# My corporation is my passenger. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 6, 2013, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242 "2013-01-06T06:59:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/1 "2013-01-06T06:59:12Z")
> **[U.S. News: Latest Breaking Stories, Video, and Photos on American Politics,...](https://www.nbcnews.com/us-news?lite)** > > Get the latest news headlines and top stories from NBCNews.com. Find videos and news articles on the latest stories in the US. It;s still very early, but this guy is my favorite for the Beautiful Smartass with big-ol-hairy-ones of the year award . ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/2 "2013-01-06T07:13:19Z")
It sounds like activism, to me. He seems to be trying to make a point about corporate legal personhood, taking it to its ridiculous legal extreme. He even says he hopes the case will go well beyond traffic court to spur discussion about corporate personhood. I dunno that a traffic ticket will set the stage for revising the laws on corporate personhood, but I wish him luck. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/3 "2013-01-06T07:17:52Z")
Not argued at all. The guy is an idiot wrestling the tide. But itā€™s like the time Seinfeld went and heckled the lady at her office job. Being the guy who actually _does_ it is worth some recognition. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/4 "2013-01-06T10:01:37Z")
What amazes me is that this guy had to try for _ten years_ to get a ticket for driving in the carpool lane. I mean, crikey, even with a $481 ticket, thatā€™s less than fifty bucks a year for HOV privileges! šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/5 "2013-01-06T15:05:34Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > It sounds like activism, to me. ā€¦ Yes it does seem that way, and to some extent I agree with it and wish him well. Peace ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/6 "2013-01-06T15:19:43Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > What amazes me is that this guy had to try for _ten years_ to get a ticket for driving in the carpool lane. I mean, crikey, even with a $481 ticket, thatā€™s less than fifty bucks a year for HOV privileges! šŸ˜ƒ Yep. I know people who refuse to buy subway tickets out of principle. They say that when you figure in how infrequently they get caught, turnstile-hopping is still cheaper than buying tickets. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/7 "2013-01-06T15:25:22Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Yep. I know people who refuse to buy subway tickets out of principle. They say that when you figure in how infrequently they get caught, turnstile-hopping is still cheaper than buying tickets. what principle? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/8 "2013-01-06T15:31:26Z")
> [@rsat3acr](#): > > what principle? Economic? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/9 "2013-01-06T15:36:10Z")
Iā€™m backing this guy all the way. Well as long as it takes no effort on my part anyway. But itā€™s still a great move. Based on the detailed legal analysis in the article that consists of a few unverified statements, he has an open and shut case. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/10 "2013-01-06T18:42:44Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Iā€™m backing this guy all the way. Well as long as it takes no effort on my part anyway. But itā€™s still a great move. Based on the detailed legal analysis in the article that consists of a few unverified statements, he has an open and shut case. I know right!, I am totally checking out my states motor vehicle code today! HOV here I come! Regards, -Bouncer- PS: One thing he got right: ā€œPersonā€ includes a natural person, firm, co-partnership, association, limited liability company, or corporation. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/11 "2013-01-06T19:22:20Z")
His otherwise brilliant argument fails on this point: the corporationā€™s papers are not the corporation. By the same token, I canā€™t drive in the HOV-lane with my sonā€™s birth certificate; I need him sitting there. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/12 "2013-01-06T19:38:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > His otherwise brilliant argument fails on this point: the corporationā€™s papers are not the corporation. By the same token, I canā€™t drive in the HOV-lane with my sonā€™s birth certificate; I need him sitting there. What if youā€™re a Freeman on the land? šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/13 "2013-01-06T19:49:54Z")
I donā€™t know about california, but most HOV stautes specify the qualifying person must be a licensed driver; children and unlicense people donā€™t count, so neither would a corporation. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/14 "2013-01-06T20:50:08Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I donā€™t know about california, but most HOV stautes specify the qualifying person must be a licensed driver; children and unlicense people donā€™t count, so neither would a corporation. Ohh, so now weā€™re going start discriminating against corporate persons by denying them driverā€™s licenses just because they have the physical disability of being non-corporeal? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/15 "2013-01-06T20:57:49Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Ohh, so now weā€™re going start discriminating against corporate persons by denying them driverā€™s licenses just because they have the physical disability of being non-corporeal? Corporations have the right to take the driving test and eye test, just like everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/16 "2013-01-06T21:47:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > His otherwise brilliant argument fails on this point: the corporationā€™s papers are not the corporation. By the same token, I canā€™t drive in the HOV-lane with my sonā€™s birth certificate; I need him sitting there. Yes, thatā€™s where the argument fails. Corporations are abstractions, and cannot be physically present anywhere. So, a law that said hat no more than 10 persons could travel in an elevator would not be breached by one natural person carrying the corporate papers of 12 corporations in a briefcase. A corporation is not even the totality of its shareholders or members. Suppose you had two natural persons, who had set up 12 corporations in which they were the only shareholders. If they got into an elevator, or into a car, there would only be 2 persons present, not 14. A more extreme example: if Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth were driving by herself in that carpool lane, she could not argue that beside herself as a natural person there were numerous corporations sole, e.g., the Crown in right of the United Kingdom, the Crown in right of Canada, the Crown in right of New South Wales, etc. Those corporations cannot be physically present anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/17 "2013-01-06T21:56:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > His otherwise brilliant argument fails on this point: the corporationā€™s papers are not the corporation. By the same token, I canā€™t drive in the HOV-lane with my sonā€™s birth certificate; I need him sitting there. Youā€™ve hit it right on the nose. Using that logic, is there anything he could have had in the passenger seat that might have counted as being the corporation itself? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/18 "2013-01-06T22:07:59Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I donā€™t know about california, but most HOV stautes specify the qualifying person must be a licensed driver; children and unlicense people donā€™t count, so neither would a corporation. Iā€™ve never heard of that, and donā€™t know how it could be enforced in terms of unlicensed drivers. I believe there was one case, in CA IIRC, where someone driving a hearse claimed to have more than one person in the car. He didnā€™t win, but I assume dead people arenā€™t consider persons under the law. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/19 "2013-01-06T22:13:51Z")
It appears children, (post partum) are [qualifying passengers in California](http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/paffairs/faq/faq79.htm): > [@](#): > > Each vehicle that travels on an HOV lane must carry the minimum number of people posted at the entrance signs. Usually that means at least two people, or in some cases three people. Each child counts as an occupant, but pets, infants still in the womb, inflatable dolls or ghosts do not (weā€™ve heard 'em all). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-corporation-is-my-passenger/646242/20 "2013-01-08T20:41:28Z")
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