My children's school principal: Go to hell and burn. Slowly.

The BBQ Pit
121

The doctrine of “in loco parentis” makes it pretty clear that educators should have the responsibility for disciplining kids. It’s true that a lot of bullies have “problems at home.” But there’s also a significant number that are privileged and pampered snowflakes at home, and then turn into bullies at school. In which case there NEEDS to be a method for educators to mitigate the pain the snowflakes cause to others.

In other words, I would not say that it’s unfair to involve educators in policing childrens’ behavior. Kids are at school for 7-8 hours 5 days a week. If the parents aren’t there, SOMEONE needs to take charge.

122

It isn’t?

Does this mean I can stop giving you my lunch money?

123

And what the hell do you know about which course of action the OP took? I’m terribly sorry I didn’t mention every fucking step we climbed on the fucking chain of fucking command. Teacher 1, teacher 2, parents, teacher, inspector, principal. In case you didn’t know, the principal is responsible for school policies, carries final responsibility for those worthless manifests and signs those meaningless letters and questionnaires

Fuck you, you condescending know-it-all

124

[quote=“Shot_From_Guns, post:120, topic:561010”]

My point is that you’re claiming that (a) violence inevitably escalates to ridiculous levels, {/QUOTE

No I didn’t. I presented a scenario of what COULD happen and presented you with a cite of it actually happening. It’s not common, but it did show (at least in my mind) that it can escalate to ridiculous levels.

,

Again, never said that. My point was that responding to violence with violence can, and has, made situations worse. Walking away to go and speak with someone in a position to help is, to me, a more effective solution.

I have repeatedly stated that following the chain of command, going to the teacher who sees the child more in a day than an admin could see in a year, is what I would advise and what I suggested that the OP and others might want to do.

Finally, I never once said they were universal truths. And if it came off that way, as a number of your posts did, then I do apologize.

125

Listen man, I was going off your OP and read it as you went straight to the principal. If you did go through the normal fucking channels than I’m fucking sorry for my incorrect assumption. I should have asked. You could have also offered up those statements as well.

If that makes me a know it all to assume that your OP is what the case is, then my fucking bad. But don’t get all fucking butt hurt because I made a fucking mistake on the accuracy of what you posted.

Bullying is a major problem and it blows to have to deal with it. My 5 year old son has had those issues in kindergarten and I can only imagine how much worse it is to find out years after the fact. I’m trying to offer suggestions to you, which you apparently didn’t need, and maybe others who have a similar issue.

But my condescending know it all self (which I didn’t mean to come across as) is sincerely sorry for your child’s situation.

126

I hang out with teachers all the time- the vast majority of my friends are teachers. I assure you that the vast, vast majority of the teachers (ie: almost ALL) I know are like me. The exception is the one who fucked a kid and got sent to jail- he’s not like us. The other exception is the chick trying to become an administrator at all costs. But those are two people. Two people out of countless folks on countless campuses in several cities.

I don’t deny that you very genuinely FELT like no one was listening to you or there for you, but I promise: it’s tremendously unlikely that was reality outside of your head.

127

Another high school teacher here. I cannot stress enough how hard it is to see bullying, or how good kids can be at hiding it. A kid with a sharp pencil can flat out torture the kid sitting in front of him, and unless someone tells me, I’m never going to know. What makes it worse is that the bullied kid often thinks everyone around them knows what is going on–it’s so obvious to them, how could anyone else miss it?–and so thinks it is being willfully ignored, increasing their sense of powerlessness. We had a case of full-blown sexual harassment, bordering on sexual assault, going on and none of the teacher knew and the student witnesses all assumed they did and basically it went on much longer than it ever should have. I know the teachers involved and they are good, caring people–but you can’t see everything at once and teach. This means that even teachers that are friendly and open with kids often stay in the dark because no one bothers to tell them.

There’s also the fact that kids jocularly give each other crap all the time. It’s how boys, especially, express affection. My academic decathlon team is very tight–11 of the sweetest kids I’ve ever taught–but they love teasing each other. Banning that across the board would be as grave a loss as banning all hugging to prevent any sort of sexual harassment.

Kids also aren’t all good or all bad, and it’s hard to tell which kid is playing which role in a particular relationship. I’ve been wrong about kids often enough to not make assumptions, and a lot of times in those “he said, she said” situations it’s not that I “don’t have proof”, it’s that I honestly don’t know what happened.

Now, I do all I can to prevent and stop bullying, and to create a space where kids are safe and comfortable. But it’s not a simple problem to even identify, let alone fix.

128

Bullying works in non-traditional ways as well… The usual story we read is some kid being picked on etc by larger nastier children…
Well in little cj’s position… he gets bullied in another interesting manner. Perhaps bullying isn’t the correct lingo… but he’s in 8th grade… 6’2 about 170… Smaller classmates bait him because as I’ve pointed out to him… u can’t knock one of your classmates who’s a foot smaller and 60lbs lighter across the head and expect anyone to hear your version of the story. Many parents… because their kid is smaller sized maybe… just simple presume that their child has to be on one end of things… i can easily tell you that that’s not always the case. My little big guy has had to walk away from comments about his hair (dreads) and playing basketball that have mean spirited and racial in nature. Shall i tell him the next time to wop one of his classmates across the grill? No… he’s force to use restraint… and remember that he will forever have to deal with assumptions to who he is… what he represents and what kind of person he is…

So our traditional ideas of bullying could use being stood up on its head…

129

Sounds like a cool kid. I’ve known some gentle giants that had as many fans as they did irritants.

You have to like a kid that uses reason over physical dominance. Especially when they could easily put the fear of God in most kids.

130

I teach elementary, and I will echo what some other teachers said above - it can be incredibly hard to catch bullying, especially when the bullies are smart enough to know what they’re doing. It doesn’t really normally happen in blatant view in the classroom. Actually, the inappropriate teasing DOES happen in the classroom, but usually it’s just 10 year olds who are still learning the difference between “kidding” and “hurting feelings”. And yes, that gets nipped in the bud immediately.

So when does true, malicious, bullying happen? Usually in places where the teachers can’t see or hear every single thing going on in the midst of 25 students. It happens quietly in line - whispered threats as students wait for the next class. It happens in the boy’s bathroom, where I can’t exactly go supervise. It happens in the cafeteria, where a hundred kids have 2 monitors. And it does happen in the classroom, some, but very quietly. At some point, I have to turn my back to write on the board. If a kid jabs another kid or mouths a threat to him/her, I’m just not going to catch it. I cannot emphasize enough that good bullies are smart enough to keep it under the radar.

This year, I have a known troublemaker that we were keeping a close eye on. And he STILL was bullying. Again - whispering threats in line, bullying in the bathroom, etc. And you know what? It went on for WEEKS because nobody said anything - not the victim, not the witnesses. It was very frustrating for me and my fellow teachers because we just. did. not. catch. him. doing. it. And yes - as soon as we knew, we acted and now he is walked to each class, sits at a desk instead of a table with others, etc. But I’m still sick that it happened under my watch, so to speak.

And, even when victims do report it, it’s still a very delicate situation because I don’t want the victim being bullied because he or she “snitched”. So you have to find a way to address the bullying, while protecting the person who told the teacher (victim or witness). And bullies will deny, deny, deny - and since you didn’t actually see it happen, they usually know exactly who told.

It IS a problem, but there is no perfect solution. Please believe that most teachers want their students to feel safe in school, and are constantly saddened when we find out things that are happening that we just weren’t in a position to see directly.

131

**mckall ** – you are a goddam pollyanna idiot.

My school days were Hell on Earth.
I got your useless line of fucked up crap a million times. It just egged the bullies on.

You useless godddamn piece of shit slime.

Keep your stupid trap shut.

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+1

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Bosda, it’s bad if you were bullied as a child. That shouldn’t have happened. It’s bad if the bullying wasn’t appropriately handled by adults who were charged with do so. But what’s even worse, since you appear to have survived your childhood, is that you’re not handling it appropriately now. I hope you can find a way to grow past it.

134

Whats wrong with venting on a BB?
So some venom comes out, maybe it is a good release.

135

Sanctimony: xenophon has it.

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Bite me, xenophon41. If you weren’t there, you don’t know, and shut the fuck up. As much as I love my mom, I still can’t convince her how bad it was, and I went into sixth grade in 1987. Given that, I didn’t have a fucking prayer at the time.

Nobody did a damn thing – and I wasn’t physically bullied. That’d have been easier to deal with than the emotional torture. Moving halfway across the country between my sophomore and junior years? Now, that helped. Enormously. Indescribably. Because the assholes who’d been tormenting me for years were out of my life. Fuck them with a thousand red-hot razor blades. Repeatedly.

137

That’s what I did, I got pissed off and started hitting back - hard. Guess what happened. I got in “trouble” for it. Well fuck that, every time I got in trouble for defending myself, I’d dish a bit more out later. Eventually people figured out I was a good one to leave alone. Bullies are good at being sneaky and not getting caught, so they needed to learn I didn’t give a damn about being in “trouble”.

138

FE3O4ENAIL: The inappropriate thing is that Bosda is reacting with venom and belligerence instead of with argument. Yeah, it’s the Pit, where people “vent.” Doesn’t make venting obligatory, and it doesn’t make for a convincing argument. In the only critical sentence that isn’t an ad hominem insult, Bosda calls mckall a “pollyanna,” so I assume he means the approach mckall advises is unrealistic in the real world. But (s)he’s so intent on spitting in mckall’s virtual face (s)he doesn’t offer anything to support that assertion. Which is particularly unfortunate since other anecdotal experience supports the idea that in many circumstances mckall’s approach would be more productive in resolving the immediate problem.

Bosstone: It was an observation. That was a vicious, senselessly dismissive and essentially arrogant post [that I was responding to]. On the other hand, having read Bosda Di’ Chi of Tricor’s posts for about a decade on the SDMB, I know the same username to post calmly, rationally and respectfully on other subjects in response to propositions with which (s)he disagrees. I felt I ought to say honestly I feel this poster isn’t handling this particular subject very well. But feel free to call me sanctimonious in the way I expressed that.

whiterabbit: And you don’t know my childhood experiences, so I guess that makes us equal in ignorance. On the other hand, I haven’t tried to invalidate your right to have an opinion about the subject, and I haven’t told anyone to shut the fuck up.

139

Uh yeah. Right. Walking away gets you one thing. It gets you marked as a weakling who won’t fight back. THAT is how it escalates, because you didn’t stand and stop it cold. I learned the best and only way to deal with a real bully is to go crazy on his ass, beat him as bad as you can, and convince him you might cripple him next time. Walking away from a bully doesn’t work. Instilling fear in him does work. If he is afraid of you, he leaves you alone.

140

No, but I sure didn’t tell you that what remaining anger you have over how you were treated as a kid (give that if such treatment by my peers were to happen to me as an adult, would involve things such as restraining orders and lawsuits) was somehow inappropriate and you aren’t handling it well.

Yes, I said restraining orders and lawsuits. And I mean it. They’d be justified, too.

I can’t go back in time but I promise you that I refuse to accept blame for how I was treated. Because I don’t deserve it now, and did even less as a child. My office is populated by smartasses and we all give each other shit about more or less everything. The difference between now and then? They don’t mean it. It’s funny. Those jerks in school meant it. I’ve come a long way since then but I won’t deny that I am still, on some levels, quite angry when I think about it, which thank God isn’t very often these days. Reading this thread set me off a bit, I admit.