# My First Thanksgiving As The Chef - Help! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 13, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016 "2010-10-13T16:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/81 "2010-10-21T23:28:45Z")
I don’t bother brining; I’ve never had a problem with moistness (I use fresh or frozen non-injected turkeys), just lucky I guess. Gravy was out of a jar since I didn’t collect any drippings. Stuffing was sage-thyme type, but no seasonings in the other side dishes other than salt, pepper and butter. The turkey tasted too “rich” for the gravy. Same thing with sammiches, when stuffing and cranberry sauce were crammed in too. Not that it was a “not the same” reaction, more like the flavor combination just didn’t work for me. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/82 "2010-10-22T01:12:38Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I’ve never noticed an issue with the gravy, to be honest. I should add I am English, and **English gravy and US gravy are different thing** s. I also stuff the cavity of the turkey with oranges with the skins cut through in multiple places, and that might help lower the salty taste of the juices. Please explain, I’ve never heard this before! I know when Italian-Americans say gravy they often mean marinara sauce. But what is English gravy? And while we’re on it, is it the same as “drippings?” ---
**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/83 "2010-10-22T02:56:46Z")
I think this has kinda gone off topic for the OP’s post. But hey, so is mine! As I said, I’m doing a turkey breast (got a rub recipe and checked the timing). For the pesceatarians in the family, there will be grilled salmon. (For which I’ve been collecting ideas for the salmon griller–no way I’m doing this all on my own) Is there a vegetarian recipe for gravy? I’m planning on using veggie stock for the stuffing and mashed potatoes to be across the board on the sides. (No probs with milk/cream issues) I wasn’t planning on doing anykind of giblety thing what with the turkey breast. Any tips would be great! (And, you know–I know they cheat. But not a lot and I’d like to make it pretty guilt free for them.) ---
**Author:** ![BlueKangaroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@BlueKangaroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueKangaroo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/84 "2010-10-22T02:59:18Z")
Hey, **pbbth** , I had [this same question](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=396690) a few years ago. I’m about to do my second Thanksgiving ever, so I’m watching your thread with interest for new tips. I will say that [Rick’s tip](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=396475) for icing the breast worked spectacularly the one year I did a turkey. I definitely plan to do it again this year. ETA: **BrassyPhrase** , there’s some tips for vegetarian gravy/sauce in the first thread I linked to, I’m pretty sure. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/85 "2010-10-22T14:18:20Z")
One really good thing to do, since we aren’t supposed to stuff the bird anymore, is to cram 2 or 3 apples into the turkey while you cook it. This helps to keep everything nice and moist and also helps keep the heat evenly distributed (because you don’t have this big cavity of nothing but air in the middle). I like to take the stuffing that I have made on the side and put it in the bird while it is resting. It satisfies the bacteriological concerns but allows for a more traditional presentation. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/86 "2010-10-22T14:52:43Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Most of them have those popup timers and when those pop, it’s done and not overcooked. I don’t mean to pick on anyone, but this popped out at me. Do not rely on the popup timer in the bird (if it has one). They work on simple temperature theory: the spring or glue holding the popup down melts at 180 degrees, causing the thing to pop up. However, your turkey will be dry dry dry by 180, especially after resting (the temp continues to rise for a bit after you take it out of the oven). Most recommendations seem to be to cook turkey to 165. A far, far better option is use a dedicated meat thermometer in the thigh - take the turkey out when it reads 155 - 160. The bird’s internal temp will still continue to rise as it rests and will hit the intended 165 with no problem. You might need to buy a meat thermometer, but it’s a good purchase - you can use it for anything. Instant read ones are nice, as are ones with a long oven proof cord that leads to the readout - you can leave the probe in the bird in the oven and still see the temp. And they’re not expensive; Target has them for $15 or so. There’s a lot of discussion about different temps for white v. dark meat, and some practices for getting both to be done at the same time (flipping the bird, icing the breast, etc). I’m not the expert for what should be done here. But don’t rely on the popup. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/87 "2010-10-22T17:45:29Z")
> [@DonLogan](#): > > Gravy was out of a jar since I didn’t collect any drippings. Stuffing was sage-thyme type, but no seasonings in the other side dishes other than salt, pepper and butter. > > The turkey tasted too “rich” for the gravy. Same thing with sammiches, when stuffing and cranberry sauce were crammed in too. Not that it was a “not the same” reaction, more like the flavor combination just didn’t work for me. Yeah, I could see that. Smoking gives meat so much intensity and complexity, it can massively overpower other dishes pretty easily. That’s a lot of the reason we use so much ginger and clove and paprika and cumin. Well, that, and because we just really like those spices anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/88 "2010-10-22T17:55:40Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > I don’t mean to pick on anyone, but this popped out at me. Do not rely on the popup timer in the bird (if it has one). They work on simple temperature theory: the spring or glue holding the popup down melts at 180 degrees, causing the thing to pop up. However, your turkey will be dry dry dry by 180, especially after resting (the temp continues to rise for a bit after you take it out of the oven). Most recommendations seem to be to cook turkey to 165. > > A far, far better option is use a dedicated meat thermometer in the thigh - take the turkey out when it reads 155 - 160. The bird’s internal temp will still continue to rise as it rests and will hit the intended 165 with no problem. You might need to buy a meat thermometer, but it’s a good purchase - you can use it for anything. Instant read ones are nice, as are ones with a long oven proof cord that leads to the readout - you can leave the probe in the bird in the oven and still see the temp. And they’re not expensive; Target has them for $15 or so. > > There’s a lot of discussion about different temps for white v. dark meat, and some practices for getting both to be done at the same time (flipping the bird, icing the breast, etc). I’m not the expert for what should be done here. But don’t rely on the popup. Maybe… but a brined bird has some flexibility built in, regarding risk of dried-out meat. We’ve never had an unpleasant bird using the popup timer (and I’ve got some chicken in the fridge that if anything seems _too_ moist - almost raw in places, though we don’t seem to have gotten sick from it). It may make a difference if you cook the bird at a high temperature vs the traditional 325 degrees. The chicken I’m referring to was cooked at 450 and I’ve heard similar recommendations these days for turkey. I’ve used meat thermometers and tried taking the bird out when they say 165 and had the meat be bloody and raw-looking. Maybe it’s a bad thermometer, but I have several and they all give similar readings. Having seen what chicken sushi does to someone (an acquaintance spent some time in a hospital after accidentally eating some in Japan), I’m terrified of underdone poultry. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/89 "2010-10-22T18:02:55Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > … > For gravy: > 12 TBSP flour… > Gravy: > Melt 12 TBSP reserved turkey fat in a skillet… Just wanted to double check: do you truly mean TWELVE tablespoons of these? as in 6 ounces, 3/4 of a cup? Do you really get that much _fat_ from roasting a few turkey legs? (I usually don’t get nearly that much even from the whole turkey). ---
**Author:** ![BlueKangaroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@BlueKangaroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueKangaroo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/90 "2010-10-24T01:59:37Z")
Okay, I have a question for bird briners. We’ve just been informed that our turkey will arrive the day before, fresh. Do you all think this will be sufficient time to brine the sucker, or are we out of luck there? If we’re out of luck, does anyone else have advice for not screwing up a turkey? This is only my second one. ---
**Author:** ![rackensack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@rackensack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rackensack)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/91 "2010-10-24T04:04:19Z")
> [@BlueKangaroo](#): > > Okay, I have a question for bird briners. We’ve just been informed that our turkey will arrive the day before, fresh. Do you all think this will be sufficient time to brine the sucker, or are we out of luck there? > > If we’re out of luck, does anyone else have advice for not screwing up a turkey? This is only my second one. If you decide not to dry it overnight in the fridge, you should be fine – just start brining it when you get it home, let it sit overnight in the brine, and take it out and dry the outside with paper towel when you’re ready to cook it. Otherwise, it depends on how big the bird is, what time you get it, and what time you plan to eat it. If it’s on the smallish side (say, under 14 pounds or so) and you get it early on Wednesday (say, before noon) and start brining it right away, you can probably take it out of the brine late Wednesday night (the later the better) and dry the skin in the fridge the rest of Wednesday night and be ready to start cooking it relatively early on Thursday. Even for a larger bird that’s fresh or fully thawed, more than about 8 hours in the brining solution isn’t going to make a lot of difference, so do what you can – get it in the brine as soon as you can, let it stay there for 8-10 hours, and then if you have time left let the skin dry out in whatever time you have left before it has to go in the oven. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/92 "2010-10-25T14:10:28Z")
> [@BlueKangaroo](#): > > Okay, I have a question for bird briners. We’ve just been informed that our turkey will arrive the day before, fresh. Do you all think this will be sufficient time to brine the sucker, or are we out of luck there? > > If we’re out of luck, does anyone else have advice for not screwing up a turkey? This is only my second one. That’s plenty of time. Our recipe says to brine 12 to 24 hours. We typically prepare the brine on Monday night and let it chill in the fridge for 24 hours, then get the bird Tuesday night and plop it right on in. So that winds up being more like 36 hours but I’ve certainly done it 24 hours and had it be perfectly tasty. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/93 "2010-10-25T14:12:09Z")
> [@rackensack](#): > > …then if you have time left let the skin dry out in whatever time you have left before it has to go in the oven. OK, dumb question here: what do you find the skin-drying time does? Just makes the skin more crispy? does it affect the meat? ---
**Author:** ![rackensack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@rackensack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rackensack)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/94 "2010-10-25T17:40:38Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > OK, dumb question here: what do you find the skin-drying time does? Just makes the skin more crispy? does it affect the meat? Yeah, basically. Doesn’t affect the meat much. If the skin still has a lot of water in it, it won’t brown as well; it’ll steam more than browning and will be paler and not as crisp, but the meat inside the skin will still enjoy the benefits of brining. Not a huge deal either way, but if you really want to wow the guests, having a nicely browned crisp skin beats pale and soggy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/95 "2010-10-25T18:06:40Z")
Tip: Blow dryer. ---
**Author:** ![BlueKangaroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@BlueKangaroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueKangaroo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/96 "2010-10-25T19:56:53Z")
Thanks, all! The turkey will be between 15 and 20 lbs, because we have had a surprising response to our invitation. I can get it as early as 7am on Wednesday, but since I’ll be going an hour away to pick it up, I expect it to be closer to about 10am. Also, I do have a blow-dryer. This could get interesting. And fun. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/97 "2010-10-25T20:35:47Z")
> [@DonLogan](#): > > Interesting side track about smoking the turkey. Smoked turkey is awesome, but I smoked a turkey once at holiday time, and it just didn’t taste right with the other normal side dishes, especially the gravy. Well I tend to serve it Friday, with leftovers. It isn’t part of a formal big sit down dinner on Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/98 "2010-10-25T20:38:32Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Please explain, I’ve never heard this before! I know when Italian-Americans say gravy they often mean marinara sauce. But what is English gravy? And while we’re on it, is it the same as “drippings?” Drippings are the fat that makes gravy. I have never seen a British person use cream in gravy like seems to be common in the states. Gravy at home is some of the fat of the hunk o’beast, heated in the roasting pan, with flour whisked in to make a roux and to incorporate all the burned scrapings from the pan, then stock added and whisked till the right consistency is reached. In my experience American gravy is more of a sauce, British gravy is more of the juices, a little thickened. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/99 "2010-10-26T04:11:18Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Drippings are the fat that makes gravy. I have never seen a British person use cream in gravy like seems to be common in the states. Gravy at home is some of the fat of the hunk o’beast, heated in the roasting pan, with flour whisked in to make a roux and to incorporate all the burned scrapings from the pan, then stock added and whisked till the right consistency is reached. I _think_ that would be a [veloute](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velout%C3%A9_sauce): fat, flour and stock. > [@](#): > > In my experience American gravy is more of a sauce, British gravy is more of the juices, a little thickened. Again, I _think_ (because I am no food expert) that would be a [Bechamel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9chamel): fat, flour and dairy. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016/100 "2010-10-26T13:39:22Z")
> [@villa](#): > > In my experience American gravy is more of a sauce, British gravy is more of the juices, a little thickened. In my American culinary world, there are two completely different items that are called “gravy”, brown gravy and white gravy. Brown gravy is indeed just the cooking juices, plus maybe some vegetables, thickened with corn starch or flour. White gravy, or sawmill gravy, is basically bechamel. You start with some fat in the pan–preferably left over from cooking pork products–thicken it with flour, then pour in milk. It’s usually heavily seasoned with black pepper, cayenne pepper, or hot sauce, and in the best of all possible worlds it has bits of sausage in it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-first-thanksgiving-as-the-chef-help/557016.md?page=4)