# My First Rant (tm) - Creditors are Assholes **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 31, 2001, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723 "2001-10-31T16:10:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/21 "2001-10-31T19:27:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess that was just a specific piece of technology used by Budget Car Rentals and not many other places? It seems that if every business had such technology this wouldn’t be a problem, at all, ever again. 🙂 “No,” to the first sentence, and “wrong” to the second. Almost every business that takes a credit card or a debit card will check the credit limit/bank balance before running the charge. If the charge is prospective (to be incurred later, as with car rentals or hotels), they will “set aside” an amount sufficient to cover the probable charge, just as you and your friend discovered. But as has already been explained, with a debit card – unlike a credit card – there is NO WAY for the business to confirm that you don’t have other outstanding checks out there floating around that will overdraw your account in the time between when the charge is made and when the charge actually makes it to the bank. In other words, lets say you want to buy a $20 CD. The business checks your account and sees that you have $50, and so allows you to purchase the CD. Unbeknownst to them, however, a $200 check you wrote clears that day, and your account is then severely overdrawn. What is the bank’s recourse then? It has none. That is why banks _can_ be very picky about who they give debit cards to – even more picky in some cases than about who they give credit cards to, because with a credit card you can’t usually write checks or otherwise access the account, so the “balance owed” is almost always accurate. With debit cards, in contrast, it is very, very easy to overdraw an account – you just have to make all the withdrawals before the system can track them all, using a combination of the debit card _and_ paper checks – because they electronic system can only track the former, not the latter. See the difference? And yes, a debit card is an ATM card, usually. Some ATM cards only allow cash withdrawals from ATM machines, however, and cannot be used as debit cards. I have a single card that can do both, as I think most people do. ---
**Author:** ![monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/22 "2001-10-31T20:00:01Z")
Hi Caiata. Just one quick question for you: Why is it so important to you to receive a check card? Is it for the convenience, or to try to rebuild your credit? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/23 "2001-10-31T20:01:02Z")
I apologize, Caiata. Your finances are none of my business. I had flashbacks. Must restore balance now. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/24 "2001-10-31T20:04:12Z")
After a bad financial time for me, I applied for (and was denied) a Visa Check Card also. I couldn’t understand the logic, but the bank people did explain it. I filled out the application and they held it for 1 year. On that one year anniversary, they checked to see if I had overdrawn my account. I had not, so they granted me the Visa check card. It was actually harder to get that then a regular interest charging card. Zette ---
**Author:** ![Caiata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@Caiata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caiata)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/25 "2001-10-31T20:29:53Z")
**k.os** - heh, I just got your name, I think. I have an ATM card, but I don’t believe it works for purchases. I’ve never tried it; if it did work for purchases I wouldn’t really need a cheque card at all. I can’t imagine they’d let me have a multi-purpose ATM card if they fear I’d withdraw/spend too much money. 🙂 **Bricker** - I am in the process of getting ahold of my credit rating, actually. I asked the lady at the bank, when she called and told me about having my request denied, if I could get a copy of my credit report. She gave me the address of a Credit Bureau here in town that I should go to. I’m stopping by there on the way to work, as it is conveniently on the way. **Jodi** - Ahh, gotcha. Still annoyed though as I have at max one ‘bounced cheque’ on my record, stupid Pizza Hut. (And might I add, the fees for stopping payment on 32 cheques is incredibly, excruciatingly painful. $12 a piece. Buh.) In the 8 years I’ve banked there I’ve never overdrawn my account. Guh. In your example there would have been a problem no matter what, 'cause of the cheque. Too bad banks don’t take character witnessing into account - everyone who knows me knows I’d never do that! 😉 **monster** - Mostly for the convenience. I work very late nights and if I notice after work that I need to stop and get gas, I hate having to walk from one brightly-lit area, through a dark area, and into a gas station with _Seedy Subversive Types[super]TM[/super]_, in order to pay. People have been attacked in my work parking lot before, and ever since then I’ve been nervous, and I’d rather stay right there by my car when buying gas, since it’s all nice and bright there. Also I am going to Australia this winter for a trip, and it would be nice to have a way to access my cheque account without showing 18000 forms of ID or paying incredible fees on foreign ATM machines. I’m jittery about carrying large amounts of cash overseas, and will probably resort to traveller’s cheques instead, but the cheque card would be much nicer. I suppose I could get one of those pre-approved, “0% interest until May 2002, then 23.7% APR thereafter” cards, suck up the annual fee and security deposit, use it while I’m in Australia and then pay everything off when I get home (yeah, I have the money for that, the money itself really isn’t the problem! It’s the method of paying! _grumble_), and then cancel it after I’ve paid it off but before the 0% interest wears off … but that seems like even more hassle! ☹ **Libertarian** - apology accepted. Thank you. 🙂 **Zette** - Buh, I haven’t had an overdraught in 3 years! You lucky! And I applied for one ages ago and was denied, so it’s been at least 2 years since I filed that original application. I wish I could get the same deal from them 🙂 Maybe my bank is just staffed by evil soul-eating demons (that’s my recent theory, anyway) … ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/26 "2001-10-31T20:37:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Caiata \* > Alright, so I’ve never started my own thread here before. But I just wanted to say. > > GAH! > > Gah gah gah gah gah gah gah gah gah gah gah gah gah gah! One would hope you are looking in a mirror when you say that because all of the problems you related are, in fact, your fault. > [@](#): > > Yes, I _know_ my credit rating has some blotches on it. That’s the first step in solving the problem, I hope you realize: recognition. The second step, evidently, is to accept your responsibility for that. You, again evidently, have yet to progress beyond the average 4-year old’s understanding of that concept: NONE. > [@](#): > > I defaulted on a student loan inadvertantly because they sent the notices to my student address in St. Louis rather than my home address in Indiana; and my fuckwad family never told me. That’s amazing: you blame two other groups of people for your own failure. When you applied for the loan, there’s a little thing known as the loan agreement. Whip out your copy (or if you irresponsibly tossed it out, read the bank’s copy). You will notice that nifty little bit in there where you agree to inform the bank of your change of address. In any event, the bank presumably still has the same address and you are not absolved from making your payments just because you didn’t receive a little reminder in the mail. The reminder is a convenience, a courtesy. It is not a necessity. > [@](#): > > My former roommate stole the rent money for pot 3 months running, and we got evicted. Wasn’t aware you could just rent pot. Seriously, though, instead of stashing the cash in the wrong place, perhaps the bank would’ve been a better site for the money until you could fork it over to the landlord. After all, the bank is obviously a lot more responsible with funds than you appear to be. > [@](#): > > My chequebook was stolen and the asshole wrote some very, very, very bad cheques. **You have him on videotape** trying to access my account. First rule of thumb with stolen checkbooks: CONTACT YOUR BANK THE SECOND YOU NOTICE IT’S STOLEN AND ISSUE STOP PAYMENTS FOR EACH AND EVERY CHECK THERE. Then shred all the checks you currently have at home and have the bank issue you new checkbooks with numbers very far off of the old checkbooks. > [@](#): > > Then I was driving without insurance (thanks, asshole roommate, for not only stealing my money but also losing your job and making me choose between which bills I should pay - ironically, I chose ‘rent’ - and which I shouldn’t. Jerk.) and someone hit my car. Out here in California, it’s against the law to drive without insurance. Whatever your rationale is for not paying your insurance, you are not absolved from obeying the law. > [@](#): > > But you know what? I know you are irresponsible, if this “rant” is any indication. > [@](#): > > Every single time one of these creditor fucks has called me, I’ve paid them. Every time. For “creditor fucks,” read “those individuals or entitities which I have already promised to repay the money they foolishly entrusted to me.” > [@](#): > > Even the ones about the bad cheques, for whom I provided a police report. Yes. I paid the twats. I paid them because they claimed that the cheque the fucking asshole thief wrote was “not in the book of cheques that were stolen.” Yes, somehow, cheque number 150, by their logic, was _not_ in the first book of cheques. “It goes from 101 to 149”, they say. “150 - 200 are in the second book.” Odd, that, how the first book you get has 49 cheques and the second has 51 - what the fuck kind of reality do they live in?!? But no, they’d rather _lie_ to me and _force_ me to pay them (under threat of “the surgical removal of funds from my wages” and “R-9ing your credit” or something like that) rather than admit that they might - **just maybe** - have been wrong. Fuckwads. Odd that you describe it that way. My checkbooks ran “100-149,” “150-199,” “200-249,” etc. There’s a thing known as “inclusive number” when you’re counting items with serial numbers on them: take the larger number, subtract from it the smaller number, AND THEN ADD ONE to get the actual number of itesm. Fascinating that. Or, perhaps in your “reality” there is such a thing as a physical zeroth item. Also, the bank could’ve been going off of what you provided in the police report. If you screwed that up (and evidently counting funds and negotiable instruments isn’t one of your strong points), you really can’t legitimately blame the bank. > [@](#): > > I paid the $2300 worth of damage my **1988 Ford Escort Pony** somehow did to that **1965 Buick Skylark** tank of yours that you rammed into it! (But oddly enough, my car, you know, the tin can on wheels, suffered from _only_ a broken headlight thingy. Grr.) Who did the police say was at fault in the collision? If 'twas you, tough. If 'twas the other individual, you’re liable for your lawbreaking, but not for the other individual’s faults. > [@](#): > > Three weeks after the student loan guys _finally_ put two and two together to make four and called me at my _actual residence_, I paid them off. Three weeks. Three. It was a simple fucking misunderstanding and I rectified it as quickly as I could because I feel damn guilty about having outstanding bills! But not guilty enough to prevent that from happening by, say, TELLING THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE THAT YOU MOVED?! > [@](#): > > I have a car loan. For $5432.10. You gave me that, sure, at 20% interest, but still, you gave me _that_. It was a 30-month loan and I have paid off every god-damned payment but two of them, and it’s only been 15 months since I bought the car. Pretty steep interest there, friend. Don’t interest rates like that only get shopped to those who need “no credit/bad credit” deals? > [@](#): > > But they won’t give me a fucking cheque card. Although it’s called a check card (or “cheque card”), it’s still a type of credit card. Read that word once again: CREDIT. C-R-E-D-I-T. Look it up in a dictionary. Understand what the word means. Then look at your complete (or nearly complete) lack of fiscal responsibility. > [@](#): > > No, apparently, it’s not the point that you have to _have_ the money in your account before you can use the card, or that it works just like any of the 20 chequebooks you’ve already sent me. It’s not the point that I pay my bills when they come up, and have done so for three fucking years. But I can’t have a cheque card because “my credit rating isn’t good enough”?! Not good enough? Good enough for over $5000, but not good enough to access my fucking cheque account with a card? Not good enough to stamp “VISA” on? **Fuck you!** TDB. That’s short for: TOO DAMN BAD. Check cards do not, repeat: do not, work just like checkbooks. They work just like credit cards except for one little thing: the money is taken out of your checking account immediately (or almost immediately). The credit card issuing company doesn’t wait around for you to get off of your fanny and send the payment to them. > [@](#): > > Have I _not_ jumped through hoops to clear my fucking credit report? I’ve paid things I legally shouldn’t have had to, I throw money at you assholes right and left, I have had my job for over two years now and I’m quite secure in it, the USPS doesn’t just go bankrupt no matter how financially bad their situation is. You fucking **owe** me that cheque card. Clearing a credit report is, in most cases, a misnomer. What one does is re-establish good credit. Paying stuff you shouldn’t pay isn’t on the menu for doing that. Once you start paying someone’s bills for them, in many cases you become legally responsible for those bills. That’s almost like cosigning a loan with someone you know full well isn’t going to repay the loan. Guess who gets stuck, legally, for the repayment: YOU. > [@](#): > > In short, you creditor asshole fuckwads can suck my used tampon. > > Jerks. > > GAH! Lame ending to a lame, and irresponsible, rant. Too bad you don’t appear to be learning any responsibility at college. V E R Y I M P O R T A N T H I N T F O L L O W S : PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYERS WANT TO HIRE RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE. BTW, good luck on the job hunt when you get around to graduating. Yes, that was a snide comment. Oh, and Lib really didn’t have anything to apologize for. "Twas you who brought up the subject, in The Pit no less, of your finances. ---
**Author:** ![k.os](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@k.os](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k.os)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/27 "2001-10-31T20:43:25Z")
I think they would be more likely to give you a multi-purpose ATM card than a Check card. With an ATM card, you only have access to the available money in your account. Of course, you can still write checks that could be overdrawn, but the risk for them is smaller, I think. The reason I mention that is that I do not know anyone who has an account and an ATM card that can’t use it to pay for purchases. Maybe it’s a Canadian thing, but you should look into it. [sub]And for my name, if you made it rhyme with Chaos, you’re probably right… :D[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Caiata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@Caiata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caiata)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/28 "2001-10-31T21:22:36Z")
**Monty** , have you not read the rest of the thread? Everyone else please skip along. This is going to be a very boring quoting of everything I have said in the thread. > [@](#): > > _You say:_ > > That’s the first step in solving the problem, I hope you realize: recognition. The second step, evidently, is to accept your responsibility for that. You, again evidently, have yet to progress beyond the average 4-year old’s understanding of that concept: NONE. > [@](#): > > _I say:_ > > and yes, I know it was **my fault** for moving in with a deadbeat (though I did not know he was a deadbeat when we moved in together) and **my fault** for choosing the wrong bill to pay and **my fault** for not understanding the nature of the “work-study program” > [@](#): > > _You say:_ > > When you applied for the loan, there’s a little thing known as the loan agreement. Whip out your copy (or if you irresponsibly tossed it out, read the bank’s copy). You will notice that nifty little bit in there where you agree to inform the bank of your change of address. In any event, the bank presumably still has the same address and you are not absolved from making your payments just because you didn’t receive a little reminder in the mail. The reminder is a convenience, a courtesy. It is not a necessity. > [@](#): > > _I said:_ > > “It was $20200 tuition and I was under the impression that they had covered all of it, **because I was never asked to sign any loan papers**.” > > and > > “Had I known that it was a “loan against my tuition” and not a job, I still would not have expected to pay that back because it was my (perhaps incorrect, but I read it in the description for federally-granted student loans) understanding that **they would not bill you for a student loan until you had no longer been taking classes for 6 months**.” > > and > > “The very moment they contacted me and explained the situation **(which was during the second semester of my classes in Indiana)** I paid them.” > [@](#): > > _You say:_ > > First rule of thumb with stolen checkbooks: CONTACT YOUR BANK THE SECOND YOU NOTICE IT’S STOLEN AND ISSUE STOP PAYMENTS FOR EACH AND EVERY CHECK THERE. > [@](#): > > _I say:_ > > “because they lied to me during the court appointment and the police report clearly showed **(along with my record saying that I had cancelled those cheques)**” > > and > > “(And might I add, the fees for stopping payment on 32 cheques is incredibly, excruciatingly painful. $12 a piece. Buh.)” > [@](#): > > _You said:_ > > Out here in California, it’s against the law to drive without insurance. Whatever your rationale is for not paying your insurance, you are not absolved from obeying the law. Over here in Indiana it is, too. Have I ever said it wasn’t? Have I ever contested that it was a bad thing to have done? No. Have I ever argued that I was in the wrong there? No. Again, let me quote myself: > [@](#): > > _I said:_ > > “I am not contesting that it was bad to do so. I am contesting that there could possibly have been $2300 in damage to their car (a tank) when my car had such little damage that I never even had to fix it.” > > and > > “I am not arguing that they made me pay the bills which I consider legitimate - **the $2300 for the car accident** ” > > and > > “I know that it was stupid to drive without insurance. I knew it at the time I made that bad decision.” > [@](#): > > _You say:_ > > My checkbooks ran “100-149,” “150-199,” “200-249,” etc. There’s a thing known as “inclusive number” when you’re counting items with serial numbers on them: take the larger number, subtract from it the smaller number, AND THEN ADD ONE to get the actual number of itesm. Fascinating that. Or, perhaps in your “reality” there is such a thing as a physical zeroth item. Mine were 101 - 150, 151 - 200, 201 - 250, and so on and so forth. But you’re missing the point. Read what they said to me again. (And this is irreparably etched into my mind, because I was so pissed off about it. There is no possibility that I am mistaking what they said.) > [@](#): > > _I said:_ > > “It goes from **101** to **149** ”, they say. “ **150** - **200** are in the second book.” \*\*149 - 101 = 48 48 + 1 = 49 200 - 150 = 50 50 + 1 = 51\*\* So, > [@](#): > > _When I said:_ > > Odd, that, how the first book you get has **49 cheques** and the **second has 51** - what the fuck kind of reality do they live in?!? You will see that I was in fact right, as proved by your very own formula. > [@](#): > > _You say:_ > > Who did the police say was at fault in the collision? If 'twas you, tough. If 'twas the other individual, you’re liable for your lawbreaking, but not for the other individual’s faults. The police report says it is their fault. They got over into my lane without a turn signal notice and without checking their mirrors. They sideswiped my car in doing so. State law in Indiana apparently states that if you are not carrying insurance you are treated as if the accident was your fault. However, let me reiterate: > [@](#): > > _I said:_ > > I am contesting that there could possibly have been $2300 in damage to their car (a tank) when my car had such little damage that I never even had to fix it. > [@](#): > > _You say:_ > > But not guilty enough to prevent that from happening by, say, TELLING THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE THAT YOU MOVED?! > [@](#): > > _I said:_ > > to my student address in St. Louis rather than my home address in Indiana When I applied to the out-of-state college I made certain that they knew that I had two addresses, one in St. Louis for use during the school year, and one in Indiana during vacations. When I transferred schools (or did you miss that part, since you seem to have missed so very much in reading this?) I also informed the school of my new address so that they could send transfer paperwork and transcripts to the appropriate places. But let me, _again_, repeat myself: > [@](#): > > _I said:_ > > “I had no reason to believe that I had any loan outstanding” > > and > > “I was never asked to sign any loan papers” If no loan company ever had me sign papers, it would follow that there was no loan company for me to tell that I had moved, non? I told the school I moved. When they turned it over to the collections people, after sending my previous school-year residence several notices that my family did not tell me about, the collections people simply looked up my address, said, “oh hey, she lives in Indiana, not Missouri, maybe that’s the problem,” and called me. That was all I needed. Once it was clear to me that I owed them money (read the quotes above, perhaps read my third post in the thread, you might understand better) I paid it. > [@](#): > > _You said:_ > > Pretty steep interest there, friend. Don’t interest rates like that only get shopped to those who need “no credit/bad credit” deals? > [@](#): > > _I said:_ > > Yes, I know my credit rating has some blotches on it. I know you read that one because you quoted it. Yes, interest rates like that only get shopped to those who need “no credit/bad credit” deals. But I bought my car from a reputable Pontiac dealer in the city, _not_ one that only catered to no credit/bad credit deals. And I’ve never had any illusions about my credit rating being bad. I know this. I have stated it a zillion times. So what’s your point, snookie-ookums? > [@](#): > > _You say:_ > > Then look at your complete (or nearly complete) lack of fiscal responsibility. > [@](#): > > _I say:_ > > “I have maintained quite expensive insurance policies ever since.” > > and > > “I paid for what the scholarship did not cover. Personally. Out of money I earned in my job.” > > and > > “I have handled my money responsibly ever since this all happened three or more years ago.” > > and > > “15 months of paying off car payments in a timely, and in fact ahead-of-schedule, fashion” > > and > > “[…] paying off all outstanding debts and then maintaining periodical payments such as car loans, rent, insurance bills, phone bills, cellular phone bills, etc., […] I have done nothing _but_ that since I was evicted nearly three years ago.” > > and > > “I don’t have any current debts” > > and > > “I have paid off all but $466 of it a mere 15 months into the loan” > > and > > “It was a 30-month loan and I have paid off every god-damned payment but two of them, and it’s only been 15 months since I bought the car.” > > and > > “I have had my job for over two years now” Now, since I am going to be late to work if I prattle on any longer, let me just say: “In short, you can suck my used tampon.” ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/29 "2001-10-31T21:35:05Z")
K.OS – > [@](#): > > I think they would be more likely to give you a multi-purpose ATM card than a Check card. With an ATM card, you only have access to the available money in your account. Of course, you can still write checks that could be overdrawn, but the risk for them is smaller, I think. I’m pretty sure they’re the same thing. So long as the card accesses a checking account, that is. (That’s what makes it a “check card.”) If it accessed a savings account, I guess you’d call it a debit card or a multi-purpose ATM card. But really they’re the same thing. They allow a person to access his or her checking account to pay for purchases using the card, as opposed to writing a check. > [@](#): > > The reason I mention that is that I do not know anyone who has an account and an ATM card that can’t use it to pay for purchases. Maybe it’s a Canadian thing, but you should look into it. Well, this may indicate that you don’t know anyone with bad credit. Or it may indicate your bank(s) are somewhat laxer in who they will give check cards to. But it is very possible to get a card that allows cash withdrawals from an ATM machine only (an ATM card) instead of a debit card or check card. That’s what many banks do for customers with poor credit, and some banks still have ATM cards only (single use cards) and not check cards (multi-purpose cards). AFAIK, ATM card = card accessing ATM for $. Check card (debit card) = card allowing one to debit account using the card. Most commonly, a single card will do both (what you call a “multi-purpose ATM card”), but they don’t have to. But I’m pretty sure when CAIATA talks about a check card and you talk about a multi-purpose ATM card, you’re talking about the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/30 "2001-10-31T21:54:48Z")
I’m starting to think that it **is** a Canadian thing. There is no such thing up here as a card that either lets you take out money from an ATM **OR** use it for Interac. And I cannot believe that my bank card (which I can also use at a teller) had anything to do with my credit: I was about 13 when I got it. **Monty** : I have no clue why you think she’s irresponsible. She got a lot of bad breaks but she did what she could. What would **you** have done differently? ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/31 "2001-10-31T21:59:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*And yes, a debit card is an ATM card, usually. Some ATM cards only allow cash withdrawals from ATM machines, however, and cannot be used as debit cards. I have a single card that can do both, as I think most people do. \*\* As a Canadian currently living in the U.S.A., let me clear up a bit of confusion here. In Canada, “debit card” equals “ATM card”; someone with an ATM card can use it to make purchases at certain retailers. These retailers have special keypads at the register which are connected to the same network that the ATM’s use (there’s one primary such network in Canada, called “Interac”), and you have to enter your PIN to make a purchase. Any ATM card can be used for this, provided the retailer has the keypad. In the United States, “debit card” equals “check-card”; someone with a check-card can use it to make purchases at any retailer that accepts Visa. Instead of entering your PIN, you have to provide your signature, like a credit card, but the money is deducted straight from your bank account like a Canadian debit card. Not all ATM cards are check-cards. (I have seen retailers in the States with the keypads, but they’re not as ubiquitous as they are in Canada, perhaps because there’s more than one ATM network in the States.) So the two concepts are almost the same, but not quite. I personally prefer the Canadian version, as it strikes me as being more secure, but the American version is probably easier for the retailers. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/32 "2001-10-31T22:05:40Z")
I have nothing substantive to contribute to this thread - I just want to say that that was one of the most egregious cases of jumping in without reading past the OP (or even carefully reading the OP) that I have ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/33 "2001-10-31T22:28:54Z")
I just typed out a bunch of mumbo-jumbo and then saw that Math Geek explained it much better than I did. Caitia, I totally understand why you would want to have a check card. It is really much more convenient than writing checks or making sure you’ve got enough cash to cover your purchase. Have you checked with your bank to see if they offer the ATM/debit card that others have described? Also, for your Austrailia trip, it may be worthwhile for you to get one of those credit cards that has a high interest rate. If you have the money to pay off your trip, then you won’t need to worry about the rate. And if you get a credit card and can maintain a good credit rating with it, your bank may be more likely to issue you a check card in the future. ---
**Author:** ![monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/34 "2001-10-31T22:36:53Z")
Oops, I forgot one thing I wanted to point out. Like Math Geek said, some merchants allow you to use your ATM card to buy products. You just have to enter in your PIN number to complete the transaction. I think of it this way: An ATM/debit card does not have a VISA logo on it A check card does have a VISA logo on it and is treated like a credit card at the merchant Both deduct the purchase from your checking account, but a VISA check card is more widely accepted than an ATM/debit card. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/35 "2001-10-31T22:54:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zette \* > \*\*After a bad financial time for me, I applied for (and was denied) a Visa Check Card also. I couldn’t understand the logic, but the bank people did explain it. I filled out the application and they held it for 1 year. On that one year anniversary, they checked to see if I had overdrawn my account. I had not, so they granted me the Visa check card. > \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by cheezit_ > \*\*I paid it, mainly just to get it off my record. My whole point is this. In May, I finally opened a new checking account at another bank, but the only reason I was able to is that I knew the New Accounts person and a couple of other people at the bank. They look at what Telecheck, Checksystems or others say about you. \*\* Interesting. I have never had to wait for a check card after opening an account, and I have opened several accounts as I’ve moved about and always recieve a debit card as my initial card. I haven’t had an ATM only card since I was 15, and I’ve banked with at least 7 different institutions since then. I’ve certainly never experienced any type of credit check when opening an account as cheezit describes. Is this common practice in some area? Many gas stations and grocery stores will accept ATM only cards, you just have to punch in your PIN rather than sign a receipt. Just FYI, though, when given a choice, the bank vastly prefers that you sign rather than provide a PIN. The distinction is important as the routing is different and banks make much higher fees off of the VISA transaction compared to teh ATM transaction (fees that are charged to the retailer). One further point of clarification, debit cards can be either VISA or MasterCard. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Syzygy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syzygy)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/36 "2001-10-31T23:28:54Z")
As I reached this thread late in the game, I really have nothing to add to the dicussion save this: **caiata** , this is the Pit. Feel free to tell **Monty** to go fuck himself. I realize you may be refraining from using that type of language for a reason, in which case, pretend I told him that. You really handed his ass to him. Bravo. As has been said, the bank may be more justified in their refusal of the cheque card than you might have originally known. Even so, I hope everything works out for you. I have had my share of finanical irresponsibility (and deadbeat roomies) as well. I’m glad to see you’ve at least learned from your mistakes thus far. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/37 "2001-10-31T23:38:36Z")
My credit union will issue either an ATM card, which can be used only for transactions at an ATM machine, or a check-card, which can be used at an ATM machine or at a retailer’s as a debit-card. You can choose either, but they can refuse to give you one if they choose. It is easier to get an ATM card then a check-card. I have a check-card on my personal account. We can’t get a card on our joint account, due to our initial poor management of that account. Someday we may be able to get a check-card on that account, but I’m not holding my breath. I believe they said we could get just an ATM card if we wanted, after some period without any bounced checks. Our check-cards work through the Visa system and have the Visa logo, but to the best of my knowledge that is a contractual arrangement between my bank and Visa to use the Visa system - my card is not from Visa nor do they determine who gets a card. As it was explained to me, it is similar to having long-distance service on your telephone - the LD company doesn’t lay their own wires, but rather uses the existing lines laid by Bell. (Personally, I’d rather have the PIN-style debit card, but no one has those around here. The banks don’t offer them and, although the major retailers have a number-pad on their machines, the pads don’t work.) I’d say your bank was lying if they told you that Visa had denied your card. FWIW, I find it unbelievably foul that your bank made you pay to stop checks that had been stolen. I’ve had to pay to stop individual checks that I had written, but when my wallet was stolen last year, my credit union asked for my check numbers and stopped them for no charge when I called to report the incident - I didn’t even have a police report yet. Another thing to consider with check-cards is their liability for theft and loss. I have no liability for charges made on lost/stolen cards (I think there are some reporting requirements, but I don’t remember the exact details offhand). I verified that specifically before getting the card, because when check-cards came out there was no regulation and many banks would bill the account-holder for all fraudulent charges. Considering the fees for stopped checks, it sounds like something your bank would do. I sympathize with your plight - I’ve operated on ATM cards for two decades and on my check-card since they came out. I’d miss my card if they took it away, especially since I rarely carry cash. It’s good to hear that you’ve worked so hard to get your financial situation straightened out. Do follow up on the credit report thing - creditors can really screw you over sometimes. As far as getting a card, if I were you, I’d shop around for another bank. You might not have any more luck elsewhere, but it never hurts to look. And it sure as hell doesn’t sound like your bank is doing you any favors. ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/38 "2001-11-01T00:22:51Z")
Well **Caiata,** I feel for anyone who has financial difficulties, but have absolutely no compassion for those who don’t learn and go on to repeat their mistakes. Thankfully, it looks like you don’t ever want to go back where you were (in financial terms) and are acting in a way to make sure you don’t. Good for you. When you get to Australia, things will be a little different. I spent most of this thread going WTF ??? every time the word cheque/check card came up, until one of the Dopers explained it. Sort of. 🙂 Aside : (extra points for spelling it how us Aussies do, but you’re not in Oz yet… wouldn’t it be easier to spell it the accepted way in your country, and change to “cheque” when you get here ?) Only old people and businesses use cheques still. For purchases, we use three major forms of payment. 1. Cash - do I have to explain ? 2. Debit card - a card linked to your bank account which allows you to withdraw money at ATM’s and pay for things at shops, using a PIN (a number) 3. Hi, Opal ! 4. Credit card - where you can pay for things by signing for them with money that you may or may not have. (but are supposed to pay back!) As you can see, we are pretty simple down here in Oz, hehehe. Hopefully there will be no problems with money while you are here. If there is, you seriously need financial help, as the exchange rate between USD and the South Pacific Peso is hilarious at the moment ! Let us know when you are coming ! 🙂 and good luck getting your credit sorted, though quite often they won’t listen and you’ll just have to play a waiting game… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/39 "2001-11-01T01:17:05Z")
That crybaby did not hand my ass to me. Read on! > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Caiata \* > **Monty** , have you not read the rest of the thread? Sure did. I noticed where you appear to say you recognize something’s your fault, you actually fail to say that the actual issue at hand, your financial irresponsibility (failure to pay your fucking bills on time, idjit) is the reall issue. > [@](#): > > Everyone else please skip along. This is going to be a very boring quoting of everything I have said in the thread. It’s a piss-poor rehasing of a lame-ass whine. > [@](#): > > _You say:_ > > That’s the first step in solving the problem, I hope you realize: recognition. The second step, evidently, is to accept your responsibility for that. You, again evidently, have yet to progress beyond the average 4-year old’s understanding of that concept: NONE. > [@](#): > > _I say:_ > > and yes, I know it was **my fault** for moving in with a deadbeat (though I did not know he was a deadbeat when we moved in together) and **my fault** for choosing the wrong bill to pay and **my fault** for not understanding the nature of the “work-study program” Gee. Regardless of whose fault it is you moved in with a deadbeat, it’s still your fault that you failed to take action on your outstanding debts. And not understanding the nature of the work-study program? Bullshit. Either (a) you read the application/information and failed to understand it, in which case you shouldn’t be in college, or (b) you failed to read the application/information before signing it/agreeing to it, in which case tough. Read stuff before you sign it. Contracts can be nasty things. > [@](#): > > _You say:_ > > When you applied for the loan, there’s a little thing known as the loan agreement. Whip out your copy (or if you irresponsibly tossed it out, read the bank’s copy). You will notice that nifty little bit in there where you agree to inform the bank of your change of address. In any event, the bank presumably still has the same address and you are not absolved from making your payments just because you didn’t receive a little reminder in the mail. The reminder is a convenience, a courtesy. It is not a necessity. > [@](#): > > _I said:_ > > “It was $20200 tuition and I was under the impression that they had covered all of it, **because I was never asked to sign any loan papers**.” > > and > > “Had I known that it was a “loan against my tuition” and not a job, I still would not have expected to pay that back because it was my (perhaps incorrect, but I read it in the description for federally-granted student loans) understanding that **they would not bill you for a student loan until you had no longer been taking classes for 6 months**.” > > and > > “The very moment they contacted me and explained the situation **(which was during the second semester of my classes in Indiana)** I paid them.” Oh, wah! Poor you. Isn’t it a pity someone expected a freaking college student to understand a program for which there are applicatins with, get this, information?! > [@](#): > > _You say:_ > > First rule of thumb with stolen checkbooks: CONTACT YOUR BANK THE SECOND YOU NOTICE IT’S STOLEN AND ISSUE STOP PAYMENTS FOR EACH AND EVERY CHECK THERE. > [@](#): > > _I say:_ > > “because they lied to me during the court appointment and the police report clearly showed **(along with my record saying that I had cancelled those cheques)**” > > and > > “(And might I add, the fees for stopping payment on 32 cheques is incredibly, excruciatingly painful. $12 a piece. Buh.)” Might want to consider changing banks. Mine doesn’t charge for stop-payments on stolen checks. > [@](#): > > _You said:_ > > Out here in California, it’s against the law to drive without insurance. Whatever your rationale is for not paying your insurance, you are not absolved from obeying the law. Over here in Indiana it is, too. Have I ever said it wasn’t? Have I ever contested that it was a bad thing to have done? No. Have I ever argued that I was in the wrong there? No. Again, let me quote myself: > [@](#): > > _I said:_ > > “I am not contesting that it was bad to do so. I am contesting that there could possibly have been $2300 in damage to their car (a tank) when my car had such little damage that I never even had to fix it.” > > and > > “I am not arguing that they made me pay the bills which I consider legitimate - **the $2300 for the car accident** ” > > and > > “I know that it was stupid to drive without insurance. I knew it at the time I made that bad decision.” [quote] _You say:_ Also, an illegal act. So you really shouldn’t expect any sympathy for that either. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > My checkbooks ran “100-149,” “150-199,” “200-249,” etc. There’s a thing known as “inclusive number” when you’re counting items with serial numbers on them: take the larger number, subtract from it the smaller number, AND THEN ADD ONE to get the actual number of itesm. Fascinating that. Or, perhaps in your “reality” there is such a thing as a physical zeroth item. > > Mine were 101 - 150, 151 - 200, 201 - 250, and so on and so forth. But you’re missing the point. Read what they said to me again. (And this is irreparably etched into my mind, because I was so pissed off about it. There is no possibility that I am mistaking what they said.) > > > [@](#): > > > > _I said:_ > > > > “It goes from **101** to **149** ”, they say. “ **150** - **200** are in the second book.” > > \*\*149 - 101 = 48 > 48 + 1 = 49 > > 200 - 150 = 50 > 50 + 1 = 51\*\* > > So, > > > [@](#): > > > > _When I said:_ > > > > Odd, that, how the first book you get has **49 cheques** and the **second has 51** - what the fuck kind of reality do they live in?!? > > You will see that I was in fact right, as proved by your very own formula. Cool. Glad at least one thing’s almost working out for you. Now start doing the responsible thing and don’t pay for the ones you know are stolen. Talk to the head cheese at the bank if you have to. > [@](#): > > _You say:_ > > Who did the police say was at fault in the collision? If 'twas you, tough. If 'twas the other individual, you’re liable for your lawbreaking, but not for the other individual’s faults. The police report says it is their fault. They got over into my lane without a turn signal notice and without checking their mirrors. They sideswiped my car in doing so. State law in Indiana apparently states that if you are not carrying insurance you are treated as if the accident was your fault. However, let me reiterate: > [@](#): > > _I said:_ > > I am contesting that there could possibly have been $2300 in damage to their car (a tank) when my car had such little damage that I never even had to fix it. Well, there’s the whole bit about labor charges, no doubt. You, if at fault (even if the law presumes you to be at fault for being on the road without insurance), are responsible for not only the cost of the repairs themselves, but also for the cost of the labor attached to said repairs. {Snip a lot of whining} Well, gee. Places where I’ve done business, and even one place where I worked (a collection agency), advised folks to announce change of addresses like that. After all, it’s still your freaking responsibility to pay the bill even if you don’t get the damn bill in the damn mail. > [@](#): > > Now, since I am going to be late to work if I prattle on any longer, let me just say: > > “In short, you can suck my used tampon.” It’s probably a blame sight better than haning out with you. God only knows who’s going to get stuck with the bloody bill. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723/40 "2001-11-01T01:19:10Z")
Drat. May I have an “assist” on the coding. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-rant-tm-creditors-are-assholes/90723.md?page=3)