# My Christianity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076 "2013-12-24T13:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/101 "2014-01-02T23:41:08Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I think the core of both Testaments is to love God or face the consequences. Being kind to others was secondary. I’m not sure which type of Christianity that is, I’m more of the basic type … Love your brother as you love yourself … I suppose if one hated his brother as they hate themselves, well, that’s one kind of hell I’m avoiding. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/102 "2014-01-02T23:47:17Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I’m not sure which type of Christianity that is, I’m more of the basic type … It’s the kind of Christianity that follows the teaching of Christ. You know, teachings like this: > [@Jesus](#): > > He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16 > > And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28 ---
**Author:** ![QueenOfClubs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/53a042/32.png) [@QueenOfClubs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenOfClubs)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/103 "2014-01-02T23:49:23Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > OK, and again I asked you about Jesus. Do you think you should follow his every word? He gave more than two commandments. Ok, the two commandments Jesus was asked and replied to the be the most important ones were: Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself All the other commandments are essentially covered by the second one. Loving your neighbor covers for not stealing from him, slandering him, sleeping with his wife, murdering him and so forth. So basically he covers all the comandments with just those two. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/104 "2014-01-03T00:26:29Z")
> [@QueenOfClubs](#): > > Ok, the two commandments Jesus was asked and replied to the be the most important ones were: > > Love God > > and > > Love your neighbor as yourself Sort of, it goes like this right? > [@Jesus](#): > > Matthew 22:37-40 > New International Version (NIV) > 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’\*\* 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” So loving God/him his the first and greatest commandment, and loving your neighbor as yourself is, quite clearly as I stated before, lesser. And what makes you think Jesus actually said that anyway? Can’t those verses be mistranslations or falsely attributed to him? > [@](#): > > All the other commandments are essentially covered by the second one. Loving your neighbor covers for not stealing from him, slandering him, sleeping with his wife, murdering him and so forth. > > So basically he covers all the comandments with just those two. But do those two really cover all the others? Which of those covers Jesus saying if you just look at another with lust, that’s the same as adultery? Which one covers marrying someone who has been divorced as being adulterous? Which of those tells you not to save for tomorrow? ---
**Author:** ![QueenOfClubs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/53a042/32.png) [@QueenOfClubs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenOfClubs)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/105 "2014-01-03T00:36:14Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Sort of, it goes like this right? > But do those two really cover all the others? Which of those covers Jesus saying if you just look at another with lust, that’s the same as adultery? Which one covers marrying someone who has been divorced as being adulterous? Which of those tells you not to save for tomorrow? Basically I think love thy neighbor as thyself really does cover not coveting your neighbor’s wife. In Protestant versions, marrying a divorced person wouldn’t be adultery, however in Catholicism it is. I would suspect it has to do with loving your own wife and children not to leave them to rot on public benefits or whatever equivalent there was thereof in that place and those times. That might even cover for not making society as a whole pick up the expense of deserted families. Sounds pretty loving to me. And on the not to save for tomorrow, however inane that sounds on surface, it has a lot to do with misplaced priorities and faith in God. I rediscover the truth of that premise over and over at different times in my life. Basically, it’s a warning against pride, I would think, assuming that you got somewhere by working hard when there are tons of other people who work just as hard or harder and don’t get the benefit of it. People should appreciate what they have and help others. The whole world would be better off as would the person who is so in sync with the teachings and receives the joy from doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/106 "2014-01-03T00:42:41Z")
> [@QueenOfClubs](#): > > Ok, the two commandments Jesus was asked and replied to the be the most important ones were: > Love God > and > Love your neighbor as yourself . . . I find myself in awe of the expansion of the latter, where we are to love our enemies also. It’s easy enough to love our neighbors – most times, our neighbors are pretty decent folks. But to love those who oppress us, those who would slay us – that requires a level of saintly compassion that is truly divine. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/107 "2014-01-03T00:47:52Z")
> [@QueenOfClubs](#): > > In Protestant versions, marrying a divorced person wouldn’t be adultery… What versions are those? I thought the KJV was popular among Protestants, but for the life of me I can’t find any version of Matthew 5:32 that reads different: > **[Matthew 5:32 - Divorce](https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-32.htm)** > > But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, brings adultery upon her. And he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. > [@](#): > > I would suspect it has to do with loving your own wife and children not to leave them to rot on public benefits or whatever equivalent there was thereof in that place and those times. That might even cover for not making society as a whole pick up the expense of deserted families. Sounds pretty loving to me. OK, but if a woman has been divorced and with kids, it’s loving not to marry and support her because that would be adultery? > [@](#): > > And on the not to save for tomorrow, however inane that sounds on surface, it has a lot to do with misplaced priorities and faith in God. I rediscover the truth of that premise over and over at different times in my life. Basically, it’s a warning against pride… Silly me I thought it was simply Jesus saying not to save for tomorrow. So if I understand you correctly, if you read the Bible and it says something inane, you just pretend it says something completely different. Good one.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/108 "2014-01-03T00:49:28Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I find myself in awe of the expansion of the latter, where we are to love our enemies also. It’s easy enough to love our neighbors – most times, our neighbors are pretty decent folks. But to love those who oppress us, those who would slay us – that requires a level of saintly compassion that is truly divine. Personally I consider it extremely irrational, immoral & self destructive, and a point _against_ Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/109 "2014-01-03T00:52:40Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I find myself in awe of the expansion of the latter, where we are to love our enemies also. It’s easy enough to love our neighbors – most times, our neighbors are pretty decent folks. But to love those who oppress us, those who would slay us – that requires a level of saintly compassion that is truly divine. So what do you think made God change his mind from the Old Testament? And why doesn’t Jesus practice what he preaches (haha) to those who don’t worship him in the afterlife? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/110 "2014-01-03T01:14:53Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > So loving God/him his the first and greatest commandment, and loving your neighbor as yourself is, quite clearly as I stated before, lesser. And what makes you think Jesus actually said that anyway? Can’t those verses be mistranslations or falsely attributed to him? I have from the King James “39: And the second _is_ like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” [italics in text]. The simple reading would give that they are the same thing, or ‘like unto it’ in some similar fashion. Remember that this is in a tradition where all commandments are equal. > [@Kable](#): > > But do those two really cover all the others? Which of those covers Jesus saying if you just look at another with lust, that’s the same as adultery? Which one covers marrying someone who has been divorced as being adulterous? Which of those tells you not to save for tomorrow? Do you have seven years for practical study? That just starts you on the path of understanding. A Daughter of Zion once told me that the rest of the Bible is just the “how to” of loving, like how to not adulterate. I’m afraid you’ll have to accept these two commandments on the faith they are The Truth, and that understanding will come once you live your life in accordance with these two. I can only promise you’ll attract the company of honest people. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/111 "2014-01-03T01:30:26Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > What versions are those? I thought the KJV was popular among Protestants, but for the life of me I can’t find any version of Matthew 5:32 that reads different: > > [Matthew 5:32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, brings adultery upon her. And he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.](http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-32.htm) Yuppers … read them and weep … anyone who would intentionally hurt children deserves the same judgement I suffer. Divorce is wicked, those that would condone it are brutal to their own, just like me. Excommunication from the congregation of The Lord, the righteous do not tolerate a divorcee. I’m the last person who should be getting in homosexuals’ faces. I’m not a Prodestinant or whatever ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/112 "2014-01-03T01:31:52Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I have from the King James “39: And the second _is_ like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” [italics in text]. The simple reading would give that they are the same thing, or ‘like unto it’ in some similar fashion. Remember that this is in a tradition where all commandments are equal. OK, so not wearing a mixed fiber fabric is equal to Loving the Lord with all your heart? > [@](#): > > Do you have seven years for practical study? That just starts you on the path of understanding. That sounds like a tremendous waste of time. I think I read the Bible in a couple months, and that was enough to conclude it was hogwash. Sorry it’s taking you so much longer. > [@](#): > > A Daughter of Zion once told me… What’s a daughter of Zion? A Jew, don’t they all go to hell too for not accepting Jesus? > [@](#): > > I’m afraid you’ll have to accept these two commandments on the faith they are The Truth… No thanks. > [@](#): > > I can only promise you’ll attract the company of honest people. I know a lot of Christians and I never noticed them to be particularly honest. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/113 "2014-01-03T01:36:28Z")
If you are not searching, why are you asking? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/114 "2014-01-03T01:36:50Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Yuppers … read them and weep … Why? > [@](#): > > …anyone who would intentionally hurt children deserves the same judgement I suffer. What judgement do you suffer? > [@](#): > > Divorce is wicked, those that would condone it are brutal to their own, just like me. You are brutal to your own? How so? > [@](#): > > Excommunication from the congregation of The Lord, the righteous do not tolerate a divorcee. Hmmm, most churches I know of tolerate divorce just fine. > [@](#): > > I’m the last person who should be getting in homosexuals’ faces. That much, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/115 "2014-01-03T01:37:59Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > If you are not searching, why are you asking? Socratic method. ---
**Author:** ![QueenOfClubs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/53a042/32.png) [@QueenOfClubs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenOfClubs)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/116 "2014-01-03T01:59:18Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > What versions are those? I thought the KJV was popular among Protestants, but for the life of me I can’t find any version of Matthew 5:32 that reads different: > > [Matthew 5:32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, brings adultery upon her. And he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.](http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-32.htm) > OK, but if a woman has been divorced and with kids, it’s loving not to marry and support her because that would be adultery? > Silly me I thought it was simply Jesus saying not to save for tomorrow. So if I understand you correctly, if you read the Bible and it says something inane, you just pretend it says something completely different. Good one.:dubious: Protestants for the most part believe that once you accept Jesus into your heart you are saved from then after. This is how some Christians justify things like adultery, serial killing or whatever, because they believe that nothing they can do after becoming born again counts. Catholics are different. You are baptized into a state of grace, but if your behavior and choices are sinful, you fall out of grace. In those situations, you have to repent (and mean it) in confession and strive to avoid giving in to temptation to stay in a state of grace. This is why Catholics have confessions on the death bed and Last Rites. Imo, Catholics have it all over protest versions of Christianity because of this difference in theology. You taking my words out of context, btw, doesn’t make them wrong. It means they have been taken out of context. One wouldn’t have to worry about marrying divorced women if men weren’t allowed to divorce them and abandon their families in the first place. Same with lots of other Biblical guidelines. Without promiscuous pre-marital sex, and no divorce, there are considerably less single parent households and thus less poverty and less social damage from children being raised without a father. The Biblical suggestions are basically a roadmap for emotionally healthy people and a working larger society. ---
**Author:** ![QueenOfClubs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/53a042/32.png) [@QueenOfClubs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenOfClubs)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/117 "2014-01-03T02:01:30Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Socratic method. I found Socrates highly annoying for the same reason, btw. He held these question and answer sessions to disprove things, but he didn’t suggest what to replace them with. I think Aristotle and others at least gave it a shot, so I have more respect for them. What Socrates did was weasel around the issues without committing to anything, kind of like our politicians do now. It’s not surprising they executed him. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/118 "2014-01-03T02:05:21Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Socratic method. Ah, thus the questions about why I agree with you. I’m impressed you read the Bible, that’s a good thing. I respect your decision to not buy in. If this is to be a Great Debate, I’d like to hear what you think the meaning of life is? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/119 "2014-01-03T02:12:37Z")
> [@QueenOfClubs](#): > > Without promiscuous pre-marital sex, and no divorce, there are considerably less single parent households and thus less poverty and less social damage from children being raised without a father. I believe the principle here is that we shouldn’t think about sex as much as you usually do. The young are allowed their courtships and the effort for such, but once they settle and have kids … it’s a done deal. Now you have time to mow the neighbor widow-woman’s yard, or whatever. The heathen spend an inordinate amount of time trying to get … well … an inordinate amount of time. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076/120 "2014-01-03T02:16:12Z")
> [@QueenOfClubs](#): > > Protestants for the most part believe that once you accept Jesus into your heart you are saved from then after. This is how some Christians justify things like adultery, serial killing or whatever, because they believe that nothing they can do after becoming born again counts. Pffft: > **[Matthew 7:21 - A Tree and its Fruit](https://biblehub.com/matthew/7-21.htm)** > > Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. > [@](#): > > One wouldn’t have to worry about marrying divorced women if men weren’t allowed to divorce them and abandon their families in the first place. Well suppose the man beats her from time to time and she gets divorced. You really think it’s a sin for another man to marry her and for her to remarry? > [@](#): > > Same with lots of other Biblical guidelines. Without promiscuous pre-marital sex… I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t want to live in a world that didn’t have promiscuous pre-marital sex. > [@](#): > > …and no divorce, there are considerably less single parent households and thus less poverty and less social damage from children being raised without a father. That’s all great, and abortion helps too, I’m sure, but do you think it wrong for a woman to divorce her husband, say if he is physically abusing her, and marry a kinder man who loves her and can help provide for her her children? > [@](#): > > The Biblical suggestions are basically a roadmap for emotionally healthy people and a working larger society. “Suggestions?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-christianity/677076.md?page=7)