# My Christianity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076 "2013-12-24T13:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/61 "2013-12-31T21:41:36Z")
Coffee is good. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/62 "2013-12-31T22:05:30Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > See but you are cherry picking. The Bible also says to kill homosexuals, right? In Leviticus, yes. But if Christians followed Leviticus, they’d keep kosher. And they wouldn’t wear mixed fabrics for some reason. Leviticus can be an odd read. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/63 "2013-12-31T22:38:39Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Why are Christians like the OP constantly thinking they are so terribly interesting they must inform the world of their dull, ordinary, commonplace, pedestrian beliefs? > > It’s a mystery. Why do they imagine we care at all? You opened the thread didn’t you ? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/64 "2013-12-31T22:38:53Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > In Leviticus, yes. But if Christians followed Leviticus, they’d keep kosher. And they wouldn’t wear mixed fabrics for some reason. Right, if they consistently followed the Bible they would do all those things. Blaster Master isn’t the only cherry picker. > [@](#): > > Leviticus can be an odd read. Right, like most books in the Bible. Christians still think it’s the word of the Lord or divinely inspired though, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/65 "2013-12-31T23:40:19Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > In Leviticus, yes. But if Christians followed Leviticus, they’d keep kosher. And they wouldn’t wear mixed fabrics for some reason. Leviticus can be an odd read. Mixed fabrics, especially, is a tricky issue, because God said it was an abomination. It isn’t just a rule like circumcision, to identify the people; it’s an abomination to mix fabrics. I can see giving up circumcision; “We’re now a different people.” But mixed fabrics didn’t suddenly stop being an abomination, did it? ---
**Author:** ![SunnyTGolem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@SunnyTGolem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunnyTGolem)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/66 "2014-01-01T05:54:51Z")
It’s amazing how truly shamanic the religion of the Judeans indeed was. Jesus was good like the other prophets which followed – summing up and clarifying important points in the religion. For example, Ezekiel explained how a son who is righteous will be be judged for his own actions, not be held accountable for the actions of his father (Ezekiel 18). The Trinity is important in the Christian understanding of the agency of God. So for practical purposes, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all called God. 3 persons mystery is something you can contemplate, but you also can focus on other things in the religion; we’re free obviously. But Christians also must acknowledge the section in the epistle to the Romans about the grafting of wild olive branches into a cultivated one. God’s ultimately the only one who can say “I shall be as I shall be” with authority. Only God can live up to his hallowed name. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/67 "2014-01-01T06:38:21Z")
An unusually enlightened Christian is starting to sound like what an average person in the modern world feels. And yet they feel the need to share their achievement with us. ---
**Author:** ![Cognitive\_Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cognitive\_Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cognitive_Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/68 "2014-01-01T11:07:21Z")
Even an apparently liberal xtian can’t share his beliefs without talking about homosexuality. It just seems to me that they are a bit obsessed. Having said that, he would no doubt have been asked about it so… Happy New Year to one and all 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/69 "2014-01-02T13:34:20Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I’m not sure I understand the distinction you’re drawing between “doing” and “thinking.” Certainly, Christian teaching suggests something more than merely not running afoul of a certain set of behavioral laws (although the lust = adultery; hate = murder stuff suggests that what you think, even if you can’t control it, can constitute a serious sin). But I also don’t understand how that answers my question. Whether or not Pope Francis sees sin in a particular way, he certainly doesn’t see it in a way that requires the Christian community to advocate for same-sex marriage. > > I definitely don’t understand what you’re saying. Can a person who, himself, sins be aware of the sins of others? Yes, clearly. The bible makes clear that we’re all sinners. But we lack the capacity to judge others. Fine, that makes sense too. The story about the adulteress is a good example. It’s not that she didn’t sin, and it’s not even that she didn’t deserve to be stoned, it’s that the crowd (sinners themselves) lacked the capacity to judge her. They need to go and reflect on their sins before judging others, and she needs to go and _sin no more_. > > Maybe I expressed my question incorrectly, since I’m so confused by the answers. Assume I’m a believing Christian and that homosexual behavior is a sin. I understand that, as a sinner myself in some way (in reality, in many ways), I lack the capacity to judge someone else’s sin. All that is well and good. What I don’t understand is how that requires the hypothetical me to advocate in favor of the sinful conduct. There’s a huge chasm between not stoning the adulteress myself and lobbying to decriminalize adultery. Isn’t there? It seems Jesus made an exception to the law.and did so hen he said David ate the temple bread because he was hungry, and asked if anyone had a animal or something fall in a pit, if it was wrong to take it out on the Sabbath. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/70 "2014-01-02T13:57:39Z")
Sorry all. I had an excellent and extended time with the family as I hope all here have. As for persecution, I wouldn’t call expecting a promised bashing to be a persecution complex. One of the respondents stated that this thread should be moved to GD to allow for mean, but entertaining responses. Merely stating that those mean, but entertaining responses would need to wait is a bit of a stretch for a persecution complex. As for whether the feelings of a gay man are the same as mine, how could I possibly know? I constantly wonder how others view the same thing as I do and yet I am often finding that mixing my feelings with those of others is not the same. For all I know, the relationships experienced by gays is completely different. This is one of the things that while I can try to understand the feelings of others, it isn’t like I can really fully understand. The comparison between the lost of a daughter or a son is not relevant. The comparison to me is that of understanding the loss of a child by someone who has not lost a child. While I can try to understand, how does one truly comprehend the depth of such a loss? My OP’s basic premise was not to preach nor to witness, but more to complain to OTHER Christians. I don’t like the depth to which modern American Christianity has delved into matters political. Lastly, when someone tells me that the Bible is just a book written by men, I hear the Charlie Brown adult speak. Fine, if that is how you feel, be free to do so. At the same time, if I remotely believed that, Christianity would be pointless and I would be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/71 "2014-01-02T14:03:03Z")
As for focusing on homosexuality, I didn’t. But good grief has Christianity in general. My point has nothing to do with homosexuality, but rather that it is about time for the Christians to let it go. Perhaps a thread like this is wasted here where there are typically some well thought out and reasoned responses. It is the Fred Phelps of the world that I wish my post could reach out to (as unlikely as that would be to do anything). At the same time, I don’t see a Fred Phelps as a Christian at all, but rather a hateful, mean and possibly unhinged man. Like all religions, if you have an axe to grind against some group, you can easily cherry pick something to use from the Bible or the Koran to justify ill behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/72 "2014-01-02T14:32:44Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > Lastly, when someone tells me that the Bible is just a book written by men, I hear the Charlie Brown adult speak. Fine, if that is how you feel, be free to do so. At the same time, if I remotely believed that, Christianity would be pointless and I would be done with it. You mentioned that you don’t think you need to follow the teachings of Paul because they were written for his world, which is different from ours right? Does that mean you think Paul’s words are still God’s words but that the morality in the Bible is relative to the times? Also I asked you about Jesus because you said you followed his words, so does that mean Jesus’ teachings are not relative to the times but are absolute and enduring? ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/73 "2014-01-02T14:59:20Z")
Kable, I don’t dismiss Paul outright. I struggle with Paul. Paul’s attitudes towards women seems outdated and cultural. Is it? Is what Paul wrote about women the GOSPEL? I don’t know, but there is no way I am telling my wife or mother or daughters that they can’t speak in church. It just seems wrong to me. The fact is that the apostles were men and they got stuff wrong ALL THE TIME. One of the big issues I have is hanging on every word. There are plenty of things in the Bible that we just are not going to figure out because we just can’t have the mind of a first century world. I am going to try to pick out the basic message and basic principles and attempt to apply them. I find that I am so busy with just Jesus’ two commandments that I have little time for picking nits. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/74 "2014-01-02T15:01:38Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > Kable, I don’t dismiss Paul outright. I struggle with Paul. > > Paul’s attitudes towards women seems outdated and cultural. Is it? Is what Paul wrote about women the GOSPEL? I don’t know, but there is no way I am telling my wife or mother or daughters that they can’t speak in church. It just seems wrong to me. > > The fact is that the apostles were men and they got stuff wrong ALL THE TIME. > > One of the big issues I have is hanging on every word. There are plenty of things in the Bible that we just are not going to figure out because we just can’t have the mind of a first century world. I am going to try to pick out the basic message and basic principles and attempt to apply them. I find that I am so busy with just Jesus’ two commandments that I have little time for picking nits. OK, and again I asked you about Jesus. Do you think you should follow his every word? He gave more than two commandments. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/75 "2014-01-02T15:08:36Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > See but you are cherry picking. The Bible also says to kill homosexuals, right? And if you prefer the words of Jesus he would probably say that people should repent of sin, rather than try and justify it, and I think he said he would cast you into hellfire if you don’t. At least that’s what I gather from reading the Bible. I mean yeah, sometimes you should hate the sin and love the sinner, but the sinner needs to repent, or else. Why is your take on Christianity a fundamentalist and/or literalist one? While there are certainly people believe the bible in those lights, I haven’t seen the OP take those stances, yet. Jesus never said repent “or else”. He spoke a methodology of loving your neighbor and other things and gave the consequences of those actions. If you live a good life by His actual teachings you will prosper in heaven, according to the belief. Jesus did not speak of hell fire in an afterlife. He said that you wouldn’t go to heaven and would simply “perish.” (Which, by the way, was the same word for “lost” in the original texts.) If you are talking about the situations where he says “Go and sin no more.” why do you think there is an “or else” on there? When someone says “Good morning.” to you, do you think that they will hunt you down if you don’t? It’s closer to a blessing than a command, despite what a lot of people believe about that particular situation with the adulteress. Try not to equate the faith with the supposedly faithful. We shouldn’t condemn all of Islam simply because we disagree with it, nor because some of those that follow Islam has decided to be all terrorist-y. I, personally, am on-board with moving against the terrorists (if possible) but not people who practice the religion peacefully. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/76 "2014-01-02T15:38:54Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > Why is your take on Christianity a fundamentalist and/or literalist one? Why shouldn’t it be? > [@](#): > > While there are certainly people believe the bible in those lights, I haven’t seen the OP take those stances, yet. The OP said “…I believe in what Jesus said and how he said to live.” > [@](#): > > Jesus never said repent “or else”. He spoke a methodology of loving your neighbor and other things and gave the consequences of those actions. Those “consequences” are pretty much the same as “or else.” > [@](#): > > If you live a good life by His actual teachings you will prosper in heaven, according to the belief. Or else what? > [@](#): > > Jesus did not speak of hell fire in an afterlife. He said that you wouldn’t go to heaven and would simply “perish.” (Which, by the way, was the same word for “lost” in the original texts.) So your interpretation is the “or else” means that Jesus kills your soul? ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/77 "2014-01-02T15:55:04Z")
If I am cherry picking, then so be it. I have to interpret my own beliefs and actions. I simply do not put the interpretations of the apostles into the same category as I put the words of Jesus and for that matter, my own interpretation. Did Jesus speak of heaven and hell? Sure. Does the Bible speak of things that in the light of today look pretty awful? Sure. At the same time, I am specifically trying to understand and apply the teachings that I find worthwhile to myself. Jesus also tells me that by what measure I judge I will be judged so I am shooting for a thimble here when it comes to others. My first priority is to hold myself accountable. Even if you remove any possibility of Jesus being anything beyond just some other guy, he had some pretty remarkable and useful things to live by. Others have done that as well. I find that Ghandi applied those same basic principles in a way that I find inspiring; especially the use of non-violent peaceful protest. I would be thrilled with myself if only my whole life reflected the types of actions as Ghandi, but I already kind of screwed that up. Today, I will do what I can and tomorrow I will try to do better. What you do and how you do it is your path. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/78 "2014-01-02T15:58:39Z")
Kable, I don’t dispute that Jesus said this is the path that leads to good things and there are many paths that lead to bad things. Jesus spoke at length about hell. What is your point? What is it that you are trying to extract here? I believe in the Bible and everything in it. How I apply that, I have to interpret, maneuver and act as I see best. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/79 "2014-01-02T16:08:12Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Why shouldn’t it be? Nevermind. He clarified while writing this. > [@Kable](#): > > Those “consequences” are pretty much the same as “or else.” If I say “If you work for me for one day, I’ll give you $1,000” that means that the “or else” is nothing but “You don’t work for me and you don’t get $1,000 for that day.” “Or Else” is a threat of something worse than simply not taking the deal, which would be closer to “If you work for me for one day, I’ll give you $1,000. If you don’t work for me and make that $1,000, I’ll cut the head off of your beloved dog Woofie.” That’s an “or else.” That being said, the “or else” is VERY prevalent among certain denominations of Christians. That doesn’t mean Jesus said it, and the OP hasn’t said he believes that particular version of damnation. > [@Kable](#): > > Or else what? I answered this, and you responded to the answer of this. Why did you ask it? > [@Kable](#): > > So your interpretation is the “or else” means that Jesus kills your soul? I can’t say what specifically happens to those not pulled into Heaven. There is no map for it. What I do know is that Jesus called the soul lost and did not say you would burn for all eternity. So, you get Heavened if you live life according to His words and you don’t if you don’t. That’s as far as I can say using the Biblical version of His words as a source. Whether that means a Revelations-style rapture followed by a 7-headed-beast squishing the heads of the damned for everyone else or a simple eternally black nap, I couldn’t guess. Hey, hey! Maybe non-believer souls are where stars come from! Enternal black nap, crushing from all directions AND eternal - or at least, very long - hell fire! ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/80 "2014-01-02T16:17:40Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > I don’t dispute that Jesus said this is the path that leads to good things and there are many paths that lead to bad things. Jesus spoke at length about hell. We don’t know what Jesus spoke about. We don’t have any writings of his. We have no first-hand experiences, the only possible second-hand experiences weren’t written down until 30-100 years later, and we don’t know who wrote them. We’re not too damn sure Jesse ever existed. So when you say “Jesus spoke about…” you are making a giant leap of faith. You _can_ say that we have ancient writings describing what _a person called Jesus might have said._ They also might reflect the wild, batshit fantasies some anonymous, pious and paranoid scribe dreamed up while on a weekend bender when he couldn’t get laid. Keep that in mind if you plan to live your life in accordance with 2000 year old text. > [@](#): > > I believe in the Bible and everything in it. How I apply that, I have to interpret, maneuver and act as I see best. Everything? How do you reconcile the bible with geology, biology, history, cosmology, astronomy, physics, chemistry, zoology and the other sciences? Do you just ignore the numerous contradictions? Is ignoring it what you mean by “interpreting”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076.md?page=5)