# My children's school principal: Go to hell and burn. Slowly. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010 "2010-11-17T18:53:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![dukette71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@dukette71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dukette71)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/141 "2010-11-21T05:09:44Z")
> [@neuroman](#): > > I hate to be cynical here, but do you honestly think the police are going to give a flying fuck about one 9 year old hitting another (unless someone winds up in the hospital over it)? I don’t get it. Assault is assault. Schools are so notoriosly inept dealing with this, I think I would go the legal route first. At least a restraining order (see how the school handles that?) Maybe sue the parents. Can you do that? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/142 "2010-11-21T05:25:48Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I learned the best and only way to deal with a real bully is to go crazy on his ass, beat him as bad as you can, and convince him you might cripple him next time. Walking away from a bully doesn’t work. Instilling fear in him does work. If he is afraid of you, he leaves you alone. This is not only counterfactual, it’s dangerously irresponsible counsel. If your approach actually worked for you, I’m happy it did. But you were lucky in several ways. You were lucky you had the ability to beat the bully physically. Most victims of bullies don’t have the ability to turn intimidation around, or the opportunity to complete such an assault. And even if the victims has such unlikely ability and opportunity, most fights don’t actually result in a clear winner (but usually have two or more losers), nor do they often change the essential relationship between combatants. You were lucky you were interacting with a bully without friends or accomplices. Most so-called bullies aren’t lone actors. Bullying is almost always enabled, either as part of group behavior or by implicit/explicit pack support of the bully. Most of all, you were lucky the bully’s fear of you didn’t override his fear of other consequences (probably from school authorities) and therefore he didn’t exact revenge or punishment or otherwise dispose of you as a menace. Unless you’re Joe Badass (or have a reliable support group around you), you don’t want to scare a bully. You don’t want people prone to violence interested in you in general, but you really don’t want them thinking you’re a problem for them. Please note that I’m not suggesting physical response is never called for. I’m not suggesting potential or ongoing victims knuckle under to bullies or that they take no action. I’m merely saying that ‘deliver unto the bully a righteous smackdown,’ although an emotionally satisfying and neatly simplistic maxim, isn’t a particularly useful one in most actual encounters. Really, using existing authorities (either through direct appeal to them or by using their existence as a deterrent) should be the default, in school and later in life. The option to respond in kind will still be there, but every kid should be taught that there are other less risky methods of changing the situation. Like walking the fuck away from fights. That’s not comforting, but it’s a lot healthier in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/143 "2010-11-21T05:29:47Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > No, but I sure didn’t tell you that what remaining anger you have over how you were treated as a kid (give that if such treatment by my peers were to happen to me as an adult, would involve things such as restraining orders and lawsuits) was somehow inappropriate and you aren’t handling it well. Hey, maybe it’s not lingering anger driving those responses. I’m willing to believe **Bosda** if he claims to be just an asshole in general; it’s no skin off my nose. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/144 "2010-11-21T06:05:17Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > But feel free to call me sanctimonious in the way I expressed that. Already did. So far I’m not regretting my choice of words. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/145 "2010-11-21T06:11:02Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Most of all, you were lucky the bully’s fear of you didn’t override his fear of other consequences (probably from school authorities) and therefore he didn’t exact revenge or punishment or otherwise dispose of you as a menace. \*\*Unless you’re Joe Badass (or have a reliable support group around you), you don’t want to scare a bully. \*\* You don’t want people prone to violence interested in you in general, but you really don’t want them thinking you’re a problem for them. Bullshit. Like I said before, if I had a kid and he was being bullied I would hope that 99 times out of a hundred he would be able to brush it off or find some other sensible way of dealing with it. But if somebody starts beating on him, I would expect him to retaliate with all his might and with extreme prejudice. To hell with what the asshole school authorities think. Their “concerns” are something we can deal with later. When he’s in physical duress, I want him to defend himself and hopefully instill a good deal of fear into his oppressor. ---
**Author:** ![Snake\_Plissken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@Snake\_Plissken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snake_Plissken)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/146 "2010-11-21T11:45:37Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Bullshit. Like I said before, if I had a kid and he was being bullied I would hope that 99 times out of a hundred he would be able to brush it off or find some other sensible way of dealing with it. But if somebody starts beating on him, I would expect him to retaliate with all his might and with extreme prejudice. To hell with what the asshole school authorities think. Their “concerns” are something we can deal with later. When he’s in physical duress, I want him to defend himself and hopefully instill a good deal of fear into his oppressor. While this may not be the popular opinion, it worked for me. Even when I got my ass kicked, the kid lost all interest in screwing with me. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/147 "2010-11-21T13:14:45Z")
Fuck you, **xenophon41.** ---
**Author:** ![enigmatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@enigmatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigmatic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/148 "2010-11-21T13:57:44Z")
I was one of the “designated victims” at my school, My life at school was either spent in living hell or hiding in the library (which probably did more for my education than the lessons did) The things that made me a victim are obvious, I was a really annoying little shit, I had no self confidence and terrible social skills and some fool had taught me that intelligence was something to be proud of. I understand the things that made me stand out and the reasons for them. I can’t think of any advice that I could have given the old me that would have enabled me to change those things, I have enough trouble dealing with them today. With a few exceptions everything that happened to me at school was so minor as to be laughed off by anyone who I could tell, they just happened to me dozens, possibly hundreds of times a day. I didn’t see a corridor, I saw a row of legs waiting to trip me up. Most of the kids who bullied me only did it a handful of times, probably because they had had a shitty day too. There are a lot of kids in a comprehensive school. I can look back and see times when I could have fought back, I can also look back and see times when I could have got into a lot of trouble for doing so. The point is moot because I didn’t. I didn’t because I was scared, I was scared of the long and mostly apocryphal list of things that school lore told had happened to the kids that fought back. I had heard of the kids that had ended up in hospital, the kids who’s homes had been torched, the kids who had been raped, the kids who had unspeakable false accusations made to the police about them. Almost certainly only a few of these things had actually happened, but when they had, I did know some of the victims. And the thing about this kind of threat, the bullies don’t even have to make them. The things that were not so minor, I was shot at with an airgun, I was beaten by gangs of kids, I was mocked in front of a class by a teacher, I was stalked home, my home was (abortively) attacked, I was sexually assaulted (nothing that couldn’t be put down to “boys will be boys”, nothing that, between adults, wouldn’t get someone fired and probably arrested). Every single time I trusted someone I was betrayed, it might seem less dramatic than the other things, it sure as hell fucked my life up more. With the exception of that last one we wouldn’t put up with that shit between adults, adults behaving like that towards children and you’d see a lynch mob. But I suppose an adult couldn’t put up with it either, I certainly couldn’t now , Kids _are_ resilient. Although I do remember standing at the bus stop, watching the gang of kids waiting for me on the other side of the footbridge and thinking how much quicker it would be to just step out in front of the number 2. To be fair to the teachers, they never saw this. They saw a whiny pretentious little kid who was always complaining about minor things like other children tripping him in the hall. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/149 "2010-11-21T14:56:05Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > My wife and I are members of our local PTA council (and, BTW, if you want to make a change in your kids’ school, I’d recommend it: most parents don’t care enough to be on one, so simply showing up at most places will get you a seat on the council) and last night my wife went to an anti-bullying task force group. Basically, this is what’s going on. School administrators have to deal with about a million things, most of which affect every single kid in the school. So from a utilitarian standpoint alone, things which don’t effect every kid in the school are going to be subsidiary to subjects like budget, state testing, buses, school maintenance, staff salaries, lunches, etc. etc. > > I think the other thing, based on my own experiences as a bullied kid, is simply this: there is no blanket policy that’s going to stop kids from bullying other kids. The root causes of bullying are something that schools just aren’t equipped to handle–nor should they be. Schools really only have one tool to deal with bullies: expulsion. Everything else, the bully can get around. Yes, you can have an “anti-bullying atmosphere”, whatever that is, but schools simply cannot monitor every student 24/7, and even the dumbest bully is going to quickly figure out how to do stuff when nobody’s looking. I’ve heard parents say, “Well, you punish the bully, then it will stop.” One of the kids who bullied me got suspended for 10 days, and on day 11 came right back and acted exactly the same to me. I don’t think any punishment short of prison or expulsion would have stopped him. So either you expel every bully in the school, or you’re going to have bullying. > > Truthfully, I’d love to hear what these bullying solutions that “uncaring” administrators are not implementing. It seems to me that the bullier-bullied mentality is endemic to kids in general, and short of assigning someone to monitor every conversation, physical action, or minute with every student, I haven’t heard a good solution. And, believe me, as a parent and advisor to our school district, I _want_ to hear one. And expelling them is a BIG DEAL. The public school system has an obligation to educate all children - even the ones that are a waste of air. My son got in trouble on the bus - nothing big - won’t stay in his seat, is loud, and wrote Fuck You in the frost on the window (he is 12 - this is typical 12 year old boy stuff) and the assistant principal called me. He told my son that he could “get kicked off the bus.” He told me “its REALLY hard to kick a kid off a bus, even if they do far worse things than your kid. Because we have a mandate to educate them.” On fighting back, my son got into trouble last year. My daughter is easily picked on, and my son is not. Some kid was stealing her hat - and then removing the tassels from it. My son did something I am very proud of him for - he moved and sat right next to the perp and said “give my sister back her hat” - the video shows that at this point he flicked the kid’s head (which the kid had done to my daughter several times). But that’s hitting someone. So everyone got into trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/150 "2010-11-21T15:42:31Z")
I was a target of a bully in elementary school that would physically assault me, push me down, push me into lockers, knock my books out of my hands continously. My step-father being an Army veteran once he found out taught me a simple defensive move that would literally shut him up while causing him a great deal of pain. I did it finally one day. Once the bully saw that I wasn’t an easy target anymore he moved on. When it comes to child bullies It’s important to teach your kids violence is bad but it’s also important to let your kids know there is nothing wrong with physically defending themselves from someone who is trying to harm them. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/151 "2010-11-21T15:57:07Z")
Fighting back is the only tactic that works. Period. Just to add another story to the pile, I too was the smart, artsy, physically stunted kid that took all the abuse. My only saving grace for friends was that I had a wickedly fast smart-ass mouth and used it to good advantage. Since I was funny, I had some friends. The problem though, is that friends aren’t always there, and I was physically bullied for nearly 5 straight years until… _I fought back._ It took a few fights, and I lost as many as I won; but the bullying stopped. I was no longer worth targeting because I was too much damn trouble to take on. I wasn’t big or strong, but I would climb you like a rabid spider monkey and choke you until you gave up and I felt safe. Yeah I got in trouble, yes, mum was pissed, but at that age, force is all that works. Talking is for adults, not children. The result of that bullying was permanent damage to my fight or flight responses. I now have a mild stress disorder that disqualified me from military service. I have no middle gears any longer. While I’ve learned to cope well, and let nearly everything roll off my back, it isn’t because I want to. It is because I can’t allow myself to get angry. If I do, there is a serious chance that I’ll hurt someone. I’m not frail and weak anymore, but my lizard brain doesn’t know that. In my deepest mind I’m still that runt that has to go apeshit to defend himself from being harmed. So yeah. It’s time to fight back, and sooner rather than later. You tell your kid that while fighting is wrong, it is worse to not defend yourself. If he/she feels the need to fight, then you will back them up unconditionally. You won’t get help from the school, you won’t get the support of the other parents. you will take heat for it, and so will your kid but curb it early, or it can do lasting damage. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/152 "2010-11-21T16:11:49Z")
Missed the edit. Martial arts are a wonderful option to add both buckets of self confidence, and pounds of muscle to your kid. BEWARE. Unless your child is sporty, and they probably are not if they are being bullied, then you need to find a school that teaches APPLIED THEORY. Places with loads of trophies, and competition ribbons are not going to help. Applied disciplines teach what works in real life scenarios, and the sparring is designed to teach you how to be confident of yourself in a physical confrontation. Look into: Jui-Jitsu, MMA, Boxing, Ninjitsu, Krav-Maga, Kickboxing, Judo, wrestling. Stay away from: Tae-kwan-do, Kung-fu (It is really hard to find a good applied Kung-fu school). Karate (Be very careful here. Karate Is the most widely spread and misrepresented of the disciplines A good school is great, but most are competition oriented.) ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/153 "2010-11-21T16:33:47Z")
I guess I’m just a big, fat bully then, because I don’t see what’s so horribly wrong with what some folks who are being piled upon have said. I didn’t read anything **filmore** said as blaming the victim. Rather, I saw him pointing out the unfortunate truth that there are some shared behavior patterns and mind frames of perpetual victims worth examining. Suggesting that these chronic victims learn to better defend themselves (and this does not necessarily mean decking someone in the face) and/or cope does not mean we’re absolving the bullies of blame. Of course the bully is in the wrong, but hitting them with a rolled-up newspaper then saying to the victim, “There. We made the bad guy go away” isn’t an effective tactic in the real world. > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I get it: a lot of you were bullied in school and a lot of you felt like the system failed you. You felt like no one understood you and no one was there for you. But I promise: most teachers are not sociopaths. Correct. It’s frankly insulting to most educators to suggest that they’re soulless ghouls who don’t care about whether or not one of their students is being abused. Yes, because they’re all in it for the money and fame, apparently. > [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](#): > > I’m sure it’s possible, but I’ve never met any child who spoke this way. > > Heck, I don’t know of many teenagers who are able to speak this way in a public setting under teasing and public attention. > > You’re wanting the victim, a child, to react to situations like an adult. Yet the bully…? Of course not, which is why he said he doesn’t expect a child to have that kind of self-awareness, but _does_ expect an adult to help teach the child. > [@FE3O4ENAIL](#): > > Whats wrong with venting on a BB? > So some venom comes out, maybe it is a good release. If you still feel “venom” about bullying that happened to you in school, it was either more severe than what I am imagining, or you need to get the fuck over it. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/154 "2010-11-21T16:49:31Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > If you still feel “venom” about bullying that happened to you in school, it was either more severe than what I am imagining, or you need to get the fuck over it. Not speaking for them, but it can have long lasting effects on a person’s development. It certainly has on mine. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/155 "2010-11-21T16:58:20Z")
Scars are scars. It’s certainly not inconceivable to me that someone can have gotten over problems in their past, yet continue to remember them as ugly and painful times in their lives. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/156 "2010-11-21T17:01:08Z")
What were they doing to you? Feel free to say, “None of your goddamn business.” ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/157 "2010-11-21T17:14:52Z")
If past problems continue to affect your behavior, they’re not really “past” problems. This is another reason to teach coping skills that don’t begin with “fight back physically.” As others have said, that isn’t “blaming the victims” any more than telling a coastal resident to board up his house and evacuate before a hurricane is blaming him for the storm. Teaching a kid how to be assertive verbally and nonviolently can be a lifetime confidence building process. You can stand up to bullying without physical combat. This is especially important when the bullying itself is nonphysical, as happened to **enigmatic** , **whiterabbit** and others who’ve commented. I wish I’d had those coping skills growing up. Instead, I put up walls it took me years to even recognize, much less dismantle. And I still have a distant and ‘sanctimonious’ communication style. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/158 "2010-11-21T17:39:59Z")
Violence is never the solution. If it was, the world would be a peaceful place by now. Its not his kid bullying my kid, its one of our kid bullying another one of our kid. Understanding and empathy is the only way out but maybe that’s too boring. Not every negative experience in life is a problem to be solved. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/159 "2010-11-21T18:00:34Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > If past problems continue to affect your behavior, they’re not really “past” problems. This is another reason to teach coping skills that don’t begin with “fight back physically.” As others have said, that isn’t “blaming the victims” any more than telling a coastal resident to board up his house and evacuate before a hurricane is blaming him for the storm. > > Teaching a kid how to be assertive verbally and nonviolently can be a lifetime confidence building process. You can stand up to bullying without physical combat. This is especially important when the bullying itself is nonphysical, as happened to **enigmatic** , **whiterabbit** and others who’ve commented. I wish I’d had those coping skills growing up. Instead, I put up walls it took me years to even recognize, much less dismantle. And I still have a distant and ‘sanctimonious’ communication style. I’m glad you weren’t my step-parent that I went to when I was getting bullied in elementary school. I would of gotten my ass kicked all through elementary and probably high school. Sometimes brutes aren’t sophisticated enough to respond to reason and verbal assertiveness. Honestly sometimes it doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010/160 "2010-11-21T18:05:41Z")
God I can’t get over the number of people here that would tell their kids in the face of someone assaulting them to not fight back. Your basically telling them to take the beating and if they raised a hand in self defense they’d be just as bad as the bully. Do you realize what your doing to your kids and what kind of nightmare your asking them to live through ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-childrens-school-principal-go-to-hell-and-burn-slowly/561010.md?page=9)