# My Christianity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076 "2013-12-24T13:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/261 "2014-01-03T16:27:51Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > Obviously this crusade is not going to stop. Fine, carry on. I am done. :smack: I was hoping you would at least say where Jesus said all sins were the same, but I guess you made it up. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/262 "2014-01-03T17:34:07Z")
and I guess you are being at your pleasant best, too. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/263 "2014-01-03T17:38:50Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > and I guess you are being at your pleasant best, too. If you made it up, just say so. I’ve been told forthrightness is a Christian virtue, but I must admit I have not seen much of it. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/264 "2014-01-03T17:39:03Z")
Tweet! Kable, you can’t accuse another poster of lying in Great Debates. “Making Things Up” qualifies either as an insult or an accusation of lying. I have to give you a warning for that one. There are certainly better ways in which you could have expressed yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/265 "2014-01-03T17:40:15Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > and I guess you are being at your pleasant best, too. Could you please tell us where Jesus said all sins were the same? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/266 "2014-01-03T17:46:28Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Tweet! > > Kable, you can’t accuse another poster of lying in Great Debates. “Making Things Up” qualifies either as an insult or an accusation of lying. Are you kidding me? So which is it? > [@](#): > > I have to give you a warning for that one. There are certainly better ways in which you could have expressed yourself. OK, so it’s cool to just make things up and attribute them to others, but it’s not OK to notice. How would you have expressed it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/267 "2014-01-03T17:56:37Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Are you kidding me? So which is it? > OK, so it’s cool to just make things up and attribute them to others, but it’s not OK to notice. How would you have expressed it? 1. The poster could be right, but doesn’t want to respond to your question. 2. The poster is wrong, but doesn’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/268 "2014-01-03T18:25:38Z")
1. The poster has grown bored, has expressed all he wishes to do and is no longer interested in dealing with those who have no respect or consideration of others. I simply respectfully withdraw and wish to stop. Is it too much to allow that and stop baiting with insults? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/269 "2014-01-03T18:32:47Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > 1. The poster has grown bored, has expressed all he wishes to do and is no longer interested in dealing with those who have no respect or consideration of others. I simply respectfully withdraw and wish to stop. Is it too much to allow that and stop baiting with insults? I think that is a variation of #1…but I do notice that you gave the excuse for not answering the question that he wasn’t at his “pleasant best”…but you still didn’t answer the question when _I_ asked politely. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/270 "2014-01-03T18:49:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think that is a variation of #1…but I do notice that you gave the excuse for not answering the question that he wasn’t at his “pleasant best”…but you still didn’t answer the question when _I_ asked politely. I’m fairly familiar with the teachings of Jesus and I don’t think it’s a version of #1. In fact Jesus went on to say blaspheming the Holy Spirit so bad it isn’t forgivable. Apparently worse than murder and rape, which makes no sense, but that’s Christianity. And if the OP asks me for a cite, I’ll give it too him. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/271 "2014-01-03T18:54:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. The poster could be right, but doesn’t want to respond to your question. > 2. The poster is wrong, but doesn’t know it. The poster could be right, but doesn’t wish to scan through four gospels for a cite. The poster might also think that this is a point without enough value to care. I can’t say for sure that I am right or not and I am too lazy to care. In the interest of peace and quiet, I concede that I am completely wrong and at the same time, I don’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/272 "2014-01-03T19:44:13Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > The poster could be right, but doesn’t wish to scan through four gospels for a cite. The poster might also think that this is a point without enough value to care. I can’t say for sure that I am right or not and I am too lazy to care. In the interest of peace and quiet, I concede that I am completely wrong and at the same time, I don’t know it. And at the same time it was also a minor part to the point you were trying to make. Seems like the definition of not seeing the forest for the trees. People have definitely extrapolated the “all sin is the same” from Jesus’s Sermon on the Mount, but others have said some sins are worse (mortal vs. venial sins, etc). Regardless, I don’t think it particularly mattered to your main point, which, if I understand correctly, was along the lines of: we all have our crap, so who am I to issue judgement? Though correct me if I’ve gotten you wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/273 "2014-01-03T19:51:52Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > The poster could be right, but doesn’t wish to scan through four gospels for a cite. The poster might also think that this is a point without enough value to care. If it exists google should find you the verse in a matter of seconds. > [@](#): > > In the interest of peace and quiet, I concede that I am completely wrong and at the same time, I don’t know it. I’d still recommend you look it up for the future. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/274 "2014-01-03T20:49:14Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > The poster could be right, but doesn’t wish to scan through four gospels for a cite. The poster might also think that this is a point without enough value to care. I can’t say for sure that I am right or not and I am too lazy to care. In the interest of peace and quiet, I concede that I am completely wrong and at the same time, I don’t know it. The poster has opinions, but when the going gets tough, he gets going. The poster is sure of his convictions, but can’t provide anything to back them up. The poster likes to refer to himself in the third person. The poster… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/275 "2014-01-03T21:04:41Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > The poster has opinions, but when the going gets tough, he gets going. The poster is sure of his convictions, but can’t provide anything to back them up. The poster likes to refer to himself in the third person. The poster… OP/handle combination - tells the whole story. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/276 "2014-01-03T21:30:50Z")
Posts, not posters. Next one earns a warning. Ditto all following. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/277 "2014-01-03T22:36:17Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I just want back in at a higher level on the food chain … kinda weird, but there you have it. Nothing really wrong with it. It’s like people who feel comforted by knowing they have a nice gravesite, or a spot in a mausoleum wall, etc. To me, materialist that I am, I don’t care what happens to my physical remains…but even so, worms, ick. > [@](#): > > _Pilgrim’s Progress_ by John Bunyan … a bit of a chore to read, but rewarding in it’s understanding of the human condition. Ooh, I have read that’n! Obviously, I didn’t entirely agree with the moral lessons he sought to present, but it was a fun bit of a read, and I admired the form of the apologetics. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > is it possible to understand Christianity and still think it is wrong? I’d say yes. Others might say no. I was just in conversation last night with a pastor-in-training who insists there are no contradictions in the Bible. He said that all the apparent contradictions have to do with misinterpretations in translation, etc. I asked him if he accepted the idea of Genesis originating in two separate documents which were stitched together later. No: he has no use for the “Documentary Hypothesis.” He rejects it entirely, and holds with the “Mosaic” origin. At that point, further communication became essentially impossible. His interpretation of reality differs too much from my own. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Though, Lewis’s version of Hell wasn’t hellfire. It was just hanging out in grey space, getting annoyed at each other and moving farther and father away. The ‘obstacles’ to moving up appear to be people unwilling to give up things in order to move forward - so I do think there is a voluntarily not going aspect to it. Tricky… Take Dante’s Hell: in the ice-pits of center-most hell, there are people, frozen up to the neck, who are still so mad at each other, thry’re gnawing each others’ scalps off in unceasing hatred. They are “unwilling” to give up their hatred and move forward. But is it a matter of will? In their situation, are they able to give up their hatred? Is it part of the punishment, part of the nature of hell? Or is it conceivable that they could work out a gradual reduction of hostility. (“Say, this is getting us nowhere. How about we stop biting each other a while and see if we can remember some of the good things we used to enjoy in life?”) If that’s even possible, then there can still be learning, progress, and betterment in hell. If it isn’t possible, then it’s not valid to speak of their being “unwilling.” They aren’t unwilling; their very ability to exercise or express their “will” has been curtailed. > [@](#): > > Unless you are discussing actually getting on the magic bus to heaven in the first place and not what happens to folk after they get off the bus. That was the bit I was thinking of. They get off the bus, walk toward the shining palace…and get sidetracked by mazy woods and twisty paths. They are trying to move in the right direction, but obstacles external to their own will have been interposed. Again, it seems to me to be bad theology to say “They aren’t willing” to strive in the right direction. They’re clearly willing; they’re being prevented by some other force of will. > [@](#): > > I quite enjoyed it, but YMMV (and maybe I was more inclined to do so as a believer and one who doesn’t believe in the idea of hellfire and damnation). I may very well be projecting too much of my own beliefs and moral senses onto the book than is valid, correct, or justified, but it really did seem to me that Lewis was arguing against himself in the construction of the metaphor. To me, it read, “Look at these bad people, who are depraved from seeking the path to righteousness,” while God was planting impenetrable rows of trees right across that path. If God is gonna stack the deck…why bother with the pretense of shuffling, dealing, and playing out the hand? Do we have free will…or don’t we? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/278 "2014-01-04T01:53:56Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > No, He didn’t. He referred to throwing people to “gehenna” which was a waste zone that was burned for space quite often. There are multiple interpretations of this. The newest one is the “hell fire” that came from around 500-700 CE and developed into a major cultural icon of Catholicism and it’s subsequent branches. The word “gehenna” was frequently translated to mean “Hell” but it’s been up for debate for a lot longer than we’ve been around. I have no idea of the source of the idea that “hellfire” originated in the period 500 to 700, but it is not historically accurate. Christian views of hell, (including, but hardly limited to, the use of the word _gehenna_), originated with the pre-Christian Jewish writings such as the books First Enoch, First Esdras, The Assumption of Moses, and others. It was hardly an idea that sprang up among Christians in the sixth century. Augustine of Hippo, writing at the turn of the fourth and fifth centuries makes several references to hell as a place of fiery punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/279 "2014-01-04T02:45:56Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I have no idea of the source of the idea that “hellfire” originated in the period 500 to 700, but it is not historically accurate. Christian views of hell, (including, but hardly limited to, the use of the word _gehenna_), originated with the pre-Christian Jewish writings such as the books First Enoch, First Esdras, The Assumption of Moses, and others. It was hardly an idea that sprang up among Christians in the sixth century. Augustine of Hippo, writing at the turn of the fourth and fifth centuries makes several references to hell as a place of fiery punishment. You are right that the idea of “hell fire” in all conceptions is a fairly old tradition, not only among the Jews but among the other religious institutions of the time. I should have been more clear: “Hell fire” and eternal suffering as a part of Christianity wasn’t connected to the catholic orthodoxy until that time frame. Some certainly believed it,especially those that came from the Jewish sects or other religions that had their own “hell fire” views. There was a lot of differing Jewish, Jewish Messiah Believers, and Christian segments between 0 and 500. See the differing views of the Eastern Orthodoxy’s damnation versus Catholicism’s as an example. It’s also why “Hades” which is a different sort of underworld than “Hell” was also translated to “Hell” from the Greek-sourced books of the Bible. It’s the entire afterlife in Greek mythos, from the fields of Elysium, which is eternal bliss and happiness, to Tantalus, which is closer to the hell fire interpretation of damnation. There have been suggestions that “hades” should be translated to English as “afterlife” and not “hell”. In some interpretations, based on the metaphorical use of gehenna elsewhere, Jesus spoke of judgement when speaking of gehenna. These posit that he was talking of a fire of rebirth, such that if you were a non believer your soul would be burned in some holy oven and you’d emerge as yourself, but holy and worshiping God. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/280 "2014-01-04T03:12:32Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > In some interpretations, based on the metaphorical use of gehenna elsewhere, Jesus spoke of judgement when speaking of gehenna. These posit that he was talking of a fire of rebirth, such that if you were a non believer your soul would be burned in some holy oven and you’d emerge as yourself, but holy and worshiping God. Ah, the “God will brainwash you into worshiping him” view of the afterlife. A repulsive idea; even creepier is the fact that so many Christians seem to think that’s an argument in their god’s favor, instead of a condemnation of him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076.md?page=15)