# My first GD question, and yes, it's a religious one. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2002, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929 "2002-10-12T04:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/241 "2002-10-30T18:09:51Z")
To His4Ever I am not finding ways around the scripture, I am directly quoting the scripture, and the use of “I am” doesn’t mean much. We all use those words daily without claiming we are God. The scriptures you quote are mostly in the old testament and have nothing to do with the new testament. From what you believe Jesus is not to be followed or believed over the other writers in the Bible. Here I thought He was the Main Man. You quote what you want to quote and ignore the verses that contradict your fear teaching. We all have a choice: love or fear, it is that simple. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/242 "2002-10-30T20:50:34Z")
Dear Leroy, the verses I quoted in my last post aren’t from the old testament. Neither are the majority of the ones I’ve shared. Anyone can review my posts to check it out. You know, I could say the same thing as you say about me. You accept the verses that support your view and ignore the other ones. You aren’t about to accept any teaching that doesn’t agree with your near death experience. You asked me to tell you where anyone calls Jesus God and I told you, from the new testament. I’ve given you Jesus’ own words that says his blood will be shed for the remission of sins. What more do you want? In my humble view, the whole thing isn’t about teaching a “fear” doctrine. It’s telling the truth about what the Bible says about the plan of salvation or any other subject for that matter. I didn’t deliberately decide “oh I’m gonna scare people by preaching fear, etc.” I just say what it says in the word. You haven’t commented on the fact of what Jesus said above. They’re His own words. Believe them or not. I leave you to whatever you desire to believe, whether it agrees with what God says about it or not. My prayers for you continue. In His love, His4ever ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/243 "2002-10-30T20:56:27Z")
Dear Leroy, the verses I quoted in my last post aren’t from the old testament. Neither are the majority of the ones I’ve shared. Anyone can review my posts to check it out. You know, I could say the same thing as you say about me. You accept the verses that support your view and ignore the other ones. You aren’t about to accept any teaching that doesn’t agree with your near death experience. You asked me to tell you where anyone calls Jesus God and I told you, from the new testament. I’ve given you Jesus’ own words that says his blood will be shed for the remission of sins. What more do you want? In my humble view, the whole thing isn’t about teaching a “fear” doctrine. It’s telling the truth about what the Bible says about the plan of salvation or any other subject for that matter. I didn’t deliberately decide “oh I’m gonna scare people by preaching fear, etc.” I just say what it says in the word. You haven’t commented on the fact of what Jesus said above. They’re His own words. Believe them or not. I leave you to whatever you desire to believe, whether it agrees with what God says about it or not. My prayers for you continue. In His love, His4ever ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/244 "2002-10-30T22:06:08Z")
To His4Ever You are right. I do choose the verses I believe are true and ignore the others, just as you do. I believe in truth, the whole truth. This just shows the large amount of contradictions in the Bible. No, you didn’t just choose to teach fear, it was first taught to you by your parents, whose parents taught them, etc. Fear has a long life without truth. If you don’t break out of the box, and read what others say, you can not learn about fear and love. I want people to know they have a choice. It is not simply believe as the fundamentals say or go to hell. No, it is not that way at all. Everyone has a choice, including you, to choose fear or love. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/245 "2002-10-30T22:10:31Z")
By the way, His4Ever You never commented on the versus I quote by Jesus either, love one another, do not judge, forgive everyone, etc. Love Leroy I will pray for you also. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/246 "2002-10-30T23:51:47Z")
Hi Leroy:) , I think those love and forgiving verses are just wonderful. I certainly need to be a more loving,forgiving person. I just happen to think the love includes sharing the gospel. You know what I mean by that so I needn’t explain it again. Thanks very much for the prayers. I like you and we’ll just have to agree to disagree about certain things. Love in Him, His4ever ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/247 "2002-10-31T04:19:56Z")
Love not only includes the gospel, it is the gospel. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/248 "2002-10-31T05:18:53Z")
I think I’m being too subtle, let me try a forward approach. **His4Ever** , several times in this thread and others, you’ve made the claim that your position, especially in regard to Christian Scripture is **THE TRUTH**. By this, I assume you mean it to be the only accurate interpretation of the text. You’re simply not saying “this is my opinion” or “this is what I believe” or “this is what I believe is right”. No, you’re setting yourself up as an authority on Scripture and its interpretation. Is that what you’re intending? You’re not simply stating your opinion, you’re stating **for a fact** this is what the text means. I’m not ignoring the word of God, but I am asking how you can claim to know that other people’s interpretation is wrong while your’s is right. **Polycarp** , thanks for the words. I’m beginning to really appreciate Bishop Spong’s statemtent that many Christians are ignorant of their own holy book. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/249 "2002-10-31T13:21:57Z")
:rolleyes: Sighhh, I’m not setting myself up as some perfect authority on the Scriptures. I just read a sentence and see what it says. We can pick a verse or verses and argue about their interpretation from now till doomsdsay, what will that accomplish? I’m getting the impression that there are many people here who really don’t want to make a certain decision about anything. They just want to continually debate and argue endlessly about what something says when the plain words are right there on the paper. I get the feeling that they don’t want it to say a certain thing so they must find arguments against it or pull out the old “but that’s just your interpretation” routine. I wonder, did you constantly argue with your teachers when you were in school about what the text in your schoolbooks said? This is just going round and round and round. Someone says it doesn’t say something. I point out where it does say just that. And someone comes back and finds a way around that and on and on it goes. There’s no point to it. You’ll simply have to believe what you want, regardless of what the text says. There are people who can look at white and see black and look at black and see what because that’s what they want to see. They’re so determined that the Bible says what they want it to say that imho they’ve brainwashed themselves. I’ll say this is all my opinion or belief, ok? That doesn’t sound so authoritative. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/250 "2002-10-31T14:05:54Z")
But it _ **is** _ just your intepretation. > [@](#): > > There are people who can look at white and see black and look at black and see what because that’s what they want to see. They’re so determined that the Bible says what they want it to say that imho they’ve brainwashed themselves. Pot, kettle, black. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/251 "2002-10-31T14:07:24Z")
My friend - re-read your own post, but imagine that someone else had posted it and addressed it to you. Do you see? ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/252 "2002-10-31T14:10:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grimpixie \* > \*\*My friend - re-read your own post, but imagine that someone else had posted it and addressed it to you. Do you see? \*\* Was aimed at **His4ever** clearly… ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/253 "2002-10-31T14:28:50Z")
I believe the verse you wanted was John 10:30 “I and the Father are one”-Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/254 "2002-10-31T14:55:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > **I wonder, did you constantly argue with your teachers when you were in school about what the text in your schoolbooks said** Not constantly, hardly at all probably, but if presented with something that really looked like it was either wrong or misrepresented by the teacher, what other reasonable course of action would there be but to query it. Asking hard (and sometimes seemingly foolish) questions is fundamental to the process of discovery, allowing oneself to be spoonfed information and accepting it uncritically doesn’t lead anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/255 "2002-10-31T15:24:24Z")
All of my teachers expected, and a few demanded, that their students use their minds. All of my teachers, so far, appreciated an intelligent discussion about the material they present. So far, H4E does not present any material. She does not parse any information. She merely regurgitates someone else’s disinformation and prejudices. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/256 "2002-10-31T18:08:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > :rolleyes: Sighhh, I’m not setting myself up as some perfect authority on the Scriptures. I raise the BS flag on this. Not only are you setting yourself up as the ultimate authority on the Bible, you’ve also set yourself up as the ultimate authority on other faith systems and their religious texts. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/257 "2002-10-31T22:08:56Z")
Wherever you go in life, you will run into people, groups of people, who firmly believe they have the right answers and everyone else is wrong. Scientists, religionists, politicians, etc., no one is safe from this mind set. Learn from them all, but except nothing as truth until you have tested it. Yes, there are truths to be found. But you, and only you, are the one who will determine what truth is for youself. I believe this thread has done well, pointing out many things about religion and the Bible that were previously unknown. My truth is love is greater than fear. I would like you to consider a Creator of unconditional love. A Creator who accepts you just as you are, holds you safe and secure, guaranteeing you life eternal. The quality of that life is up to you. This is the God I met in my NDE. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/258 "2002-10-31T22:35:50Z")
> [@](#): > > My truth is love is greater than fear. I would like you to consider a Creator of unconditional love. A Creator who accepts you just as you are, holds you safe and secure, guaranteeing you life eternal. A noble witness, Leroy. In support: > [@](#): > > Set me as a seal upon your heart, as a seal upon your arm; for love is strong as death, passion fierce as the grave. Its flashes are flashes of fire, a raging flame. Many waters cannot quench love, neither can floods drown it. If one offered for love all the wealth of one’s house, it would be utterly scorned. (Song of Solomon 8:6-7) > > There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love. (I John 4:18) (Granted that the first has to do with romantic love and not agapetic divine love, the point remains the same – if the love of two mortals founded on desire is this strong, how much stronger must the love of God be?) ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/259 "2002-11-01T01:28:28Z")
I thank you Polycarp and the others whose tongues are tied to their heart. May you all live in peace and joy forever. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929/260 "2002-11-02T08:03:16Z")
\*\*His4Ever[/]b, go back and read your postings, both in this and other threads. You constantly say “…but I’m just telling the Truth!” (paraphrased, but the intent is there). When you say that, you **ARE** setting yourself up as an authority on Scripture. You keep saying _it’s plainly in black and white; for everyone to read_, again, paraphrased. While it’s there for everyone to read, it’s meaning certainly isn’t clear. The reason there are so many denominations of Christianity is because not everyone agrees on what Scripture does and doesn’t mean. You can even get them to agree on who is or isn’t a Christian, let alone various biblical verses. The issue isn’t as black and white as you make it out to be. We can go on and on about this, but I think I’d have better luck teaching a pig to sing than convincing you that other people’s opinions can be as valid as your own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-gd-question-and-yes-its-a-religious-one/131929.md?page=14)