I am curious as to what constitutes ‘respect’ in your worldview. Is it thoughts, actions, some combination of the two? Because I think we fundamentally agree that no one deserves to be harassed for what they are wearing.
That said, administrators have to manage a lot of variables to keep the school running and instruction meaningful. A large part of this is maximizing resources and minimizing off-task time. To be fair, this is what most everyone else does, too. Hence we have codified rules in society. Are they subject to evolution? Of course. But the mere existence of a dress code is no sign of oppression. And no matter how lax the rule is, someone will want to push its boundaries.
Maybe I am old-school on this. I think rules should be fair. But once established that they are fair, I see no problem with vigorous, equitable enforcement.
Personally, I have no problem showing up to work on time. Does this mean that schools shouldn’t penalize students for being tardy to class?
Personally, I have no problem meeting deadlines. Does this mean that schools shouldn’t penalize students for late homework assignments?
Neither one of us have problems dressing appropriately for work. Does this mean schools shouldn’t institute policies concerning student attire?
Just because you didn’t need instruction in a certain subject doesn’t mean that *no one *does. Schools are responsible to all of their students. Not just the smart ones who can figure stuff out all on their own.
That’s clearly not the same thing. Deadlines and the beginning of class do not serve the purpose of teaching children what will be expected of them in a working environment, they are inherently necessary for school. Not so for the length of skirts, no matter how much perves complain that their inability to do well at maths is down to the distraction in front of them.
Kids need instruction. Lots and lots of helpful instruction. I said that in a post way back at the beginning of the thread. But that instruction does not need to be in the form of a set-in-stone dress code with punishment for offenders.
Where I worked that was in the form of an ongoing discussion of self-respect and respect for others. We were always talking about valuing yourself as a person and all that jazz. But set down a rule and you ask for it to be challenged, while the kid isn’t actually learning anything about the social aspect of dress because in the real world you will not be there to punish for showing leg.
Schools are well within their rights to establish and enforce dress codes. I think it’s appropriate for schools to have rules regarding attire the same way most workplaces and institutions have rules. We expect teachers and school officials to dress a certain way; expecting students to dress themselves according to a certain standard makes sense. Unless these standards are so stringent that they cause a lot of inconvenience or physical discomfort, I don’t see the big deal.
That said, I do think it’s silly and problematic to base standards on the potential any given garment has of causing a distraction. A lot of what goes into making something a distraction is our attitudes and assumptions, and some of these attitudes and assumptions come from weird, baggagey places. If a well-endowed girl wears a tank top, she might be trying to draw attention to herself (as she could with any piece of clothing), but she also might just as easily be wearing it because it’s 90 degrees outside and she thinks it looks cute with the rest of her outfit. By banning the tank top because boys might see it and lose their ability to concentrate on math, it sends the message that 1) a tank top is a sexualized garment solely intended to grab attention and 2) boys are so vulnerable to visual temptations that a mere tank top can serve as a barrier to their education. Neither are these things are true.
I don’t have a problem with forbidding tank tops, crop tops, short shorts, etc, as long as the rationale for doing so doesn’t promote the view that showing skin is equivalent to soliciting sexual attention and thus bad. Clothes should be worn so that they are not at risk of falling off and causing injury (severely sagging jeans could cause someone to fall), or revealing bare stomach, asses and genitalia (because seriously, who wants to sit where someone’s sweaty naked ass has sat), and clothes also should not be covered with obscenities or hate speech (because this creates a hostile work environment). Looking boobiliously distracting doesn’t really figure into it for me.
However, we have no reason to think that’s the case here. Dress code rules that also affect boys at this school have been mentioned.
Couldn’t disagree more. Fair is fair. You can’t say treating the genders equally really means treat them differently.
Yes, let me search through your posting history to find some random post and then work out what your point was for you.
I doubt anyone here is arguing let’s not respect women.
What I’m saying to you is that your point is all over the place. You’re saying we should be supportive of whatever people want to wear but have also agreed that there are examples of outfits that would not be acceptable to wear to a school (but may be “in the distant future”).
So, yeah, I support Dangerosa’s daughter’s freedom to wear what she wants. But I also accept her school’s freedom to set a dress code, provided the code is reasonable (which it is). Where the freedoms conflict, sorry, you have to abide by the rules of the institution you want to be a part of.
Apparently this New York Times blogger is reading the SDMB. At least, the timing is suspicious. But the article makes many points similar to those made here, and I enjoyed reading it.