# My friend believes he is a prophet **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 12, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972 "2012-07-12T05:16:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/61 "2012-07-13T22:29:40Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > He seemed to expect me to “see the light” after a very brief and weak explanation. I would say that is the typical ‘zeal of the newly converted’ rather than a sign of a serious lapse in judgement. It happens all the time to people who find religion. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/62 "2012-07-13T22:45:44Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I should also point out that another reason this whole thing worries me is my friend’s poor judgement in expecting me to accept what he’s saying. He knows me well and therefore should really, really not be expecting me to believe what he’s saying without some seriously good evidence. He seemed to expect me to “see the light” after a very brief and weak explanation. I’d say he is looking more for acceptance for who he is and confirmation of his belief to help him over the insecurities of this new path he is on. As part of that there may be a expectation of ‘can’t you see this too, it’s so obvious.’ But that’s something he is going to have to learn to get over. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but it is rare. Wanting acceptance is normal and wanting approval is also normal. Expecting you to ‘see the light’ I would say is also normal in the ‘expectation’ and also the disappointment when you don’t ‘see the light’. As you need to be true to yourself and the belief system you have build, so does he. He needs to accept you for who you are if he is ever to be accepted for who he is and that is a learning process. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/63 "2012-07-13T22:54:55Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > On a separate note he’s volunteering a bit too much information about things that I’d generally expect to stay private even among the closest friends (at least for males). Could this be a symptom of anything? Yes, sometimes manic people will be very impulsive and it is very common for them to be sexually inappropriate. Some people with mental illness never become dangerous, sure. However, there are enough cases of people with mental illness behaving dangerously (such as [John Hinckley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckley,_Jr.), [Jared Loughner](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner), and [Seung Hui Cho](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho) that I would consider it very irresponsible for anyone who hasn’t even met this guy to try to talk you out of trying to get him to see a mental health professional. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/64 "2012-07-13T23:02:05Z")
**Bozuit** You said in your OP “he needs to know I at least 49% believe him before I can see it anyway.” So he does recognize that these new beliefs may seem strange and is cautious about revealing too much. Sounds like his judgement isn’t that bad. **LavenderViolet** I disagree rather profoundly. The general feeling in our society seems to be ‘any one who believes something we find strange should be locked up in a psych ward’. Again, he seems to be no threat to himself or others. After being turned over to a mental health professional ( who will likely have him locked up for 72 hours for evaluation rather than risk liability in just letting him leave), he will feel angry and betrayed. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/65 "2012-07-13T23:06:25Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > No. . .because pretty much everyone does. What kanicbird has said in this thread has made sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/66 "2012-07-13T23:09:28Z")
I don’t want or expect him to be locked up. This is pretty mild so I’m hoping dealing with it will either involve him getting some kind of prescription to help tone down this behaviour a little bit, or even simply getting him to realize how he is coming across and learn to moderate it himself. If he is bipolar then I expect it would be helpful for him to understand the condition and be able to react appropriately to however it makes him feel. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/67 "2012-07-13T23:11:51Z")
Honestly I don’t think that there are drugs that can deal with delusions. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/68 "2012-07-13T23:17:51Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I don’t want or expect him to be locked up. I’m very happy to hear that you don’t want him locked up. Speaking as somebody who signed what I thought was a routine medical form and found myself committed and unable to leave the facility, and as somebody who’s had friends locked up for 72 hours based on neighbor’s complaints and such, I **DO** expect him to be locked up if you take him to a professional. > [@](#): > > This is pretty mild so I’m hoping dealing with it will either involve him getting some kind of prescription to help tone down this behaviour a little bit, He thinks he’s fine. Why would he take medication that will alter his brain chemistry and probably has serious side effects? > [@](#): > > or even simply getting him to realize how he is coming across and learn to moderate it himself. This approach may have some success. If you say you’re concerned about his actions, he may well change the way he acts. > [@](#): > > If he is bipolar then I expect it would be helpful for him to understand the condition and be able to react appropriately to however it makes him feel. Look up the DSM IV online. If he doesn’t think the diagnosis fits when you (a friend who knows him well) says it, odds are he won’t accept it when a stranger says it. ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/69 "2012-07-13T23:28:12Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Where do you draw the line between his friends beliefs and the more conventionally religious? I can find posts on this board where Christians claim to see visions in church or otherwise, they believe them to be divinely delivered. Much as I despise religion, the difference is that people reporting religious visions are modest. They are simply observers. People suffering delusions are grandiose, important, placing themselves at the centre of attention. See the difference? “I had a vision; be amazed! I am a prophet! The vision? Uh, well… I’ll give you the details later. But listen! Did you know I can fly?” Not even the televangelists are that bad. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/70 "2012-07-13T23:32:33Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > He thinks he’s fine. Why would he take medication that will alter his brain chemistry and probably has serious side effects? I like to think that if I were ever seeing or hearing or believing things that are illogical, as real as they would seem I’d be able to seriously consider the possibility that it’s all in my head. Of course I don’t know if that would really be the case. But he even said himself that the only thing we can be sure of is that we are real. I think he can understand that anything he sees or feels could be invented by his brain. However, since he considers this a positive thing (rather than hearing a voice telling him to burn stuff… or something) he may decide to continue as if it were real anyway. If he’s got a religion that makes him happier then, why not? But if it seriously affects the decisions he makes in life (like dropping his career plans to “save the world”) then I don’t know. > [@DocCathode](#): > > Look up the DSM IV online. If he doesn’t think the diagnosis fits when you (a friend who knows him well) says it, odds are he won’t accept it when a stranger says it. Well I should _hope_ a psychiatrist’s diagnosis will carry more weight than my opinion. Has anyone know if it might be possible for me to see a doctor on his behalf, describe how he’s acting as best as I can and get some kind of tentative diagnosis which might be more convincing to him than “Well I looked it up on Wikipedia and…”? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/71 "2012-07-13T23:33:29Z")
**Bozuit** Here’s the Wikipedia article on Bipolar [Bipolar disorder - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder) it’s a place to start ETA **Bozuit’s** post and his mention of Wikipedia were not there when I hit the submit button. D’oh! > [@FuzzyOgre](#): > > Much as I despise religion, the difference is that people reporting religious visions are modest. They are simply observers. People suffering delusions are grandiose, important, placing themselves at the centre of attention. > > See the difference? “I had a vision; be amazed! I am a prophet! The vision? Uh, well… I’ll give you the details later. But listen! Did you know I can fly?” > > Not even the televangelists are that bad. So how exactly would you classify [Jerusalem Syndrome](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome)? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/72 "2012-07-14T00:03:19Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Has anyone know if it might be possible for me to see a doctor on his behalf, describe how he’s acting as best as I can and get some kind of tentative diagnosis which might be more convincing to him than “Well I looked it up on Wikipedia and…”? Where do you live? Here in Philly there’s at least one mental health crisis line. I recommend googling for such a thing in your area. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/73 "2012-07-14T00:37:49Z")
I would suggest to your friend he might want to see a doctor to make sure the problem isn’t something physical – sometimes things like brain tumors can cause symptoms like these, can they not? It’s not likely, but I think it would be a good idea, just in case. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Kanicbird** , has some rather, um, “unique” beliefs. I suggest you take his suggestions with a grain of salt. 😉 And good luck with your friend. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Because you disagree with me? No, just that your religious beliefs tend to be somewhat well, like I said, “unique”. It’s more like, you think everything has to be connected to religion, when it should be first checked out to see if it’s not medical. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/74 "2012-07-14T00:50:04Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I would suggest to your friend he might want to see a doctor to make sure the problem isn’t something physical – sometimes things like brain tumors can cause symptoms like these, can they not? It’s not likely, but I think it would be a good idea, just in case. I doubt it’s a brain tumor. But, the early twenties is the right age for [schizophrenia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia) to manifest. I’m sure there are a few other likely candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Tad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tad)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/75 "2012-07-14T00:51:52Z")
Sounds like he’d fit in just fine with other Scientologists. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/76 "2012-07-14T01:06:08Z")
Thanks for all your replies so far everyone. It’s incredibly helpful to have smart people to ask in a semi-anonymous way. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/77 "2012-07-14T01:17:40Z")
Further advice- In college, I met a man who thought he was a werewolf. Again, I exaggerate not one whit. At first, I thought if I could make him see the logical contradictions in his delusions he would somehow snap out of it. This approach simply does not work. As time passed, I realized that if I really wanted to help him I should focus on his actions- things like getting him to say hello instead of woof as a greeting, being more aware of social conventions, that sort of thing. I had some success with this approach. If your friend thinks he’s had a great revelation, odds are you’re not going to be able to touch that belief. So focus on his actions- not telling you about his genitalia, being sure to take care of himself (eating regularly, sleeping the right amount, bathing etc). Moreover, make it _your_ problem. Stress that even if he feels fine, you are worried and could he do these things as a favor to you. ETA- The wolfman is one of the few college friends I still keep in touch with. I actually have to call him tomorrow and get a current e-mail address. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/78 "2012-07-14T02:37:45Z")
Almost forgot > [@Guinastasia](#): > > – sometimes things like brain tumors can cause symptoms like these, can they not? [Arnold] It’s not a tumah! It’s not a tumah at all![/Arnold] ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/79 "2012-07-14T04:51:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I should also point out that another reason this whole thing worries me is my friend’s poor judgement in expecting me to accept what he’s saying. He knows me well and therefore should really, really not be expecting me to believe what he’s saying without some seriously good evidence. He seemed to expect me to “see the light” after a very brief and weak explanation. Big red flag for me. He’s possibly, trying, in his own demented way, to reach out to you specifically. If he’s in the throes of an onset mental illness, and can sense it himself, perhaps not control it, then telling you his feelings kind of makes some sense. You’re maybe the one person he’s counting on to say, “What’s wrong with you?”, rather than shine him on as just being weird today. But back to the point. The point is that **Kancidbird** can’t diagnose him as just a ‘seeker’ any better than those who thought, bipolar, psychotic, etc. But a Dr. can. Get him to a Dr. In my experience life tends to shower you with pebbles before smiting you with a boulder. Ignore the pebbles at your peril. If you hear tomorrow, your friend has, well and truly, gone off the rails, has hurt himself or another, posed a threat in some way, will you feel like you knew something wasn’t right, but didn’t want to think it was _serious_ mental illness? If you’re truly his friend, his best interest should trump any reticence you may have, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972/80 "2012-07-14T05:08:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I would suggest to your friend he might want to see a doctor to make sure the problem isn’t something physical – sometimes things like brain tumors can cause symptoms like these, can they not? It’s not likely, but I think it would be a good idea, just in case. I had a further thought- A standard psych evaluation would not detect a brain tumor anyway. You chat with a shrink. You may look at inkblots. You’ll be asked to fill out a bunch of surveys rating statements from ‘strongly agree’ to ‘strongly disagree’. But, you won’t get a CAT scan, MRI, or anything similar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-friend-believes-he-is-a-prophet/627972.md?page=5)