others got what I meant. I guess it goes to show you that perceptions aren’t always reality, no? Your perception of my tone, my perception that I have a basic grasp on the English language. Etc and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/302 "2010-11-23T21:39:06Z")
I never metaconversation I didn’t like. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/303 "2010-11-23T21:39:54Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I never metaconversation I didn’t like. In Soviet Russia, conversations meta you. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/304 "2010-11-23T21:47:33Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I suppose I don’t disagree with you, but it seems others got what I meant. I guess it goes to show you that perceptions aren’t always reality, no? Your perception of my tone, my perception that I have a basic grasp on the English language. Etc and so forth. One person got what you meant. The person you were talking to read it the same way I did. Other people are mum on the subject. FWIW, I don’t think your response was out of line in the least–just that it was very much not what you apparently intended it to be. (And part of me thinks that you did mean it exactly the way I think you did, but now you’re feeling bad about getting even mildly snarky in retaliation to snark aimed at you. 😃 I mean, it even makes sense in context–\*\*Zebra \*\*makes a sarcastic comment about you being better than him, and you respond by saying, “You have the capacity be just as awesome as I am, and here’s how to do it.”) ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/305 "2010-11-23T21:49:53Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > FWIW, I don’t think your response was out of line in the least–just that it was very much not what you apparently intended it to be. (And part of me thinks that you did mean it exactly the way I think you did, but now you’re feeling bad about getting even mildly snarky in retaliation to snark aimed at you. 😃 I mean, it even makes sense in context–\*\*Zebra \*\*makes a sarcastic comment about you being better than him, and you respond by saying, “You have the capacity be just as awesome as I am, and here’s how to do it.”) If I’ve made one thing apparent in my long tenure on this board, its been that I basically never feel sorry for the horrible shit I say. It’s a gift, it is. 😛 Though I suppose I did apologize earlier for misunderstanding someone’s tone, but I’d argue that’s a little different. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/306 "2010-11-23T21:52:48Z")
Yes, I wouldn’t have expected that from you, either. I figured maybe you just saw a kid get hit by a bus and you [del]were so tired from giggling[/del] were so moved that you decided to take pity on some message-board ranter. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/307 "2010-11-23T21:55:07Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Yes, I wouldn’t have expected that from you, either. I figured maybe you just saw a kid get hit by a bus and you [del]were so tired from giggling[/del] were so moved that you decided to take pity on some message-board ranter. 😃 Na, I was amped up on the adrenaline rush of beating up one of the nerdy, gay kids with the rest of my super cool kid debate team- nothing can bring me down! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/308 "2010-11-24T02:47:19Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > This is not only counterfactual, it’s dangerously irresponsible counsel. > > If your approach actually worked for you, I’m happy it did. But you were lucky in several ways. > > You were lucky you had the ability to beat the bully physically. Most victims of bullies don’t have the ability to turn intimidation around, or the opportunity to complete such an assault. And even if the victims has such unlikely ability and opportunity, most fights don’t actually result in a clear winner (but usually have two or more losers), nor do they often change the essential relationship between combatants. > > You were lucky you were interacting with a bully without friends or accomplices. Most so-called bullies aren’t lone actors. Bullying is almost always enabled, either as part of group behavior or by implicit/explicit pack support of the bully. > > Most of all, you were lucky the bully’s fear of you didn’t override his fear of other consequences (probably from school authorities) and therefore he didn’t exact revenge or punishment or otherwise dispose of you as a menace. Unless you’re Joe Badass (or have a reliable support group around you), you don’t want to scare a bully. You don’t want people prone to violence interested in you in general, but you really don’t want them thinking you’re a problem for them. > > Please note that I’m not suggesting physical response is never called for. I’m not suggesting potential or ongoing victims knuckle under to bullies or that they take no action. I’m merely saying that ‘deliver unto the bully a righteous smackdown,’ although an emotionally satisfying and neatly simplistic maxim, isn’t a particularly useful one in most actual encounters. > > Really, using existing authorities (either through direct appeal to them or by using their existence as a deterrent) should be the default, in school and later in life. The option to respond in kind will still be there, but every kid should be taught that there are other less risky methods of changing the situation. Like walking the fuck away from fights. That’s not comforting, but it’s a lot healthier in the long run. Actually, I was not interested in scaring any of them. I wanted them to bleed, and they did - just like anyone else. Up until that point there was always one asshole or another. Once they figured out I was not playing, and would not back down, they went looking for easier targets. That pattern has never changed for me, whether it was in grade school, high school, the Army, or work. The worst ones only understand force. Every time I tried to cut any bully some slack for any reason - in school, on the job, whatever, THEY always escalated it. Somehow, “I am going to tear your fucking heart out and feed it to you” gets instant attention. When they see you really intend to do it, they leave you alone. That never changes. Added on edit: I walked a way from a fight once. I got jumped from behind for my troubles. Next time I attacked on sight and we “came to an understanding” right then and there. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/309 "2010-11-24T03:29:25Z")
Wow. So, you’re saying the constant pattern in your life is one bullying asshole after another who just won’t stop escalating things until you make them bleed? Have you ever explored ways of breaking that pattern that don’t depend on the other guys not pissing you off? Just to be clear (and so I don’t seem all armchair psychologisty here), what I’m suggesting is that there’s a chance your perception that you’re being victimized by these guys would look really different from a neutral observer’s viewpoint. And I only suggest that because you’ve said it’s a constant pattern in your life to “have” to deal physically with aggressors. This _ **may** _ mean you’re one of those ‘prone to violence’ guys I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/310 "2010-11-24T03:43:41Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > One person got what you meant. The person you were talking to read it the same way I did. Other people are mum on the subject. A couple of things. 1 - A simple statement like, “I love peanut butter” will be misinterpreted by _someone_. Even though I easily understood her intent, because you and **Ze** -“I’ll overreact to everything”- **bra** didn’t, that doesn’t count. The fault for misinterpreting her couldn’t be on _your_ end, could it? Of course not; that would involve admitting you were wrong. Which is a perfect demonstration of how you missed my point. Isn’t it funny how **Diosa** didn’t intend an insult at all, but **Zebra** (and you) misinterpreted it as a bitchy slam. Your perception of her intent was _wrong_; incorrect perceptions just happen to be what several people in this thread have mentioned in regards to how bullied kids _can_ be perceiving things incorrectly themselves (like how “no one” cares at all, the teachers obviously see what’s going on and they don’t do anything, the teacher _encourages the bullies to “keep him/her in line”_, that there is no way that the bullied kid could _ever_ (even unintentionally) done anything obnoxious or rude themselves. Even later as an adult, refusing to even consider that perhaps those bullies were asshole kids who then grew up to be normal, decent human beings instead of complete monsters). You two read an insult where _there was none_. But, after **Diosa** confirmed there was no intended snark, instead of calmly doing the equivalent of, “oh, my bad. Misread (this part)”, you diplomatically say > [@](#): > > Then you need to stop using the command forms of verbs when you’re really trying to say, “I suppose this might be how you are” instead of “this is what I think you should do.” Seriously, how is this even up for discussion? and > [@](#): > > (And part of me thinks that you did mean it exactly the way I think you did, but now you’re feeling bad about getting even mildly snarky in retaliation to snark aimed at you. When faced with the person flat out _telling_ you what their intention was, you are aggressive in return and even say part of you still thinks she _really_ meant what you thought she meant. Your interpersonal communications (and not just in this thread) are aggressive and extremely myopic. 2 - Your protective and defending attitude towards bullied kids in this thread is… hilariously incongruent with your messageboard persona, which is all about being a caustic asshole at the littlest provocation… which often makes you look like a bully yourself when you post.. ---
**Author:** ![PeteLikesBikes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/85f322/32.png) [@PeteLikesBikes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeteLikesBikes)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/311 "2010-11-24T03:55:55Z")
As someone who was bullied through elementary school and middle school I can relate, and I’m so sorry it has to happen to your kid or any other kid. The scars are there forever. I’m 36 and I still bear them. As an educator, I’m outraged. That principal and every teacher in that school should be brought to bear the responsibility of their inaction. We suspend immediately at the first sign of bullying. Yes, with 300 students we don’t always see it right away, but we keep our ears and eyes open and remain constantly vigilant. I’m so sorry that you and the kid are going through it. Document and be the squeaky wheel. If the principal doesn’t listen, go up the ladder. Someone somewhere wants to know that this is happening. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/312 "2010-11-24T04:00:07Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Heh. > > Here’s a thought for all of us: can we concede that no one is blaming victims, no one is calling for coddling or ignoring bullies, and no one is calling for summary executions of bullies by jackbooted teachers? jackboots are hot ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/313 "2010-11-24T04:08:59Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Just to be clear (and so I don’t seem all armchair psychologisty here), what I’m suggesting is that there’s a chance your perception that you’re being victimized by these guys would look really different from a neutral observer’s viewpoint. And I only suggest that because you’ve said it’s a constant pattern in your life to “have” to deal physically with aggressors. This _ **may** _ mean you’re one of those ‘prone to violence’ guys I’m talking about. Good point. If you consistently 1 - have aggressors\* that 2 - you “have” to deal with physically… try pondering what (or… who) is the common denominator in these situations. Kind of like the Nice Guy who says that all women are shallow bitches who go for bad boys or the woman whose relationships are _always_ with men who turn abusive.\*\*\* - Past freaking high school, even? \*\* At _work_? \*\*\* and no, I’m not saying that woman “deserves” to be with an abuser. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/314 "2010-11-24T16:10:30Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Which is a perfect demonstration of how you missed my point. Isn’t it funny how **Diosa** didn’t intend an insult at all, but **Zebra** (and you) misinterpreted it as a bitchy slam. I never said it was a “bitchy slam.” I thought it was a mildly snarky and clever retort. I also don’t think that she was saying \*\*Zebra \*\*wasn’t a good person–simply that she was taking his sarcastic insult, which implied that she wasn’t one, and turning it back on him to suggest that he turn his negative experiences into a motivation to do something positive. > [@](#): > > You two read an insult where _there was none_. But, after **Diosa** confirmed there was no intended snark, instead of calmly doing the equivalent of, “oh, my bad. Misread (this part)”, you diplomatically say 1.) The former is just plain factual. That’s how language works. “Do x” is a command. “Doing x” is the progressive aspect. The former implies that you’re not doing something currently; the latter indicates that it’s an ongoing action. l2englishkthx 2.) The latter was a joke, as you well know, since you conveniently left off the smiley at the end. > [@](#): > > Your protective and defending attitude towards bullied kids in this thread is… hilariously incongruent with your messageboard persona, which is all about being a caustic asshole at the littlest provocation… which often makes you look like a bully yourself when you post.. You’re a retard. I say what I want to say instead of being polite and diplomatic when I think someone is full of shit, in the Pit. I almost never abuse people just for the sake of abusing them.\* Because _that’s what this forum is for_. Anybody who posts in this forum is agreeing to partipate; any time they want it to stop, all they have to do is \*stay out of the Pit \*and post in the other 91 2/3% of the board. I enjoy my freedom from having to censor myself in this one, small area. Outside of the Pit, you won’t see it. I’ve never gotten a single warning from a moderator, and the only note I ever got was when I forgot that the “address the argument, not the person” restriction didn’t carry over to calling something a lie (i.e., you can neither call someone a liar \*nor \*call what they’re saying a lie). Anybody who comes into the Pit and whines about being mocked for saying something stupid is an idiot. \*Extremely rare exceptions are people I find absolutely loathesome, like \*\*curlcoat \*\*and **Rand Rover**. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/315 "2010-11-24T16:23:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I also don’t think that she was saying Zebra wasn’t a good person–simply that she was taking his sarcastic insult, which implied that she wasn’t one, and turning it back on him to suggest that he turn his negative experiences into a motivation to do something positive. Exactly the way I interpreted it. But I’ll take **DB** ’s word that she meant it a bit differently. People say things clumsily or inartfully pretty damn often, particularly in quickly composed posts. It’s not like we’re writing research papers when we comment on a message board. > [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Your protective and defending attitude towards bullied kids in this thread is… hilariously incongruent with your messageboard persona… Eh, not really. People can speak (or post) meanly toward people they feel particularly deserving of vitriol and yet be concerned on behalf of people they feel don’t deserve having been attacked. This is one of the points the teachers have made over and over (heh heh) in this thread: kids behaving badly toward other kids don’t often see themselves as the bad guy, and when they draw a response do tend to see themselves as the victim. And as we find later in life, that perception problem doesn’t end in school. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/316 "2010-11-24T16:36:07Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Exactly the way I interpreted it. But I’ll take **DB** ’s word that she meant it a bit differently. Indeed. Which is why I made sure to \*specify \*exactly why I read it the way I did–so that she’d know how to avoid people making the same misinterpretation in the future. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/317 "2010-11-24T17:02:50Z")
If you guys don’t stop talking all nerd-like, I’m going to use my vast teacher powers to summon the cool kids to come give you all a bunch of swirlies. Your choice. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/318 "2010-11-24T17:13:26Z")
Gah. Debate nerds don’t scare me, lady. I been worked over by _band geeks_. (Once you’ve had a cornet cold-cocking catastrophically crinkle your cornea, you learn to walk with an ear out for danger and keep a beat or two ahead of it.) (Oh, and strangely, you start to speak aliteratively.) ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/319 "2010-11-25T02:32:24Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Gah. Debate nerds don’t scare me, lady. I been worked over by _band geeks_. (Once you’ve had a cornet cold-cocking catastrophically crinkle your cornea, you learn to walk with an ear out for danger and keep a beat or two ahead of it.) (Oh, and strangely, you start to speak aliteratively.) You keep that up, and we’ll have to see if you fit inside a sousaphone case. Experimental evidence suggests the answer is “probably”. –Z, band geek, Don of the Cornet Mafia. Interestingly, band harassment never struck me as bullying, mostly because stuff that falls under the category of “tit-for-tat hijinks” doesn’t strike me as such, either. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/320 "2010-11-25T20:43:10Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Wow. So, you’re saying the constant pattern in your life is one bullying asshole after another who just won’t stop escalating things until you make them bleed? Have you ever explored ways of breaking that pattern that don’t depend on the other guys not pissing you off? > > Just to be clear (and so I don’t seem all armchair psychologisty here), what I’m suggesting is that there’s a chance your perception that you’re being victimized by these guys would look really different from a neutral observer’s viewpoint. And I only suggest that because you’ve said it’s a constant pattern in your life to “have” to deal physically with aggressors. This _ **may** _ mean you’re one of those ‘prone to violence’ guys I’m talking about. Actually, no. I tend to give people a lot of leeway. I am likely to say “he just had one beer too many” or “screw it, he’s just having a bad day”. Really. However there are those who don’t know how to act. My problem if you want to call it that, is I absolutely refuse to let anyone threaten me or put their hands on me. Once, they get a pass. the second time, they have a problem. I don’t have a “constant pattern” so don’t bother trying to build up that straw man. I could probably count all the fights on one hand, over my lifespan - that’s probably less than many other people. I just have certain well defined boundaries and I allow no one to cross them. I respond to threats directly and in a simple way. I don’t see myself as having been victimized, because I would not and did not allow it. That’s all there is to it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010.md?page=17)