# "My Daughter Was Dress-Coded For Wearing Shorts" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450 "2014-06-10T01:03:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/1 "2014-06-10T01:03:23Z")
That’s the title of [this Slate article.](http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/06/09/dress_codes_and_the_fingertip_rule_schools_should_not_be_telling_girls_that.html) > [@](#): > > Her shorts violated the “fingertip” rule of the South Orange-Maplewood School District—whereby shorts or skirts must “reach to the fingertips of the extended arm”—now notorious in middle school vernacular. Shortly after I snapped the shot, she was pulled from class and sent to detention, where she was ordered to don a Hester Prynne–style “shirt of shame” for the rest of the school day—an oversized men’s shirt that covered her from neck to shins. I post this to question one small aspect of the author’s narrative. > [@](#): > > After my daughter was punished on that spring day two years ago, I’ve struggled with this issue. I’ve vetoed bat mitzvah dresses I deemed too short, camisoles too low-cut. It is a fine line: I want her to feel comfortable in her skin. But parenting teenagers is all about the gray areas; our discussions about dress and self-awareness leave room for nuance. In rejecting an outfit, I have never, ever communicated to my child that her dress was a “distraction” to others or that she bore responsibility if someone reacted in any way—favorably, rudely, distracted, or otherwise—to her body. That schools are passing on this very message to her and other female students—and simultaneously communicating to boys that their learning environment is being compromised by the sight of girls’ limbs or cleavage—is unhealthy and unsound at best, illegal at worst. If I could talk to the author, I’d ask her what rationales she _has_ used to justify rejecting an outfit. Assuming the wearer is comfortable with what he or she is wearing and that distractions or reactions by others are off-limits as reasons, what are some other grounds upon which to veto wardrobe choices? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/2 "2014-06-10T01:21:50Z")
If the dress code is there and shorts are specifically forbidden, then what is the mother’s problem? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/3 "2014-06-10T01:35:14Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > If the dress code is there and shorts are specifically forbidden, then what is the mother’s problem? I suspect boys are not similarly shamed for showing too much thigh, or that their showing of flesh is not criticized as distracting girls from being able to concentrate. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/4 "2014-06-10T02:26:39Z")
Then she needs to get the dress code ended, not complain when it’s enforced ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/5 "2014-06-10T02:37:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I suspect boys are not similarly shamed for showing too much thigh, or that their showing of flesh is not criticized as distracting girls from being able to concentrate. I’ll betcha that that item of the dress code is entirely gender-neutral, and that boys and girls alike are prohibited from wearing lower garments that are higher than their fingers. I suppose there might be differences in enforcement, but the burden of proof is on the one claiming that. Note that just showing the number of citations given to boys and to girls is not a proof, since there might just be differences in the rate of actual offenses. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/6 "2014-06-10T02:39:19Z")
**Rick** : Which I think was the point of her article, judging by her comment about “but it’s up to us parents to stand up to school administrators, to e-blast them right back.” Apparently she’s been uneasy about this since the enforcement a couple years ago and is writing this as a way to rally others. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/7 "2014-06-10T02:40:12Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I suspect boys are not similarly shamed for showing too much thigh, or that their showing of flesh is not criticized as distracting girls from being able to concentrate. I suspect boys are not wearing such short shorts. Short shorts are not in for boys right now. They are in for girls. At my son’s school they have a similar “fingertip rule” and it applies equally to boys and girls. In fact, the whole dress code is written “gender neutral”. I agree with those who say she needs to work to change the dress code at the school, not let her child violated it and expect to get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/8 "2014-06-10T02:41:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I suppose there might be differences in enforcement, but the burden of proof is on the one claiming that. Note that just showing the number of citations given to boys and to girls is not a proof, since there might just be differences in the rate of actual offenses. The message at her school seems to be directed overwhelmingly at the girls, if you believe the author: “There is talk about clothes interfering with establishing and maintaining a “learning environment”— prompting the question of whose “learning environment” is being prioritized and at whose expense. Scripted morning announcements at my daughter’s school include daily reminders, “to the young ladies,” about the importance of wearing appropriate attire.” Even if boys’ clothing rules are equally enforced and their show of skin equally forbidden, it still sends the message if only girls are reminded daily that the girls are the problem, girls distract boys, girls are disruptive, girls’ bodies are harmful to the atmosphere there. Do a general “reminder to our students” announcement. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/9 "2014-06-10T02:43:51Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I suspect boys are not similarly shamed for showing too much thigh, or that their showing of flesh is not criticized as distracting girls from being able to concentrate. I doubt there are a ton of pre-teen males showing up to school wearing short-shorts. > [@Bricker](#): > > If I could talk to the author, I’d ask her what rationales she has used to justify rejecting an outfit. > > Assuming the wearer is comfortable with what he or she is wearing and that distractions or reactions by others are off-limits as reasons, what are some other grounds upon which to veto wardrobe choices? The article isn’t particularly clear, but I think that’s the point. The mother wants to enforce some general dress-code on her daughter, but is having trouble articulating why. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/10 "2014-06-10T03:25:12Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > The message at her school seems to be directed overwhelmingly at the girls, if you believe the author: So? Girls violate the dress code more than boys. This is well known. > [@](#): > > "There is talk about clothes interfering with establishing and maintaining a “learning environment”— prompting the question of whose “learning environment” is being prioritized and at whose expense. It is absurd to think that anyone’s environment is being prioritized at someone else’s expense. There is no “expense” to dressing appropriately. Further, it’s mind bogglingly stupid to suggest that the school system is in any way favorable to boys. If you want to pick the “who is being prioritized” fight, you’ll get trounced. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/11 "2014-06-10T03:37:46Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I suspect boys are not similarly shamed for showing too much thigh, or that their showing of flesh is not criticized as distracting girls from being able to concentrate. And I suspect that if a 12 year old boy showed up to school dressed similarly to the girl in the article he would have been sent home and if it happened again he would be suspended. > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > The message at her school seems to be directed overwhelmingly at the girls, if you believe the author The author has an agenda. Why the fuck would I believe her? > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Scripted morning announcements at my daughter’s school include daily reminders, “to the young ladies,” about the importance of wearing appropriate attire." How frequently do the young men break the dress code? Don’t you think it’s possible that the messages are directed at the young ladies because they’re the ones constantly breaking the rules? > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Even if boys’ clothing rules are equally enforced and their show of skin equally forbidden, it still sends the message if only girls are reminded daily that the girls are the problem, girls distract boys, girls are disruptive, girls’ bodies are harmful to the atmosphere there. Do a general “reminder to our students” announcement. So they should white wash it so they don’t hurt the little girls feelings? And you know how they can get them to stop? They could follow the dress code. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/12 "2014-06-10T03:40:02Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > So? Girls violate the dress code more than boys. This is well known. It is? I didn’t know that. Never heard it before. Do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/13 "2014-06-10T03:51:48Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > How frequently do the young men break the dress code? Don’t you think it’s possible that the messages are directed at the young ladies because they’re the ones constantly breaking the rules? Right. It’s rather like penalties for fighting at school…probably more boys than girls receive such penalties (or at least, my school was like that), but that doesn’t mean the rule is sexist or singles out boys. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/14 "2014-06-10T03:58:12Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I doubt there are a ton of pre-teen males showing up to school wearing short-shorts. Can I request that no-one tries to post cites to debunk this? ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/15 "2014-06-10T04:30:22Z")
Eh. Back in the olden days when I was starting Junior High, mini skirts and micro minis were the style. Girls were NOT permitted to wear slacks or shorts. And this was common in most of the Jr and Sr High schools in the area. A fingertip length rule for minis was common. Look, nowadays, boys are probably not permitted to wear their pants under their boxers. Girls aren’t allowed to show too much thigh. Outside of phys ed type activities, neither are probably allowed to show midriffs. I don’t think these are outrageous rules. But I guess I’m just an old fart now. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/16 "2014-06-10T04:45:49Z")
There are two ways to have a dress code. The first is basically “This is a business casual environment and we expect you to conform to basic dress norms for an education setting.” The second is “Women have a responsibility to cover their flesh lest they tempt and distract.” The first one makes sense, and is the same logic that carries over to the workplace. The second is burka-lite. Having your body suddenly morph into that of an adult woman- and all the baggage that comes with that- is hard enough without your school reminding you that your very physical form is a danger to public peace. Schools should approach dress codes as being a matter of professionalism, not sex. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/17 "2014-06-10T05:38:26Z")
And if it is all gender neutral, Will a boy get in trouble for wearing code passing female clothes? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/18 "2014-06-10T05:43:23Z")
Two words: School uniforms. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/19 "2014-06-10T06:09:39Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > There are two ways to have a dress code. > > The first is basically “This is a business casual environment and we expect you to conform to basic dress norms for an education setting.” > > The second is “Women have a responsibility to cover their flesh lest they tempt and distract.” And I’d say the school’s policy is closer to the first. Sure, they use the word “distraction”, but without your poisoning the well, and distraction is one reason why business dress norms exist IMO. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > And if it is all gender neutral, Will a boy get in trouble for wearing code passing female clothes? No, depending on exactly what we mean by gender neutral here, it is not, but that doesn’t mean it is sexist or singles out women. At your local clothes store you will find separate men and women’s sections. The clothing styles are very different. It is not the school’s mission to try to change society on that. Boys coming to school dressed wearing girl-associated clothes and vice versa is a statement, and a distraction, and I have no issue with that being against their code. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450/20 "2014-06-10T08:56:14Z")
Meh. My school had no dress code whatsoever, and we somehow survived. Having a dress code at all is the problem. If you’d given me a dress code in those days I would’ve done anything to violate it. For the kids I worked with we approached it more as an ongoing conversation about dressing appropriately, than as rules. That means that you wear stuff that is clean and whole as much as trying not to combine short top, short skirt and low cut. Those were my guidelines for them: pick one of the three. But again, not a rule. If I thought they looked inappropriate for a certain event or place we would just talk about it. For the boys it was often wearing a t-shirt at all, or throwing away old torn clothes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-daughter-was-dress-coded-for-wearing-shorts/690450.md?page=2)