# My Favorite Ghost Story-Debunked! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 14, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684 "2013-04-14T15:31:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/1 "2013-04-14T15:31:17Z")
For many years, I thought that the Ft. Warren “Woman In Black” ghost story was true. Alas, a recent investigation fails to reveal any historical basis for the story: > **[Fort Warren’s “Lady in Black”…Debunked](https://historicaldigression.com/2012/10/17/fort-warrens-lady-in-black-debunked/)** > > It’s the season for ghost stories. One of Boston’s most popular is that of the “Lady in Black” who allegedly haunts Fort Warren in Boston Harbor. It has been told and retold… This story was mentioned by Boston historian Edward Rowe Snow in 1947. Every time I have visited Fort Warren, people there talk about it as fact-I was told the story by my teacher in 3rd grade. My question: did Snow make the whole thing up? Or was there an earlier story that he modified/changed to make it more realistic? ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/2 "2013-04-14T15:52:48Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > For many years, I thought that the Ft. Warren “Woman In Black” ghost story was true. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/3 "2013-04-14T16:05:12Z")
Edward Rose Snow was a folklorist as well as a historian. Whether he made up the Lady In Black story or if it was based on a truth is entirely conjectural. Maybe it is based on a now long-lost true event, but we’ll never know that for certain. OTOH maybe Snow did make it up. I don’t thinking that, though, because he published a ton of similar legends about Boston Harbor and the islands, and I’d like to think that there is a shred of truth in at least a few of them. As a historian, he would have had a natural inclination to ferret out such tales. As a folklorist, he certainly would have had the natural inclination to embellish upon them. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/4 "2013-04-14T16:31:03Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > As a folklorist, he certainly would have had the natural inclination to embellish upon them. Folklorists aren’t expected to embellish. A folklorist Worth his salt would report what he learns, like any scholar, not make up stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/5 "2013-04-14T18:55:35Z")
Let me debunk all your other ghost stories too: ghosts do not exist. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/6 "2013-04-14T19:05:20Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Let me debunk all your other ghost stories too: ghosts do not exist. No spoiler box!?!? Come on, man, thanks for ruining it for the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/7 "2013-04-14T19:13:55Z")
E.R. Snow was an entertaining writer, but most of his stuff was just copied from historical records. He did a fair amount of travel around Boston harbor, and talked to a lot of people. But his other big story (the small treasure he found in Chatham-based upon a code found in an old book on Calf island) is likely a fabrication as well. he did write an impressive number of books-and lectured extensively (I did attend one). But he probably made a lot of stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/8 "2013-04-14T20:55:13Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Folklorists aren’t expected to embellish. A folklorist Worth his salt would report what he learns, like any scholar, not make up stuff. True, but there’s always the possibility that, if the folk story can’t be authenticated by means other than the person telling it, it stand to reason the person telling it can embellish much of it. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/9 "2013-04-14T20:59:11Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > E.R. Snow was an entertaining writer, but most of his stuff was just copied from historical records. He did a fair amount of travel around Boston harbor, and talked to a lot of people. But his other big story (the small treasure he found in Chatham-based upon a code found in an old book on Calf island) is likely a fabrication as well. he did write an impressive number of books-and lectured extensively (I did attend one). But he probably made a lot of stuff up. IIRC he also led tours around the Boston Harbor Islands (I remember seeing old photos of him doing such at Georges). It would stand to reason that he’d embellish a folk tale for the sake of being entertaining…or perhaps fabricate one. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/10 "2013-04-16T04:04:39Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > True, but there’s always the possibility that, if the folk story can’t be authenticated by means other than the person telling it, it stand to reason the person telling it can embellish much of it. Of course, he can. And an anthropologist could do the same in his own field. I just wanted to point out that being a “folklorist” doesn’t mean that you’re making stuff up. It’s a perfectly valid field of study. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/11 "2013-04-16T05:49:30Z")
Not debunked, exactly, but a local ghost story got explained. For years, all the high school kids knew about “The White Lady of Pamo Valley.” It was a big deal to go out into the canyons and creek-beds, and park at night, and drink (of course) and dare each other to walk under the trees. But I was chatting with one of the older residents of the area, and he said, “Oh, that’s old Mrs. S\_\_\_\_\_. Crashed her car and died, back in '56. I was there when they hauled her out.” So, at least the story is based on something real… ---
**Author:** ![Moonchild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Moonchild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonchild)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/12 "2013-04-17T03:20:41Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Let me debunk all your other ghost stories too: ghosts do not exist. Especially on SDMB. [Oh, wait](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=255138&highlight=ghost). [And Here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s&threadid=117855) [And here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=179512&highlight=ghost). So thank you for your supreme knowledge of all things. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/13 "2013-04-17T03:41:34Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Not debunked, exactly, but a local ghost story got explained. For years, all the high school kids knew about “The White Lady of Pamo Valley.” It was a big deal to go out into the canyons and creek-beds, and park at night, and drink (of course) and dare each other to walk under the trees. > > But I was chatting with one of the older residents of the area, and he said, “Oh, that’s old Mrs. S\_\_\_\_\_. Crashed her car and died, back in '56. I was there when they hauled her out.” So, at least the story is based on something real… Your story lacks any kind of context that would make it interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/14 "2013-04-17T04:34:27Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Your story lacks any kind of context that would make it interesting. ??? A dark valley, a ghost, high school kids necking, and an old geezer who remembers the events that may have led to it… It’s all right out of Scooby Doo! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/15 "2013-04-17T13:36:06Z")
> [@Moonchild](#): > > Especially on SDMB. [Oh, wait](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=255138&highlight=ghost). [And Here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s&threadid=117855) [And here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=179512&highlight=ghost). > > So thank you for your supreme knowledge of all things. :rolleyes: I’m sorry, was that supposed to prove something? Still no ghosts. But hobgoblins are real. Nasty buggers they are. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/16 "2013-04-17T14:40:03Z")
> [@Moonchild](#): > > Especially on SDMB. [Oh, wait](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=255138&highlight=ghost). [And Here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s&threadid=117855) [And here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=179512&highlight=ghost). > > So thank you for your supreme knowledge of all things. :rolleyes: You have proven that some people believe in ghosts. This was not in question. It is also a million miles away from proving that ghosts actually exist. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/17 "2013-04-17T14:46:15Z")
Hmmmmmmmmmmm… nope not surprised. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/18 "2013-04-18T11:21:08Z")
Well, I picked up a copy of the 1947 book where Snow relates the tale. The subsequent “appearances” of the Lady in Black all took place long after the “supposed event”. One part of the story relates to a sentry who saw the “lady” (in the dark, of course). Fort Warren is an interesting place to visit, but since the names of the supposed lady and her husband were given, it should have been easy to validate the story-the US Army kept excellent records. The story does seem to have some common links with the execution of Mary Suerat (mother of one of the Lincoln assassination group). By 1947, there would be almost nobody alive who had been at Fort Warren in 1863-65, so Snow could have passed off a story like this easily. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-favorite-ghost-story-debunked/655684/19 "2013-04-18T11:45:11Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The story does seem to have some common links with the execution of Mary Suerat (mother of one of the Lincoln assassination group). By 1947, there would be almost nobody alive who had been at Fort Warren in 1863-65, so Snow could have passed off a story like this easily. See, that’s the point I was trying to (awkwardly) make upthread: Snow was a folklorist/historian, and since he gave lectures, it would have been very easy for him to embellish a tale because there would be nobody alive to contradict him. Nevertheless, I do enjoy his tales. A few summers ago I took out not just the Boston Bay book but a couple of others he’d written. I live very fairly close to the general harbor area, so I’d go down to the beach every so often with one of the books. I’d read it, then gaze up at the horizon and the dots of the islands and wonder…