# My fellow Californians, and our legislature... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074 "2009-05-20T15:14:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/21 "2009-05-20T17:23:28Z")
Stupid legislature _kicks effigy of legislature_ Stupid voters _kicks self_ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/22 "2009-05-20T17:26:21Z")
> [@anu-la1979](#): > > FTR I am an immigrant to this country myself and ethnic so you needn’t lecture me about racism. Right. Because if you’re not white, there’s no way you could be racist. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/23 "2009-05-20T17:36:30Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > See, this is part of why I got the heck out of California and moved to Minnesota, where things run much more smoothly. AT great sacrifice, it must be noted! Because its cold! Goddam cold, bitterly cold. And ice spiders! One of them gets you, you’re a goner, fer sure, you betcha! Besides, Californians who move to MN are subject to widespread derision and social ostracization. And find a good, inexpensive domestic chardonnay? Forget it! Iowa! Iowa is nice! Move to Iowa! ( **Mean** , whatsamatta you!? You want caravans of Califorkies trekking across the wasteland to Bemidji? Duh Range? There is only one thing the rest of the country knows about MN, and that is that its fucking cold! Stay away, don’t move here! And that’s all they _need_ to know…) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/24 "2009-05-20T17:51:15Z")
> [@anu-la1979](#): > > Maybe if they stopped extending social services to illegal immigrants, started cracking down on illegal immigration fullstop, stopped incarcerating people at high volumes and made homeowners pay for their children’s educations I’d be more sympathetic to this viewpoint. > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Additionally, Medi-Cal could stop demanding brand-only medications for all its patients when filling prescriptions, similarly skyrocketing the costs the state pays out in medical benefits. Almost every prescription they do this with results in a $100-200 increase in cost unnecessarily when a generic exists. I’ve never before seen a state Medicaid program that only covers brand medications. It’s insane. These points are only minor and are only an issue because of the current economic situation. The real problem with California is our government is structurally decrepit. Even if the economic problems disappeared in a cloud of federal bailouts, we’d still have a broken government. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/25 "2009-05-20T18:10:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > ( **Mean** , whatsamatta you!? You want caravans of Califorkies trekking across the wasteland to Bemidji? Duh Range? There is only one thing the rest of the country knows about MN, and that is that its fucking cold! Stay away, don’t move here! And that’s all they _need_ to know…) Well… I was sick of California, but I also wanted to move to another state that elects action heroes as governor. So here we are. Oh, and it’s only cold 8 months out of the year. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/26 "2009-05-20T18:11:35Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > See, this is part of why I got the heck out of California and moved to Minnesota, where things run much more smoothly. Except for Senate elections. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/27 "2009-05-20T18:17:16Z")
Maybe the initiative system could be amended, to include the funding. If you vote for something new, your vote also extends to the vote to raise the revenue for it. Is that achievable? ---
**Author:** ![Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/soul_brother_number_two/32/3515_2.png) [@Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soul_Brother_Number_Two)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/28 "2009-05-20T18:31:33Z")
I don’t understand the voter initiative thing. And I’ve been here 15 years. Does any other state pull this shit? Just one thing that sucks about it is that it’s almost impossible to get decent, semi-unbiased information on them. I always end up not voting on half of them or more just because I can’t trust the information I managed to dig up on them. Fuck Prop 13. Fuck Prop 4. Fuck Prop 36 for that matter. Fuck a state that thinks it’s cool to have a movie star for a governor. Also, fuck the fact that it hasn’t yet gotten up to 55 at night, insuring another shitty tomato season. Goddamn California weather anyway… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/29 "2009-05-20T18:43:31Z")
Fuck Prop H8, for THAT matter. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/30 "2009-05-20T18:44:21Z")
> [@Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](#): > > I don’t understand the voter initiative thing. And I’ve been here 15 years. Does any other state pull this shit? Michigan has initiatives. Not as many, and not on the scale that California does, though. I’m sure other states do, too. I don’t miss California at all. It bewilders my parents, who have never lived anywhere else in their lives that I a. left and b. have no intention to return. Not that Michigan is an improvement in functional politics, mind you. But no one here claims to live in THE BEST PLACE ON EARTH, which is what lots of delusional Californians seem to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/31 "2009-05-20T18:47:52Z")
> [@anu-la1979](#): > > FTR I am an immigrant to this country myself and ethnic so you needn’t lecture me about racism. No, I do not think illegal immigrants ought to qualify for social services-the simple fact is that it drains this state of money that could go to legal immigrants and citizens. What does border patrol have to do with proving that you’re a citizen to qualify for state services? If you’ll read my post for comprehension, you’ll note that I did not accuse you, specifically, of racism. Nothing you wrote appears to me to be racist. I merely pointed out that racism is a common element of anti-illegal-immigrant debates, which it is. Second, what do you mean you are “ethnic?” I’m ethnic, too. So is every human on the planet. Third, border patrol comes into it because illegal immigrants are here, and the state has no power to change that. Ergo, it has two options: give them services, or deny them services. I merely pointed out that there are costs to _both_ scenarios. Your scenario, in my analysis, has short-term benefits and long-term costs. The current scenario is obviously not working for anybody, so yours might be an improvement, but I argue that it is in everyone’s interests to make sure that all Californians are healthy, educated, and employed. You obviously disagree. Fine. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/32 "2009-05-20T19:11:50Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Second, what do you mean you are “ethnic?” I’m ethnic, too. So is every human on the planet. ethnic = likes spicy food ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/33 "2009-05-20T19:23:59Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Does anyone know of an authoritative site where we can find tax burden by state? Including state and local income taxes, sales tax, property tax…? I’d like to refute (if indeed its true) the belief held by anu\_la1979, and a man-on-the-street interview I saw on the news last night, that Californians pay some ungodly amount in taxes. [Here’s a list](http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/336.html) of all fifty states and their _per capita_ overall state and local tax rates, which, if I understand it correctly, includes sales, income, and property taxes. Note that this ranks states on a per capita basis, rather than as a function of income. > [@anu-la1979](#): > > [Here you go](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123940286075109617.html). New York is higher than us. We’re still way up there. Your link does not say what you think it means. Having a high maximum income tax rate doesn’t necessarily correlate with a having a high tax burden on the majority of people. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/34 "2009-05-20T19:31:38Z")
I’ve lived here all my life, and I’m not delusional enough to claim it’s The Best Place on Earth. It has a wonderful geographical diversity and natural beauty, and the weather may be darn near perfect. But there’s more to life than that. Anyhoo…Fellow Californians, how do we fix this? Do we march on Sacramento with torches and pitchforks and demand a constitutional convention? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/35 "2009-05-20T19:48:25Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > See, this is part of why I got the heck out of California and moved to Minnesota, where things run much more smoothly. Dude! You totally made me spit out my soda! WARN us before that type of joke! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/36 "2009-05-20T19:58:52Z")
See, on a per capita basis, high taxes in California wouldn’t be a surprise. High property values, combined with a higher than average (for the nation) turnover rate in property sales (Californians don’t stay put for decades, usually), make for some high dollar value property taxes. The property tax on the $1.6 million 1700 sq. ft. homes in San Clemente I saw two years ago (of which there were a gazillion, mind you) would start at $16,000 per year, roughly. Of course, from year to year, no matter how fast the value of your property goes up, the taxes can only increase at the rate of 2%. So in ten years, when your property is twice as valuable, your tax rate has gone down considerably, even though the dollar amounts are still ridiculous. Take that same 1700 sq. ft. home and put it in the middle of South Carolina, and it’s now a $300,000 home at most (they WERE pretty well made and decorated, etc.). Tax value on that is significantly lower, even though the tax rate might be higher (indeed, I think it would be, even after South Carolina traded away half its property taxes for a 1% sales tax increase two years ago, the idiots!). So on a rate basis, or maybe even on an income percentage basis, California might well be somewhat further down the list. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/37 "2009-05-20T20:23:26Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Anyhoo…Fellow Californians, how do we fix this? Do we march on Sacramento with torches and pitchforks and demand a constitutional convention? I’m no expert, and I’ve only been here a few years, but I think a good first step would be to allow the State to go totally bankrupt. Then start from scratch. (someone will be along to prove the “I’m no expert” part shortly) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/38 "2009-05-20T20:33:21Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > I’m no expert, and I’ve only been here a few years, but I think a good first step would be to allow the State to go totally bankrupt. Then start from scratch. Good or bad, it looks like we’re doing the bankrupt approach, unless the legislature manages to work out the problems. Yeah, not very likely. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/39 "2009-05-20T23:28:54Z")
The sun is shining. It’s about 75 degrees right now, with a gentle breeze blowing. I’ve pretty much set myself up to be off the grid with respect to this crap, so I got nothing to complain about. I moved out here from New England about 25 years ago, and I ain’t goin’ nowhere! The OP is pretty much right, I’ll admit. And Pleonast is, too. The problem is structural, not something that can easily be fixed. I’m just glad I can enjoy all the good things here without having to be affected by much of the bad. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074/40 "2009-05-21T01:51:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The sun is shining. It’s about 75 degrees right now, with a gentle breeze blowing. I’ve pretty much set myself up to be off the grid with respect to this crap, so I got nothing to complain about. I moved out here from New England about 25 years ago, and I ain’t goin’ nowhere! > > The OP is pretty much right, I’ll admit. And Pleonast is, too. The problem is structural, not something that can easily be fixed. I’m just glad I can enjoy all the good things here without having to be affected by much of the bad. No matter what happens, the sun will shine, the weather will be perfect, and we’ll always have happy cows 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-fellow-californians-and-our-legislature/497074.md?page=3)