# My first resume **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 21, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677 "2012-11-21T02:52:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/21 "2012-11-21T03:57:45Z")
If you’re reading resumes you want a pretty simple chronological list of positions with named technical skills like Python and Excel, and some specific information as I mentioned above. When I see a skills ordered resume I tend to think the actual work experience is lacking. Since you’d be doing this make a move across fields it would help to have it more targeted for a specific job. For instance, your qualifications would look good for a corporate training position. So “Explained unfamiliar technical and abstract concepts enabling hundreds of individuals to demonstrate mastery of those concepts” could be turned into “Conducted training sessions in technical and abstract concepts, _this specific technical concept_, _that particular abstract concept_. _This many_ day sessions, with \*this many \*people in each class”. You need easily recognized valuable skills to be seen. Still not getting the long version up, I’ll try again later. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/22 "2012-11-21T03:59:08Z")
Missed the edit… **TriPolar** makes very good points, you need to be specific about what you did and don’t undersell yourself. I’ll give you an example; My brothers girlfriend was trying to put together a resume and for her last job she just put down **Dental Office Admin - Start date to End Date** After I talked to her for a bit it included stuff like **Responsible for accurate billing and accounts receivable for over 2,000 patients annually, representing over $500,000 in revenue.** The devil is in the details. One more thing, don’t get discouraged. Writing resumes sucks and it’s hard. If it wasn’t there wouldn’t be agencies willing to let you pay them to do it for you. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/23 "2012-11-21T03:59:14Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Oh yeah, I understand you’re just offering opinions and I really appreciate it. > > What I was trying to ask is, why were you so interested in figuring out the timeline as you read it? In other words, why is it important to you, when reading an individual accomplishment, to be able to fit it mentally into an already-established timeline? > > I’m asking because I imagine the answer will help me understand my audience better. The first reason I want a timeline is to figure out if you’re someone who’s had a lot of jobs in a short time…that can be a warning sign. Also, seeing a progression in responsibility can be meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/24 "2012-11-21T04:00:56Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > What I was trying to ask is, why were you so interested in figuring out the timeline as you read it? In other words, why is it important to you, when reading an individual accomplishment, to be able to fit it mentally into an already-established timeline? Speaking for myself, I want to see growth and development of skills and abilities over time. If it’s not chronological that might be difficult to determine. You want the most important work you’ve done to be the most recent. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/25 "2012-11-21T04:05:22Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Oh yeah, I understand you’re just offering opinions and I really appreciate it. > > What I was trying to ask is, why were you so interested in figuring out the timeline as you read it? In other words, why is it important to you, when reading an individual accomplishment, to be able to fit it mentally into an already-established timeline? > > I’m asking because I imagine the answer will help me understand my audience better. I’d like to look at a resume and determine from most recent: Where did you work? From when until when? What was your job title? What were you responsible for? What did you accomplish? Education and training should have its own spot too. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/26 "2012-11-21T04:07:37Z")
The term for “skills-based” resume I’ve heard and seen most often is “functional resume,” and the potential problem with it is it may be seen by hiring managers as an attempt to hide something. The chronological model **zoid** presented is the one most often preferred, though that doesn’t mean a functional resume is automatically wrong. I have a couple of small tips:[ul][li]In your header, it’s entirely unnecessary to label your address, phone, and e-mail fields (e.g. “Address: 123 Main Street”;“E-mail: [joeschmoe@gmail.com](mailto:joeschmoe@gmail.com)”)[\*]The preferred format for your bulleted lists is the C-A-R model, which stands for Challenge, Action, Result - a short description of the problem, the action you took to address it, and the result (with metrics if possible).[/ul]You can also eliminate the C and just present the Action and Result (Here’s one of mine for an example: “Wrote manual for DTC Reconciliation and implemented training program, improving accuracy of break sheet and reducing aging differences.”) List items should start with action verbs in past tense, unless you’re describing a current position.[/li] Oh, and always, _always_ double check spelling. Minor mistakes can be the difference between a second (or longer) look and an automatic rejection. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/27 "2012-11-21T04:09:01Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > When I see a skills ordered resume I tend to think the actual work experience is lacking. > . Well… actual work experience _is_ lacking! And I would not say I have a very strong progression of responsibilities. In the last school year I’ve gained some responsibilities through committee work and all this cyclical accreditation and program review stuff we’re doing right now. So a progression is beginning in a sense… but remember, my whole history, with one brief exception as a freelance grant writer, has been in the academy. We don’t really do “progression of responsibility.” You’re just kind of always responsible for the same kind of thing, for decades. Heck, at lots of schools, the chair position rotates every year. When you see a skills ordered resume, do you trash it? Or does it depend on the position? Or do you read it and consider it just like all others? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/28 "2012-11-21T04:12:22Z")
> [@Just\_Ed](#): > > The term for “skills-based” resume I’ve heard and seen most often is “functional resume,” and the potential problem with it is it may be seen by hiring managers as an attempt to hide something. The chronological model **zoid** presented is the one most often preferred, though that doesn’t mean a functional resume is automatically wrong. IYO when is it right? [quote] I have a couple of small tips:[list][li]In your header, it’s entirely unnecessary to label your address, phone, and e-mail fields (e.g. “Address: 123 Main Street”;“E-mail: [joeschmoe@gmail.com](mailto:joeschmoe@gmail.com)”)[/li][/quote] Don’t worry, they’re not labeled in the resume. What you’re seeing is just me having replaced the name with the words “name name” etc, to anonymize it. [quote] [li]The preferred format for your bulleted lists is the C-A-R model, which stands for Challenge, Action, Result [/li][/quote] That’s extremely helpful. I can’t presently think of a way to characterize teaching in a classroom as answering a “challenge” but I’ll keep mulling it over. (One thing might be to get more detailed about what I actually did in the classroom to meet individual teaching challenges. But I’m trying to follow the advice I’ve read elsewhere and in this thread to keep things from sounding too teaching-specific.) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/29 "2012-11-21T04:14:04Z")
I’ll make a traditional resume soon (probably not til after Thanksgiving) and let you take a look at it. I don’t think it’s going to look good though! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/30 "2012-11-21T04:17:50Z")
Anyone having trouble seeing the files when you click on the link, have you tried hitting “download” at the top right after clicking the link? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/31 "2012-11-21T04:24:01Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Well… actual work experience _is_ lacking! > > And I would not say I have a very strong progression of responsibilities. In the last school year I’ve gained some responsibilities through committee work and all this cyclical accreditation and program review stuff we’re doing right now. So a progression is beginning in a sense… but remember, my whole history, with one brief exception as a freelance grant writer, has been in the academy. We don’t really do “progression of responsibility.” You’re just kind of always responsible for the same kind of thing, for decades. Heck, at lots of schools, the chair position rotates every year. > > When you see a skills ordered resume, do you trash it? Or does it depend on the position? Or do you read it and consider it just like all others? Ok, you can expand on those responsibilities. Were you involved in scheduling, work reviews, interviewing new staff, any periodic tasks like accounting for materials, or closing out year end results? When you attach the numbers to mundane tasks they sound more important. And even if there’s no great progression in responsibilities you can still show a progression in your skills growth over time. The number of pages thing has no settled answer. Agencies tend to either compress or expand resumes. Since they’re communicated by email the number of pages doesn’t matter that much. In the past a one page resume was ideal. With more pages they can get lost or seperated. Putting one page through a copy machine is a trivial task. Now that they’re communicated online it shouldn’t matter as much, but people still want to see the key points right on the first page near the top or they won’t look further down. And if those keys points are on the first page at the top they don’t need to look further down and often won’t. Since you don’t have an immediate need for this you can develop it over time. But it’s a good idea to keep an up to date resume ready to send out with minor adjustments if you get a lead on a good job. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/32 "2012-11-21T04:28:14Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > IYO when is it right? It’s hard to say, since so much of it is specific to the job and the industry one is applying for. It is recommended (as far as I know) to use a functional resume when you’re switching career paths, but even (maybe even especially) in those cases, you have to tailor your history very specifically to the opportunity to try to match the requirements as closely as possible. > [@](#): > > That’s extremely helpful. I can’t presently think of a way to characterize teaching in a classroom as answering a “challenge” but I’ll keep mulling it over. (One thing might be to get more detailed about what I actually did in the classroom to meet individual teaching challenges. But I’m trying to follow the advice I’ve read elsewhere and in this thread to keep things from sounding too teaching-specific.) What helped me in the process was two questions an “outplacement” coach asked repeatedly: “Why did you do that?” and “What was the outcome?” or “What would have happened if you didn’t do that?” Some of your items are already close to this format - the line beginning "Explained unfamiliar technical and abstract concepts enabling . . . " is pretty good (Action - Explained; Result - Enabled). “Served on committees to review policies and processes.” not so much. Why were the policies and processes reviewed? Were they revised and improved by your involvement? Was the end result a policy more in line with current regulation or university by-laws? (Just throwing out food for thought - not trying to hector you with questions.) ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/33 "2012-11-21T04:36:02Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Anyone having trouble seeing the files when you click on the link, have you tried hitting “download” at the top right after clicking the link? I don’t even get that button, just a “mobile preview”…I’m assuming it’s some kind of ipad compatibility issue. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/34 "2012-11-21T04:40:09Z")
> [@Just\_Ed](#): > > (Just throwing out food for thought - not trying to hector you with questions.) Your comments are extremely helpful! ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/35 "2012-11-21T04:47:24Z")
I said above I’ll make a traditional resume after Thanksgiving and I will, but I’ve now gone around reading different discussions on the topic. One conclusion I draw is that in a room containing five people in charge of hiring, there will be six opinions expressed about this matter. 😉 But another more serious conclusion I draw is that my actual work history is one which will probably get my resume trashed nearly unread by anyone who would insist on a chronological resume. My history just doesn’t have what those guys are looking for. (The right job titles, progression in responsibility, low number of positions per time period, etc.) In other words, if they saw my skill resume they’d say “make a chron resume!” then upon reading the chron resume they’d say “why the heck are you even applying?” So there’s not much of a point. If I have a chance, it will be with someone who doesn’t mind a skills-based resume, because it will have to be with someone who is hiring for a position which they understand to be open to people with a background like mine–a monolithic, progressionless one with job titles that don’t immediately match what they’re looking for. And in such a case, they’ll be more interested in seeing what I can do based on what I’ve accomplished, rather than seeing where I’ve worked and when. So I currently think in the end what I would send out would be the skills based one. But I don’t mean to say I’m closing off further thought about that issue. ETA: Either way, though, I am glad you guys brought the potential dangers to my attention. I thought it was just another way to do a resume, didn’t realize there was controversy over it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/36 "2012-11-21T06:00:06Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Should work now. > > Three of you have commented on the format now, so I’ll think about it. But resumes ordered by skill rather than by position are on display at every “how to write a resume” site I remember looking at today so I’m surprised if it seems so out of the ordinary. Do you want a job? Or a prize from a “How To Do a Resume” website? Because I’ve never seen these so-called “skills resumes” anywhere except those websites. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/37 "2012-11-21T07:00:52Z")
I’ve been doing a lot of hiring lately, and have been looking at a lot of resumes. Which you should use depends on the job you’re applying for. First, length. The only thing that matters with length is the amount of fat on the resume. There shouldn’t be any. The long one has a lot. Hundreds of students learned close reading? Maybe thousands didn’t. 😉 The short one works better in your case, but I’ve seen long ones where I read every word. I prefer education and experience to be split, and the education part should be short, just with school, degree, and graduation date, and name of thesis if any. I’d put skills first if they are more important than experience for the job you are applying for. I interviewed a contractor for a database job where here skills dominated her work experience, and that resume worked. As a contractor I just looked at the time between gigs, which was admirably short. For me the experience part sounded like gobbledy gook, but in your field it might make perfect sense. It again depends on who you are sending it to. For my jobs the Excel part would not be very impressive, but if you are sending it to computer illiterate people it might count a lot. Remember, resumes are not interviews. If they leave the reader wanting more, and thus to talk to you, they win. But if they promise more than you got you’re dead meat. And if you write five lines about one line of accomplishments it is going to show. I think the one page rule is to try to prevent people from padding the resume, but it doesn’t apply if you have three pages of real accomplishments. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/38 "2012-11-27T20:45:43Z")
With respect to the question of how brief or detailed to be (or how best to somehow be both), can you guys point to examples online of resumes that do a good job on this score? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/39 "2012-11-27T20:50:51Z")
BTW there are a plethora of websites claiming to do the job of matching potential employees with potential employers. What are the _good_ websites, if any? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677/40 "2012-11-27T21:11:32Z")
“A self-motivated motivator”? Seriously? I’m throwing it away once I hit that point. Scrap the entire Summary, and if you’re reaching for content, put in a VERY specific Goal (“Project Coordinator seeking a position in Project Management, ideally working with a team of at least four individuals in the education field.” Your verb tenses are all over the place - they need to be consistent, otherwise people’s eyes start glazing over and they throw it away. If you’re going to go with a skills-based resume, you need to at least make them all relevant. Why would I hire someone who can write information packets \*and \*design algorithms? That’s not a skillset combination anyone is looking for. If I managed to make it past your Summary and got through the whole thing, what sort of job would you easily slip into? I don’t really have any idea - hopefully the HR person you send it to will. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-resume/641677.md?page=3)