# My fellow blacks: You are not Native American **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 3, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889 "2008-09-03T16:56:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/141 "2011-04-17T14:50:00Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Yeah. When embracing and celebrating one’s history and culture, it is traditional to kinda focus in on the good parts. > > Listen, I appreciate how foreward thinking you are, I really do, but in my opinion, one of the joys in life is acknowledging all of the beauty of all of the cultures of the world. I suspect a lot of these folks don’t see the beauty of black and African culture because this society hasn’t glorified it, as it has with the Native Americans. > > And for the record, I am not expecting black folks with a “full blooded Cherokee Indian Grandmother” to deny that aspect of their heritage; I am saying I believe 99% of these folks to be either lying or flat out wrong. Thank you for this thread. I thought it was me. I’m white, of the Heinz 57 variety----basically a mutt. But I was married to an AA woman for 17ish years, and so have an extended family by law that is black, live in a predominantly black neighborhood, attend a largely black church etc etc. I come from a large family and some of my siblings married AAs. As banal as it sounds, ‘some of my best friends are black…’ You get the picture. I have an _extensive_ history in interracial and AA settings and relationships. Yet a stunning amount of these friends/relatives claim Indian ancestry. In fact, I can’t remember any of them _ **not** _ claiming Indian ancestry. And it’s always the “cool” Indians; Blackfeet, or Cherokee-----never a “Winnebago.” It irritates me for some reason. It is so pervasive that I dare not bring it up because in every instance I’ve heard, “My great grandmother was a Cherokee…” And I don’t believe any of my friends were lying. I just think it is a popular family folklore that is taken as truth. But it seems to me inconceivable that Indians and Blacks commingled as much as this suggests. As a side note I was discussing this with a friend that is a white, half-Jewish woman and…you guessed it, she is part Indian. So maybe we’re all part Indian. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/142 "2011-04-17T15:02:47Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > Now, seen the White American population at random, it is **OBVIOUS** , many have Native blood in them. And if it is not Indian, perhaps it is Mongol blood through Germans or Russians, but the Asiatic faces are there. Quite true. I get asked once in awhile, but anything Asiatic about me came from… wait for it… _Asia_ and my Russian ancestors who were quite aware of their Mongol influence. > [@](#): > > So, who are you trying to fool with the so called Cherokee-Princess myth? I suspect in many cases a person is parroting what they were told as a child without giving it thought. > [@](#): > > Blacks had less chance to mix with Amerindians than Whites simply because they weren’t free. It was the frontiermen, particularly the skin traders, who mixed the most. So, when I would expect that when Blacks have Amerindian blood usually they also have European blood at the same time. Not exactly true - it certainly wasn’t unknown for escaped Africans to run off and live with the Natives (I believe that accounted for most of the black Seminoles). Other tribes bought, sold, owned, and worked African-origin slaves every bit as much as the whites did - at one time one of the largest southern plantations was owned by Cherokee. Even among slaves, there were some immersed among the Natives rather than the whites. The relationship between full blood Natives and the mixed are pretty tumultuous at times, regardless of what the mix is - European, African, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/143 "2011-04-17T15:14:50Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Yes. Yes, that is my beef. Maybe it wouldn’t bother me if I believed that even one NA person had ever in their lives bragged, " I have lots of black in my family! My great grandmother is a full blooded black!" > > But I must admit, I don’t know any NAs. Maybe they go around saying that all the time. > > I wish I could believe that the people I know that brag about NA ancestry were doing so out of just natural pride in their heritage. But I think it has much more to do with the fact that they just don’t have pride in their own blackness. And that breaks my heart, because my grandma and grandpa were not only cool cats, but were also full of all kinds of rich culture and great pride, and all that good stuff. And I am sure their parents had much of the same. So why can’t we look to our own black grandparents for pride in our ancestry, and stop making stuff up! What if your grandparents really were losers, though? ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/144 "2011-04-17T15:28:10Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Maybe, but it’s almost become a cliche that so many people claim to be 1/16th or 1/32nd Cherokee. It’s _always_ Cherokee; never Navaho, Seneca, Hopi, Apache or anything else. “…My uncle drives a Cherokee.” -Cedric the Entertainer on black people claiming NA ancestry ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/145 "2011-04-17T15:45:01Z")
> [@](#): > > I think that’s why it bothers me. I think in the case of blacks claiming NA great grandparents, it may not be harmless. I think some self hate action is going down. Projection, your issue onto others. What do you care what anyone claims their ancestry is? Do you question someone who claims to be Irish, or Dutch? Do you project onto them that they are some how ashamed of their English or Danish genes? How silly. Cool story, back a few years now, when they first got to determining people’s ancestral origination based on their genes, there was a show on PBS, I can’t remember the name now, forgive me. They were tracing black people, many of whom believed, or had been told, they had Native ancestry. One of the people profiled was a Harvard/Yale professor of African Studies, a Phd. He was a willing participant and anxious to possibly discover which African tribe he was from. Big surprise, his genes said he had more European blood than African, though he looked totally black, and identified as such. You can imagine how amazed he was, of all the things that might be uncovered he hadn’t considered this one! The hard facts are that people get told, and believe, all sorts of stories about their ancestry, and many of those things are not true. It doesn’t change who they are, or imply they are ashamed of something else. It just proves they believe something not in evidence. This is totally your issue, in my opinion. Why people do what they do, you can not possibly know. Relying on your suspicions to determine their motives, especially since you don’t really know if they are telling you fact, is disingenuous projection, I think. Oh, also, my grandfather, on my mother’s side, had a full blood Cree mother. This was never spoken of, in the family. Once a grandchild uncovered it, we were told never to speak of it, as it would upset my Grandmother, who was still alive then. I was 11yrs old, at the time, and couldn’t understand, why it was never shared with us, why it would upset Gran, or why it was something shameful. The only time it seems to come up, for me, is when discussing how brown I get in the sun, never burning, etc. Like most ancestral stories, it doesn’t really inform who I am today. I am neither proud nor ashamed of said heritage, since, well, it’s literally an accident of birth. I have never quite understood people overly proud of their ancestors, it’s not like you chose them, so don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back! ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/146 "2011-04-17T17:08:30Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > . One of the people profiled was a Harvard/Yale professor of African Studies, a Phd. He was a willing participant and anxious to possibly discover which African tribe he was from. [Henry Gates](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Louis_Gates). More than just being a guest, he was a motive force behind [the various](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Lives) [programs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faces_of_America_%28PBS_series%29). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/147 "2011-04-17T17:48:35Z")
It’s possible that I have a distant Native American cousin out there. I have documented proof that my great grandfather was cheating on his wife when they lived in the Dakota Territory in about 1883. Not too many white wimmins out there at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/148 "2011-04-17T17:56:46Z")
People have always thought I had some NA blood in me. Now that I’m in my 50’s and genealogy is all the rage I have people coming up to me to say that they can see it in my eyes. I’m part Crowsfeet. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/149 "2011-04-17T18:19:55Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > It’s possible that I have a distant Native American cousin out there. I have documented proof that my great grandfather was cheating on his wife when they lived in the Dakota Territory in about 1883. Not too many white wimmins out there at that time. What makes you sure he cheated w/ a woman? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/150 "2011-04-17T18:22:09Z")
It’s funny this thread was bumped. A Black contestant on Survivor mentioned being part Cherokee this week, and I thought to myself, “it’s always Cherokee.” ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/151 "2011-04-17T18:39:13Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > It’s funny this thread was bumped. A Black contestant on Survivor mentioned being part Cherokee this week, and I thought to myself, “it’s always Cherokee.” I’ve fallen behind on Survivor. Did the guy also insinuate that his Cherokee blood would somehow give him a “survivor” advantage in the game? That stuff cracks me up. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/152 "2011-04-17T18:43:17Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I have to agree with those who say it ain’t just black people. I have a lot of geneaologists as library patrons, and I can’t tell you how many people upon meeting me tell me either about their Indian Princess Ancestor or how they’re related to George III. It’s always an Indian princess, too - I mean, princess? Whatever. If they’re related to G3 through his wife Queen Charlotte they’ve probably [got black blood](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/royalfamily.html), as does the British royal family today. I have a theory that a lot of white people who claim Native American ancestry actually have (if there’s any basis to non Euro ancestry at all) black ancestry. Admittedly my sample group is small- my family and a couple of others- but also \*There was a lot more racial mixing between whites and blacks than there was between whites and Indians in the original 13 colonies and territory \*There were unions (marital or just procreative) of blacks and natives \*Many if not most free (or escaped) blacks who were light enough crossed the color line if they could and sometimes claimed native blood to explain a broad nose or darker-than-Euro skin or coarse hair Also, there have been Africans in America reproducing with Indians since 1526 when the African slaves of the Spanish builders of [San Miguel de Gualdape](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Miguel_de_Gualdape) in what’s now South Carolina said adios when their masters abandoned the colony. Accounts vary as to whether the slaves revolted, ran away or were intentionally left behind due to limited room on the evacuation ships, but it’s relatively certain they intermarried with the natives. (Many natives found black skin [and these being Africans as opposed to biracial that accounted for many if not most slaves centuries later would have been very black indeed] not only aesthetically appealing but religiously significant in a good way.) It’s not certain how many slaves were left behind, but at least a few dozen, and while that may not sound like many anybody who has studied genealogy knows that in 2 centuries a small group can result in thousands of descendants. This being in South Carolina, those genes would have spread all up and down the Atlantic seaboard, and the children of African-Native unions would probably have been much healthier than most since Africans had as much resistance to Old World diseases as Europeans. So it’s very possible that even Pocahontas or the Creek chieftains or others who were known to have intermarried with white settlers already had some black ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/153 "2011-04-17T18:46:53Z")
Sorry- I didn’t realize this thread was 3 years old when I posted. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/154 "2011-04-17T18:51:07Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Projection, your issue onto others… No clue what ‘issue’ you think I have, but if I’m ‘projecting’ anything, I hope it is a message, loud and clear, “please, don’t come up to me spouting bullshit about your Indian Princess grandma, cause I ain’t buying it.” For the record, elbows, I’m not in the business of disbelieving every single person who swears they have NA ancestry. You say you, yourself, have NA in your ancestry. Fine. Ok. Sure. I’m just very tired of being fed bullshit from people about their history when I never asked in the first place. It’s annoying. ETA: Sampiro, why apologize? It’s been bumped and folks are posting to it. No need for us to apologize for that. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/155 "2011-04-17T18:54:49Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I’ve fallen behind on Survivor. Did the guy also insinuate that his Cherokee blood would somehow give him a “survivor” advantage in the game? That stuff cracks me up. Of course. And he’s been wearing a feather, too. Course, he’s crazy for many reasons, but the feather is just too much. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/156 "2011-04-17T18:58:21Z")
So you admit you don’t know if they do or don’t have such ancestry but are certain they are claiming so out of shame of being black? Projection. Text book. So you’re really annoyed by people volunteering this info when you didn’t ask? Really? Are you equally annoyed when people volunteer other unrequested information? Or just this one that touches your issue? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/157 "2011-04-17T19:10:33Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > So you admit you don’t know if they do or don’t have such ancestry but are certain they are claiming so out of shame of being black? > > Projection. Text book. > > So you’re really annoyed by people volunteering this info when you didn’t ask? Really? Are you equally annoyed when people volunteer other unrequested information? Or just this one that touches your issue? No. Not info. Just bullshit. When people feed you bullshit, and you know it’s bullshit, it is more than annoying, it is irritating as hell. You have to either call them on it or feel like a real big dummy pretending to believe it. I honestly didn’t realize white folks did this shit all the time, too. This thread enlightened me. If, as Sampiro brings up, some white folks did it because they didn’t want to admit their black ancestry, I find that equally self loathing and pathetic. As a matter of fact, I find it cringingly off-putting that anyone would pretend to be something they aren’t. Particularly when they are trying to get me to buy into their bullshit. I don’t want to play along. Simple as that. For the record, blacks in particular, because of our history in this society, _do_ have parts of our culture that struggle with self-loathing. Most of us admit it is an issue in our culture. I think it should be quashed. I have no problem recognizing that as something I’m aware of when a disproportionate amount of blacks I know claim to be descended from Blackfoot royalty. I call _bullshit._ ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/158 "2011-04-17T19:10:40Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > So you’re really annoyed by people volunteering this info when you didn’t ask? Really? Are you equally annoyed when people volunteer other unrequested information? Or just this one that touches your issue? Are people under some obligation to be equally annoyed by everything? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/159 "2011-04-17T19:16:02Z")
This heritage thing reminds me of the time my mom dabbled in reincarnation therapy, and the house was full of books with case studies. Lots of Indian Princesses and heirs to George III there, as well. A subset of people, more in need of borrowed victimhood perhaps, were slavegirls and flogged-to-death labourers. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889/160 "2011-04-17T20:09:17Z")
I’d always heard my family had Cherokee ancestry too of course. I found out we do have some native ancestry but it’s a tribe I had never even heard of- the [Saponi/Tutelo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saponi) a Sioux tribe that somehow wound up in Virginia and the Carolinas. They were very small and got absorbed by intermarriage with other tribes and non natives. This was also a very long time ago- early 18th century; most people who claim native ancestry seem to think it was much more recent, that there’s probably an actual photo of one of their ancestors in buckskin and feathers somewhere. It’s interesting to speculate on how Siouan Indians wound up in the Mid-Atlantic I’m guessing some of their chiefs caught hell from the wives ("Turn right, I said, right is west, but he’s “Oh noooooo, I know what I’m doing, you just shut up and start thinking of recipes for buffalo because I can practically smell 'em from right here… next thing, we’re in the mountains. Anybody here ever heard of the famous mountain buffalo herds? I thought not, because there AREN’T ANY mountain buffalo herds!”) I wonder if the reason why “It’s always Cherokee” is that they were the tribe that went to the most effort to “act white”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-blacks-you-are-not-native-american/461889.md?page=9)