# My Employer's Idea of Maternity Leave **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 14, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003 "2004-04-14T17:50:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/181 "2004-04-20T14:38:24Z")
> [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](#): > > You’re not adequately informed about the issue to argue this, and we’re dragging out a long thread even longer. I’m afraid you need to accept that while your opinions about how fair “leave” are yours to put forth and promote as you will, you’re underinformed and therefore wrong about the breastfeeding FACTS and their role in “maternity leave” policies. No, it’s not that I am uninformed, it’s that I don’t agree with your _view._ I have done a ton of reading about this subject, as a result of several threads on this board, and as part of research on legislation I mentioned earlier. And just out of a general curiosity and interest on the topic. I am all about women empowering themselves, and this whole “you have to nurse your baby or your a bad mother” movement sets women back. The invention of today’s formulas allows women to continue to live her lives while having a baby, and people on your breastfeeding bandwagon pressure women to suffer pain and inconvenience because they are led to believe they are a bad mother if they can’t or don’t want to breastfeed. And in my opinion, there is this “high-and-mighty” attitude coming from these breastfeeding crusaders, like they are just mother of the century because they can tolerate a baby sucking on their milk dispensers, and that the world would end if they had to go back to work and weren’t available to breastfeed 24/7. Choosing to become a parent involves many compromises. For most American women, they have to decide between paying the bills and using formula sometimes, or breastfeeding while the phone rings off the hook with bill collectors calling. Thank goodness women have the choice with the advent of quality and health formulas. I think this has gone a long way to liberating women from having to stay home. There still exists a 1950s mentality in this day and age, and these old-fashioned attitudes continue to perpetuate it. Anyway, like I said before, this is not a breastfeeding thread, so sorry if I went off on a tangent. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/182 "2004-04-20T14:43:40Z")
> [@belladonna](#): > > Well hoo-bully for you. Ever consider that other women consider time spent bonding and nurturing a child as the best possible use of their education and experience? And the best possible way to support them? I can’t imagine describing the time I spend with my kids as a “waste”, and if that’s the way you feel then it’s a damn good thing you don’t plan to have any. Well if you are rich enough to be able to afford to do this, then that is wonderful. I hope I can afford that someday… > [@belladonna](#): > > Not to mention costs involved in formula, you self-righteous twit… I COULDN’T FUCKING AFFORD TO BOTTLE FEED. I doubt very much that I’m alone in that. Are you going to pay for the formula for every baby of a working mother so that we can all conform to your precious standard? Jesus christ, stop while you’re ahead. Your ignorance is showing and, frankly, it’s embarrassing. Well, look, if you can’t afford children, don’t have them. Having children when you can’t afford all the costs involved is irresponsible. And that isn’t an “ignorant” view, it is the mature and responsible view. And most states have WIC programs that pay a majority of the costs of infant formula for families who can’t afford it. I wish you could have taken advantage of that. Oh and namecalling isn’t going to help matters any. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/183 "2004-04-20T14:44:44Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > I would rather go back to work and make money so I could support the kid in the best way possible than stay at home and be a human milk dispenser while my experience and education and money making ability goes to waste. See, and there are many women who would rather stay home and feed their kids their own breast milk from its original container and have some newborn bonding time than go back to work while their time with their newborn and chance to see his first smile and hear him laugh and watch his first steps and hear his first words go to waste. I’m not saying either of us is unilaterally right or wrong. However, by your choice of words, you’re being easily as insulting to mothers (or fathers) who stay home, as some of them are to mothers (or fathers) who go right back to work. I do sincerely hope that when/if you have kids, enjoying their lives becomes more important to you than “wasting [your] money-making ability.” If it doesn’t…why the hell have them? I’m not saying women who go back to work after birth think their kids are less important than I do. I’m hoping that women who feel that kids might infringe on their “money-making ability” have different priorities after their kids are born. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/184 "2004-04-20T14:52:25Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > Well if you are rich enough to be able to afford to do this, then that is wonderful. I hope I can afford that someday… I’m not rich enough, which is why I took full advantage of the maternity leave time available under the FMLA. > [@](#): > > Well, look, if you can’t afford children, don’t have them. Having children when you can’t afford all the costs involved is irresponsible. Why should formula be considered an “involved cost” for someone who plans to breastfeed? > [@](#): > > Oh and namecalling isn’t going to help matters any. I seem to recall you starting the name calling with your “human milk dispenser” comment. But thanks for the patronizing tone, it was good for a giggle. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/185 "2004-04-20T15:22:04Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > Why should I have to lend any sort of hand because you decided to reproduce? > [@](#): > > And most states have WIC programs that pay a majority of the costs of infant formula for families who can’t afford it. I wish you could have taken advantage of that. I’d just like to note that WIC is paid for with federal and state grants…which come out of taxes. I have to assume that you really DON’T mind lending a hand, since you advocate use of the WIC program. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/186 "2004-04-20T16:28:51Z")
Quote: Originally Posted by CanvasShoes Everything one does in life is going to inconvenience someone else in some way. Even if it’s just going to the grocery store. > [@](#): > > But then you say: > > Quote: > Originally Posted by CanvasShoes > Again, if a woman’s maternity leave (whether she’s paid or unpaid) doesn’t take money out of YOUR paycheck, or add work to YOUR desk, or hours to YOUR week. What the hell difference does it make why a person is absent? How childish can you get? It’s between them and the boss. > Like your first quote addresses, EVERYTHING one does in life is going to inconvenience someone. By your own standard, this will inconvenience SOMEONE in the company’s employ. My statement regarding “everything inconveniences someone…” was in direct reply to the silly claims that supposedly working mothers here in this thread are complaining that motherhood/breastfeeding/maternity leave is “too hard” so why should they do it since it ALL inconveniences “normal” working people so much. My point was that everyone inconveniences everyone else all the time, so that mentality, that it’s (working motherhood, and all it entails), wrong because what goes along with it “inconVEEENiences” people is ridiculous. We inconvenience others merely by going about our daily jobs. Hell, we take up someone’s parking spot if we “beat them through the light and get over just right” so that we can then get the closer parking spot. We inconvenience someone by walking in front of them in the hall. We 'inconvenience" someone when we have to have them drop what they are doing and work on a different client. LIFE is just one big inconvenience. > [@](#): > > Personally, I’m not saying women don’t have a right to their DISABILITY PAY for having a baby. If your employer offers it, ANY disability situation should be paid. Do I think people need a YEAR off paid for having a baby like they do in some countries? Hellllll no, and I’m an RN so people can spare me the development issues, etc. I’m aware. I’m off track in this post, because my issue IS NOT with disability leave for HAVING the baby, mine is with people who expect special treatment for things like vacation time, not working holidays, or getting extra sick days because they have children. Just as you experienced the doctors who golf on Wednesday, I can’t tell you how many people I have worked with who think their offspring give them a ticket to sainthood and a get out of work free card. I see no one in this thread who has made any claims to sainthood, or special treatment. What I, and others HAVE seen, is bitterness and disagreement with the normally established maternity and leave for working mom’s. If their beef is iwth people who abuse leave policies, then THAT would be another rant. And one which should include ALL such offenders (as my afore mentioned golfers etc), not just working moms. [quote] then we go on to: Quote: Originally Posted by CanvasShoes IF, however, there are attempts to shift a person’s work (for WHATEVER reason he/she is gone too much), to your desk, or onto YOUR weekly hours and especially without compensation. Then THAT, my dears is YOUR fault if you take it, refuse to stand up for your rights as a worker, and shift the blame to “working mothers and maternity leave”. > [@](#): > > Come again? I work with a woman who calls out a lot. When she calls out, she usually states that her children are sick. I guess I should tell patients “Sorry, you’ll have to sit here and wait because Susie called out and I’m not about to let her shift her work on to me. That would be MY fault if I allow that to happen. I’m standing up for my rights as a worker, sorry you got the shit end of it though.” Do you make the schedules? Do the hiring and firing? Then it WOULD be your fault if you don’t fire a person who won’t perform. Otherwise, since it’s impossible to do two patients at one time, I don’t see how you can bend the laws of physics and create more time for a 15 minute, or half an hour (whatever the increments for patients are), so that you actually are forced to double the patient load within the time specified. If you do not “stand up for yourself” to your bosses, or by choosing another office, if this one is THAT poorly run, then yes. the onus is on you. For it it STILL that that ONE person is creating the inconvenience to which you are forcred to react. Not “working moms”. If you schedule less time for each patient in order to handle her load, again, that is YOUR choice. And yes, just as in any other job where a person handling a certain job is gone, you may very well have to reschedule patients and say just that “I’m sorry, but the person who was to do your appointment is unable to be here, we have to reschedule”. Why is this so unreasonable? I’ve had Doctor’s offices do that to me. And I didn’t implode. Again, THAT is just part of life. Stuff happens. > [@](#): > > Sorry, but I work in the real world. The real world where I have a job to do, bills to pay, and patients in trauma situations that don’t give me the luxury to stand up to “the man” and put my nose in another worker’s issue. Even when I worked in offices while I was in college, I learned quickly that someone who calls out frequently is NONE of my business and bitching and whining (even in a calm, constructive fashion) is a sure way to get the old “This is between the company and them, and none of your business.” Saying “I’m sorry Mr Bossman, Susie called off again and I’m tired of her doing it so I can’t allow myself to be used by finishing her share.” will get me a fast ticket to the unemployment line. Requiring fair and equitable treatment from your employer is not “putting your nose in the other worker’s business”. If you are, in fact, doing far more than your fair share of work and stress, that is very much your business. And you have every right to seek other work and/or bring it to your bosses’ attention. If your job is SOOOOOO hard, and has SOOOOO many hassles, perhaps it’s not the right job for you. OR, maybe it’s what most of us in the thread have been saying all along. It’s THAT one woman, (coupled with your inability, or refusal to address the issue at your place of employment), who is the asshole, NOT “working moms”. With your statements above, you are attempting to claim that YOUR job is so special, and so important and vital, that it couldn’t possibly fall under the same conditions as other people’s jobs. That is, that there ARE policies and procedures in place for problem employees. Such as the chronically late and absent. Sorry, I’m not buying it. I too have worked in emergency call-out situations. One of our projects was as back up support for police agencies at clandestine drug lab busts. If we were “on-call” for our “week on”, we had our ready bag packed, and even if it were 3am, we were at the site within the contract specified time. If you weren’t, you got booted off of that project (which no one wanted to do, since it was fun and interesting). Period. I’ve been out in the workforce for over 30 years. And as I’ve said, in all sorts of jobs. I’ve rarely seen chronic policy abusers last long. And I’ve seen even less that other employees tolerated policy abusers. If you don’t stand up for your OWN rights, no one else will. But if you choose not to, and stand behind your “but MY job is different, and so much more important than anyone else’s, so I can’t possibly do that”. Again, fine. But it’s still YOUR choice. And really, as such, has no bearing on what “working moms” do, by and large. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/187 "2004-04-20T17:31:08Z")
> [@Hamadryad](#): > > I’d just like to note that WIC is paid for with federal and state grants…which come out of taxes. I have to assume that you really DON’T mind lending a hand, since you advocate use of the WIC program. Not necessarily. Am I happy that my hard-earned tax dollars go to pay for people who choose to reproduce when they cannot afford to adequately care for the offspring? NO. Am I happy that the burden is being passed onto me for a choice I didn’t make and do not condone? NO. Do you know that many states spend as much as one-quarter of their entire budget on Medicaid? Guess who the vast majority of Medicaid recipients are? Single poor women with children. Why are these women choosing to have children when they are 1) poor and 2) single? Guess who pays for their prenatal care, the childbirth and care for the mother and infant after birth? We all do. It makes me mad and sad at the same time. I would rather my tax dollars go to buying these women birth control rather than pay for their kids. They get Medicaid, housing vouchers, food stamps, WIC, welfare, etc., because they irresponsibly chose to have a child, and the responsible workforce has to foot the bill. Why is this happening? Birth control is usually free to those who cannot afford it at your local Planned Parenthood. I’m sorry, but I don’t think the thousands of women on welfare are the 1% of women for whom birth control fails, so don’t try to say, “well some pregnancies are unintentional.” Well when you’re spreading your legs, you should be well aware what sex is for and what can happen when you have it. This problem is a really serious burden to our society. I see it every day at work, when I study all the states’ budgets and how they are struggling and cutting other services because their Medicaid bills are out of control and growing larger every month. This may not be something you hear about every day, but I see the numbers every day, I see the state budget bills slashing programs because Medicaid and other welfare programs are eating up their budgets. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/188 "2004-04-20T17:41:23Z")
> [@belladonna](#): > > Why should formula be considered an “involved cost” for someone who plans to breastfeed? I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I know that plans to breastfeed gang aft agley. So, what would you do if you couldn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/189 "2004-04-20T17:50:59Z")
> [@belladonna](#): > > Why should formula be considered an “involved cost” for someone who plans to breastfeed? > [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I know that plans to breastfeed gang aft agley. So, what would you do if you couldn’t? I think what you’re trying to say is, as many have pointed out here, sometimes women cannot breastfeed or have a lot of problems doing so. So if this were the case, **belladonna** , what did you plan to do? If you didn’t plan on the possible expense of a contingent food supply, then theoretically, your baby could have starved. Also, if you couldn’t afford formula, then how did you intend on feeding the child once they started eating solid food? Isn’t 17 years of solid food considered an “involved cost” of having a child? ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/190 "2004-04-20T17:55:02Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I know that plans to breastfeed gang aft agley. So, what would you do if you couldn’t? Well, I did have problems (due to my own health and medications I was on at the time) nursing my first son and so I received formula coupons for him through WIC. The second baby nursed until 8 months and is now on formula, but thankfully an 8 month old goes through a lot less formula than a newborn. I’m able to afford the $25 a week now, as opposed to the $75–100 it would have cost me when he was younger. If I’d had problems again this time around I don’t know what I would have done. I wouldn’t qualify for WIC anymore, and that gave me a big incentive to work through the BF problems and go as long as I could. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/191 "2004-04-20T18:04:05Z")
> [@belladonna](#): > > I COULDN’T FUCKING AFFORD TO BOTTLE FEED. I doubt very much that I’m alone in that. Are you going to pay for the formula for every baby of a working mother so that we can all conform to your precious standard? > [@belladonna](#): > > Well, I did have problems (due to my own health and medications I was on at the time) nursing my first son and so I received formula coupons for him through WIC. Hmmm, well it looks like I DID help pay for the formula for your baby then, didn’t I? Oh and it seems that if a mother is working, she would be more able to afford the formula, and wouldn’t need WIC’s help. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/192 "2004-04-20T18:15:17Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > Not necessarily. Am I happy that my hard-earned tax dollars go to pay for people who choose to reproduce when they cannot afford to adequately care for the offspring? NO. Am I happy that the burden is being passed onto me for a choice I didn’t make and do not condone? NO. Right. I was just pointing out that you didn’t think you should have to help people with their offspring, yet advocated WIC. Which, apparently, you don’t. You seem really hostile on the topic of women with small children. It looks as if you work with some organization involving welfare benefits of some kind, and I think it has colored the way you look at all women with small children. I had no insurance when any of my kids were born. Medicaid covered two; we paid for the other in installments. I was on WIC for the first two. So…I’m a college dropout housewife with three kids who could only afford to have them because of state and federal programs. From what I’ve read, you are unlikely to read anything I have to say with any but a jaundiced eye. I find your insistance that (basically) no one without a really good income AND fantastic insurance should ever have children appalling. I’m not going to convince you that people like me deserve to have children, and you’re not going to convince me that having a good income is worth not spending time with my kids. There’s an old chestnut that “No one ever said, on his deathbed, ‘I wish I’d spent more time in the office.’” I’m really glad that I have my kids, and I’m really grateful for the time I have gotten to spend with them as they’ve grown. I sincerely hope that if you ever have kids, you will give them at least as much attention as you do your job. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/193 "2004-04-20T18:26:00Z")
> [@](#): > > **jarbabyj** said: > What, no refutation of the breast feeding/six week leave facts we gave you? No admitting you’re wrong on that point? You have no rebuttal so you dig for some other issue? I seem to remember stating that the amount of time someone should be off for short-term disability is the amount of time that they are medically required to be off. So, for example, when my sister had surgery her doctor required her to take ten days off of work in order for her internal organs to heal so that she could do things like drive a car, stand on her feet, go to work. If you are under doctor’s orders to not go to work, then you’re not going to be there. What I have said is that if your company has a policy stating that X weeks will be paid at Y% of your salary for the time you are out on short-term disability, then you shouldn’t get double or triple X weeks paid time off if your ‘short-term disability’ is having a kid. So, if short-term disability kicks in after two weeks, and it lasts for four weeks after that, don’t complain if you don’t show up for work for another six weeks after your disability peroid ends and you didn’t get paid for weeks six to twelve. Whether you broke your leg, had your colon rewired, or had a baby, the short-term disability terms and conditions should be the same. I also don’t think that (especially in my field, where it’s vitally important to keep working in order to stay on top of new technology) that if you take a year off for whatever reason that you should expect to walk back into the exact same job you had before you left, still have accumulated seniority, and have gotten the same project bonuses the group you used to be in (but weren’t for a year) got because _they_ got the product out on time and under budget. Yes, it chaps my ass if someone who was off for weeks for whatever reason walks back into work the day of rollout and gets the same credit for the project as those of us who poured our hours into it have, but I’m going to be honest - the most common reason someone at the companies I’ve worked for has been out of office for more than a week has been kid related. It’s the old adage that you cannot expect to eat your cake and have it too. > [@](#): > > **belladonna** said: > Why should formula be considered an “involved cost” for someone who plans to breastfeed? Because a kid is an extremely unpredicatble thing and you really have no idea whether or not you will be able to, so the responsible thing to do is plan for the worst case scenario. That way _if it happens_ you’ve already got a game plan for dealing with the problem instead of scrabbling with your thumb up your ass wondering if you buy formula or pay the water bill? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/194 "2004-04-20T18:43:05Z")
> [@Hamadryad](#): > > You seem really hostile on the topic of women with small children. It looks as if you work with some organization involving welfare benefits of some kind, and I think it has colored the way you look at all women with small children. > > I had no insurance when any of my kids were born. Medicaid covered two; we paid for the other in installments. I was on WIC for the first two. > > So…I’m a college dropout housewife with three kids who could only afford to have them because of state and federal programs… Well I wouldn’t say I am hostile, but I am very concerned. I do state legislative and regulatory research focused on health care issues. Every day I delve deep into the world of state budgets and how expensive state services are (Medicaid being the most expensive) and how many state programs are being cut because of the ballooning costs of health care for people without health insurance. It’s either cut programs or raise taxes, because the problem keeps growing and growing. It is a very serious problem and affects us all. I am sure you are a wonderful person who deserves to have children and happiness. But it seems to me like you made the decision to bring children into the world without the proper preparation, to the detriment of your state’s Medicaid budget. I am not trying to be mean, but I am honestly curious: why on Earth would you decide to have three kids without any health insurance?!?! It is enough to boggle the mind! In my opinion, it seems that many women just expect or feel entitled to be able to have the state taxpayers pick up the tab for their pregnancy, birth and the feeding of their children. It seems more and more women are feeling so entitled, because the Medicaid rolls are bursting! Medicaid and education are the two biggest state expenses, hands down, far above infrastructure, law enforcement or social programs. Why didn’t you wait until you were insured before having children? It’s not like your biological clock is running out or anything, you’re young. Why couldn’t you have finished college and gotten a job with insurance, or your husband gotten a job with insurance before deciding to have the kids? In summary, it has nothing to do with women with small children. It has to do with people who chose to do something that is expensive and expect their fellow citizens to pick up the tab for them. It buts a big strain and burden on society, but it seems these people don’t realize that; they’re just thinking about themselves. Yeah _that_ makes me feel a little hostile. A solution would be to mandate that all employers offer health insurance. I highly advocate this Another thing that needs to be done is to force greedy pharmaceutical companies to lower the cost of their drugs, so Medicaid wouldn’t cost so much. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/195 "2004-04-20T19:06:23Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > Hmmm, well it looks like I DID help pay for the formula for your baby then, didn’t I? And so…? Does that means you get to dictate that every working mother shouldn’t nurse? I’m not trying to be a smartass, I’m just really unsure as to what your point is here. > [@](#): > > Oh and it seems that if a mother is working, she would be more able to afford the formula, and wouldn’t need WIC’s help. Again, what’s your point here, other than to backhandedly suggest that I’m a mooch who received help I didn’t need? Obviously I wasn’t “more than able” to afford the formula or else I wouldn’t have gone to WIC for help. Not to mention that I \*wasn’t \* working for the first 9 weeks after birth, and so I had zero income at that time. Right now, I’m just scraping by paycheck to paycheck and I work 45 hours a week at a semi-decent job. A mother working in a minimum wage job or even a low-level desk job would likely have a huge problem affording formula on her own—all the more reason to encourage breastfeeding, eh? As to the “don’t have 'em if you can’t pay for 'em” argument–I agree with you, up to a point. In a perfect world children would only be born into loving, happy families that have more than enough financial resources to care for them. However, we don’t live in a perfect world. I’ve got the loving part down pat, but due to personal circumstances I struggled a bit with the financial aspects the first time around. Some people start out with good prospects and then their lives go to hell. Then again, some people can throw all the money in the world at their kids, but can’t be bothered to sit down and play blocks with them. Money isn’t the be-all, end-all when it comes to being a good parent. Our government has chosen to establish social services for the benefit of our entire population. Do you also bitch about people who have kids in public schools? By your logic, shouldn’t they have saved up for private educations from the very start? ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/196 "2004-04-20T19:12:12Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > But it seems to me like you made the decision to bring children into the world without the proper preparation, to the detriment of your state’s Medicaid budget. I am not trying to be mean, but I am honestly curious: why on Earth would you decide to have three kids without any health insurance?!?! Welp, you got me there…I didn’t make a detailed plan for having kids. Sorry for having been a drain on the taxpayers. Well, look on the bright side: I don’t work, so we don’t need daycare, so we’re not allowed to take a deduction for that, so we’re paying more taxes than many two-person income families. Make you feel any better? Probably not, but I can’t refute you on this. I prefer to think of them as “my gorgeous kids,” rather than “someone else’s tax burden,” but whatever floats your boat. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/197 "2004-04-20T19:15:53Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > I seem to remember stating that the amount of time someone should be off for short-term disability is the amount of time that they are medically required to be off. Don’t forget the part where you insisted that six weeks were not recommended by doctors and that you’d never heard of such a thing. No reply for the mothers who refuted you? > [@](#): > > . > > I also don’t think that (especially in my field, where it’s vitally important to keep working in order to stay on top of new technology) that if you take a year off for whatever reason that you should expect to walk back into the exact same job you had before you left, still have accumulated seniority, and have gotten the same project bonuses the group you used to be in (but weren’t for a year) got because _they_ got the product out on time and under budget. Cut and paste ONE PERSON IN THIS THREAD who suggested maternity leave OR short term disability should be a year long. Just one. ONE! I beg you. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/198 "2004-04-20T19:37:08Z")
It is not merely “my view” that breastfeeding is worth promoting. Here’s the AAP: [http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics%3B100/6/1035](http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics%3b100/6/1035) It is not “my view” that let down takes awhile to be established, nor is it “my view” that mothers who are away from their infants may have difficulties with let-down and expression (see “problems with let-down”) [http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/pa/pa\_syntocin\_hhg.htm](http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/pa/pa_syntocin_hhg.htm) It is not “my view” that breastfeeding can take a while to establish. Insert any source on breastfeeding here. All I have said, basically, is that it’s a good thing when leave policies are (among other things) of sufficient duration to allow a nursing mother to establish a good breastfeeding relationship. If in the course of your research, you found sources that said other than the things I’ve stated above, then your sources were flawed. It is not true that most women and babies get the hang of breastfeeding immediately. It is not true that most women can pump their milk just as successfully as they can nurse, and it is therefore not true that there is little or no effect on breastfeeding if maternity leave is shortened. I don’t understand the connection between supporting maternity leave (which, among other things, enables women who choose breastfeeding to have a higher chance of success) and having a “harmful emphasis” on breastfeeding. Frankly, I think it is a straw man. I am very well familiar with the “You have to nurse your baby or your [sic] a bad mother” movement. It troubles me as well, because why I think you’re exaggerating a bit, it is certainly true that there are breastfeeding advocates so passionate about the cause that they’ve made some women feel guilty about choosing or needing to use formula. However, it has little to do with this topic or the points I have made. You are also wrong to suggest I am a part of it. Let me repeat this: Promoting leave policies which (among other things) make breastfeeding a more viable and successful option for families who choose to breastfeed is not the same as “pressuring women to suffer pain and inconvenience because they are led to believe they are a bad mother if they can’t or don’t want to breastfeed.” That is paranoid and irrational. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/199 "2004-04-20T19:46:50Z")
> [@](#): > > =nyctea scandiaca] > The point is, I am sick of people making it out like your kid is going to die or suffer greatly if they are sucking on a rubber nipple instead of your own. I would rather go back to work and make money so I could support the kid in the best way possible than stay at home and be a human milk dispenser while my experience and education and money making ability goes to waste. Now you’re just scraping the bottom of the barrel in your bid to find reasons to diss working moms. NO one in this thread has at all even HINTED that “the kid is going to suffer and die” if not breastfed. A question was posed regarding reasons for longer than 6 weeks of maternity leave. Breastfeeding was one reason. Period. No, “OMG, the poor darling will die if he doesn’t get breastfed”. No, “breastfeeding vs. formula” digs. Nothing, a mere answer to one question. Could you get any more irrational? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003/200 "2004-04-20T20:03:27Z")
One wonders if some people here would rather moms be like **I\_Dig\_Bad\_Boys** : wanting to go back to work a week after she “pops the damn kid out!” My mother got WIC vouchers for my sister-Sis was either lactose intolerant or allergic to milk, and most formulas to boot. She ended up having to go on some special, prescription-only formula (oh gods, I remember how bad that stuff STANK!), and Mom was able to get WIC for it. Who knows? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-employers-idea-of-maternity-leave/240003.md?page=11)