# My dad is getting taken advantage of over his father's estate **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 14, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373 "2009-05-14T01:56:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/21 "2009-05-14T11:42:29Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > A few points for clarity: > > My dad was given - that is, deeded - the 5 acres years ago and built a house and has lived there. The spoken agreement was this land was given to him in exchange for his help in maintaining the farm over the years, not as part of the estate. But since that was never written down, meh, probably nothing can be done. Maybe I’m missing something, but it seems to me if the 5 acres was deeded to your father years ago, then your grandfather’s estate only had 25 acres to be divided among his children. Why would anyone believe that 5 acres your father owns is part of the estate? Nobody would believe that if we were talking about a cash gift made 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/22 "2009-05-14T12:00:15Z")
> [@Cazzle](#): > > Boulder, Colorado is in the United States, and that’s where [Richard McLean and Edith Stevens were awarded 34% of their neighbour’s land](http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/feb/14/mclean-stevens-outraged-new-twist-boulder-land-gra/?printer=1/) under Adverse Possession laws after they (disputedly) used a pathway across it for 18 years. Ah, sorry **Cazzle** …for some reason I didn’t see your previous post about A/Possesion and thought I was being _terribly_ clever about bringing it up this far into the thread. Just call me Redundant Rob…😃 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/23 "2009-05-14T12:04:14Z")
What **Doreen** said. Your “clarifying” post where you talk about the deed muddies the issue. Do they have property taxes in the state where your granddad lived? If so, who paid the property taxes on that five acres for the past twenty years? Does your granddad’s will state “thirty acres will be divided equally among my three children”? Or does it state "My landed property will be divided equally among my three children? If your dad was paying the property taxes, ISTM he’s got a pretty good case that your granddad only had 25 acres to bequeath, regardless of what numbers are in the will. Disclaimer: IANAL. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/24 "2009-05-14T12:08:39Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Ah, sorry **Cazzle** …for some reason I didn’t see your previous post about A/Possesion and thought I was being _terribly_ clever about bringing it up this far into the thread. > > Just call me Redundant Rob…😃 Just avoid being clever- we think someone is using your account 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/25 "2009-05-14T12:18:16Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > Just avoid being clever- we think someone is using your account 😃 Oh, we are _very_ wry tonight aren’t we **Cicero**! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/26 "2009-05-14T12:21:43Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > A few points for clarity: > > My dad was given - that is, deeded - the 5 acres years ago and built a house and has lived there. The spoken agreement was this land was given to him in exchange for his help in maintaining the farm over the years, not as part of the estate. But since that was never written down, meh, probably nothing can be done. > > I have talked to dad many times about going on the roof. Last night he told me he was up there again, he says, I know I shouldn’t…". He is retired and goes up there during the day when I am at work. > > He is the executor of the estate. The land is titles in whole to the 3 siblings, not divided into parts. > … IANAL, but it sounds like something can easily be done. If your dad already has a claim and a deed to 5 acres, then those 5 acres are no longer even part of the estate. If the will specifies that the property will be equally divided among the children, then your dad will get 1/3 of what’s left. What does the will say? Why is this even a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/27 "2009-05-14T12:22:04Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > A few points for clarity: > > My dad was given - that is, deeded - the 5 acres years ago and built a house and has lived there. The spoken agreement was this land was given to him in exchange for his help in maintaining the farm over the years, not as part of the estate. But since that was never written down, meh, probably nothing can be done. What do you mean nothing can be done? The 5 acres is your dad’s not the estates, and really shouldn’t have anything to do with the disposition of the estate. The estate is 25 acres, jointly owned, they should just sell the 25 and split the proceed 3 ways. Seems pretty black and white to me. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/28 "2009-05-14T12:25:46Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Ah, sorry **Cazzle** …for some reason I didn’t see your previous post about A/Possesion and thought I was being _terribly_ clever about bringing it up this far into the thread. > > Just call me Redundant Rob…😃 Two Aussies, two references to Adverse Possession… I’m worried we’re living up (down?) to some kind of squatter stereotype. Crikey! 😃 And to the OP, I would like to add that your father’s claim to the land would be even stronger if he has built a house on it, particularly if he built more than 15, 18 or 20 years ago (depending on the Adverse Possession laws in your region). He really should consult a legal professional in his area about this, because it might make an irrelevancy of proving that the land was given to him. That’d stick it to the Aunts! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/29 "2009-05-14T12:27:18Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > Your father definitely should consult a lawyer. > > Who is the executor of the estate? That is the person normally in charge of hiring someone to maintain the property (and paying for it out of the estate). This is what I stopped by to say. Talk to a lawyer and find out who’s the boss. If there is a lot of squabbling, I think the state can appoint an executor to save people from themselves. Not sure, but a lawyer can tell you what the laws are in that state. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/30 "2009-05-14T12:35:21Z")
> [@Cazzle](#): > > And to the OP, I would like to add that your father’s claim to the land would be even stronger if he has built a house on it, particularly if he built more than 15, 18 or 20 years ago (depending on the Adverse Possession laws in your region). He really should consult a legal professional in his area about this, because it might make an irrelevancy of proving that the land was given to him. That’d stick it to the Aunts! What **Cazzle** said. once a house is built on such a property, the claim to ownership under the precepts of Adverse Possession are even greater from a legal POV. Get a lawyer, and make sure your grandad’s dying wishes (at least to some extent) are accomodated with the division of the assets. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/31 "2009-05-14T12:37:13Z")
Why would he need adverse possession if he’s already got the deed to the 5 acres? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/32 "2009-05-14T12:50:56Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Why would he need adverse possession if he’s already got the deed to the 5 acres? Exactly. It sounds as though the Dad has not contacted a lawyer. I’ll be damned if I can figure out why that is. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/33 "2009-05-14T13:00:39Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Oh, we are _very_ wry tonight aren’t we **Cicero**! > > 😃 What do you mean **tonight**? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/34 "2009-05-14T13:06:25Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > What do you mean **tonight**? Oh, orright, you’re clever and snarky ALL the time. I bow before your wit and wryness oh **Great Cicero**. That better? :D:D ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/35 "2009-05-14T13:08:08Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > The sisters are legalizing things. He spent $450 on mower repairs last year out of his own pocket because it is, after all, his mower. When talking about purchasing the new one, he asked wether that would be considered as his contribution. They said, “You never gave us any receipts.” I think he should present them a bill for th 28 times he has cut the grass over the last few years. > > This will not end well. Yeah, this is unfortunate, but since your Aunts are being moneygrubbing who–errrr, um, moneygrubbing not-so-nice people, there really isn’t any other way to treat this than a business relationship (although the “business” is not run for profit, it has expenses). Your dad is in business with two other people who are screwing him over. At the least, he should probably document all his past expenses to the extent possible and DEFINITELY his future expenses. And yeah, a lawyer may be necessary. As far as old bills, there must be other ways besides a receipt to show the purchase. Perhaps the retailer kept a record you could get a copy of? Or you could get the old credit card bills. I would think you also could just show the purchase was made, and then show in whatever way you can that it couldn’t have cost less than X amount of money… ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/36 "2009-05-14T13:13:17Z")
Lots of good - and accurate - info so far. If your dad has a deed, he owns the 5 acres. Well, there could be issues regarding consideration, whether the deed was recorded, etc., but he ought to be in pretty good shape there. Since he is executor, he can incur reasonable expenses to maintain the estate. On both of these matters, he would do well to consult an attorney. And yes, as has been mentioned several times already, all too often deaths/estates bring out the owrst in families. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/37 "2009-05-14T13:30:44Z")
Tell your dad to fake a fall off the roof. Present a bill to the estate for $800,000 in medical bills. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/38 "2009-05-14T13:35:54Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Not in the United States. It would be more accurate to say not in all states. In general, yes- although if he’s the executor of the estate he would have to establish that he’s actually maintaining his five acres as his own rather than in his capacity as the executor. Fencing it off from the rest (if it isn’t already) would be a good idea. And I absolutely second the advice to lawyer up. I bet his sisters will shortly anyway. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/39 "2009-05-14T14:45:31Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Why do wills always bring out the worst in people? Because most people are lazy greedy children or naive trusting fools? Because they make choices based on emotion and a sense of entitlement instead of reason, logic and point of law? Why would \*\*newcrasher’s \*\*grandfather not put anything in writing? Who the fuck just gives away land on a word and a handshake? I’m buying some property now and I have like 20 pages of contract to go through! And maybe the sisters don’t WANT to maintain the property. They are well within their rites (local zoning laws withstanding) to just let their shares go back to nature and then sell the land to a developer at some later date. That’s the problem with expecting people to split stuff. Everyone has their own idea of how it should be used and everyone thinks the other person is a jerk for not going along. That is why you need clear ownership. People who own stuff can do as they please with it and are not beheld to other people’s emotional appeals. My advice is to get a lawyer so your dad and everyone else clearly understands their rights and options. > [@bengangmo](#): > > Your father is behaving honourably and like any brother in the family should. > > I don’t think you should go all legalese on it. Is there anyway you could help your father with the roof work? This is what I would do. Sorry but to me that is part of “family” even if the sisters are being bitches. > > As to the $1,500 instead of $5k - maybe that is from ignorance? The mower that has alreay been run into the ground is just a sunk cost. Leave it and let it go. If you start going down that road it never ends - you will be turning a family into a calculative corporation, which is not the way to go. > > Note: I am not saying that the situation is fair or just, rather that its simply the way a family works sometimes - qudos to your dad for willing to be a stand-up guy. Honorably, but not rationally. The best solution IMHO, is to get a lawyer, figure out everyone’s rights to the property and come to a settlement that everyone can agree to. Otherwise what will happen is you will get into these emotional appeals and retroactive dealmaking (“I’ve been mowing the lawn for years..you guys should buy the new mower…what’s that now?”) that leaves everyone bent out of shape. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373/40 "2009-05-14T14:52:47Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Why would \*\*newcrasher’s \*\*grandfather not put anything in writing? Who the fuck just gives away land on a word and a handshake? I’m buying some property now and I have like 20 pages of contract to go through! Old people. And people who assume that their kids didn’t grow up to be assholes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-dad-is-getting-taken-advantage-of-over-his-fathers-estate/496373.md?page=3)