# My Gardener Needs To Be Kicked In His Chalupa's **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595 "2004-08-12T21:18:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/41 "2004-08-13T16:11:37Z")
> [@tsarina](#): > > No, just the ones who are nasty little bitches. But thanks for thinking of me! 😉 > > _walks away humming “Helter Skelter”_ Be nice to Sharon Tate! She just had a hard day reenacting the Valley of the Dolls. ---
**Author:** ![Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazon_Floozy_Goddess)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/42 "2004-08-13T16:38:56Z")
It’s too bad that he did a crappy job, but where does his race come into play? And, if you don’t like it, why don’t you do it yourself? Then you’d get exactly what you want. I don’t trust that someone else could, for example, clean my house exactly the way I would want it; that’s why _I_ do it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/43 "2004-08-14T11:25:20Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Now you’re just being irrational. It’s possible to give a perfectly adequate description of what happened without referring to the guy’s status as an immigrant. Unless that status was somehow the relevant to his incompetence as a gardener, which even the OP concedes is unlikely to be the case. Oh, bullshit. If you think that, then you’re a lousy story teller. Mark Twain could have written his novels without reference to race, and certainly without the racial dialect. He could have told the same story by giving only the necessary facts. But his stories are richer because he painted the whole picture. That’s how you get _context_. > [@](#): > > Speak for yourself. > > If a black guy cuts me off in traffic, i get pissed at him for being a bad driver, not for being black. If a gay guy talks on his cellphone during a movie, i get pissed at him for being an inconsiderate asshole, not for being gay. And if a Christian drops litter on the ground, i get pissed at him for being a lazy prick, not for being a Christian. I didn’t say that you get pissed off because he is a Christian; I said that you get pissed off about everything about him. You are pissed off at HIM — and his Christianity, his gayness, or his blackness is a part of HIM. It might not be necessary in every case to say, as you have done here, whether they are black, gay, or Christian, but in some cases, it can help to provide context for your story. In fact, if you were to mention littering without mentioning the Christianity, then your story would have a completely different meaning and flavor. A story about litter is one thing, but a story about picking up litter that says, “Be ye therefore good stewards of the earth”, is much more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/44 "2004-08-14T11:29:04Z")
> [@Amazon Floozy Goddess](#): > > It’s too bad that he did a crappy job, but where does his race come into play? His race? His fucking _race_? What race is he? I saw no mention of his fucking race. Gah, fucking dammit, you leftista conscience cops are so fucking infuriating! You fucking hypocrites! You laugh at jokes told by black comedians about white people, but then you bristle right on cue when anyone mentions someone’s race — and in this case, EVEN WHEN THEY DON’T. Damn. Get a fucking life. ---
**Author:** ![Kneepants\_Erasmus\_the\_Humanist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@Kneepants\_Erasmus\_the\_Humanist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kneepants_Erasmus_the_Humanist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/45 "2004-08-14T13:00:02Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > His race? His fucking _race_? What race is he? I saw no mention of his fucking race. Gah, fucking dammit, you leftista conscience cops are so fucking infuriating! You fucking hypocrites! You laugh at jokes told by black comedians about white people, but then you bristle right on cue when anyone mentions someone’s race — and in this case, EVEN WHEN THEY DON’T. Damn. Get a fucking life. Er…people still laugh at those jokes? Some black guy walks up and hits me. I would yell “you bastard”…not “you black bastard”. Different connotation, you see. Kick someone in the chalupas…very colorful. Yes, I think of Mark Twain when I read this. **Liberal** , sometimes you are uber-resonable(sorry don’t know how to do umlauts) and other times (like now, apparently) you seem to try your hardest to go the other way. I think I wanna change my username to **leftista conscience cop**. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/46 "2004-08-14T16:09:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > …I didn’t say that you get pissed off because he is a Christian; I said that you get pissed off about everything about him. You are pissed off at HIM — and his Christianity, his gayness, or his blackness is a part of HIM. It might not be necessary in every case to say, as you have done here, whether they are black, gay, or Christian, but in some cases, it can help to provide context for your story. In fact, if you were to mention littering without mentioning the Christianity, then your story would have a completely different meaning and flavor. A story about litter is one thing, but a story about picking up litter that says, “Be ye therefore good stewards of the earth”, is much more interesting. In the hypothetical examples that you mention here, you do have some points that stand. That being said, do you feel that this specifically applies to the OP? Can you explain how mentioning the gardener’s immigrant status enhanced or somehow added nuance to the OP? Also, I get that you are peeved at the perceived knee-jerk reactions that you see on the part of the left. I will grant that it tends to happen. One thing, however, that I would ask that you think about is that this reaction comes from a very sincere desire for a better world in which we treat each other with equality. I am given to understand that these are motivations that you respect. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/47 "2004-08-14T16:28:24Z")
I’m relieved to know that all the people back in Junior High that called me a beaner and made every proposition 186 joke they could think of weren’t being racist–they were just paying a verbal homage to Mark Twain by commenting on part of my _nationality_ (even though the “Mexican” part of my family has been American for 150 years or so). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/48 "2004-08-14T16:34:25Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > That being said, do you feel that this specifically applies to the OP? Can you explain how mentioning the gardener’s immigrant status enhanced or somehow added nuance to the OP? For me, it was the same reason that it was significant with respect to an Olympic athlete mentioned during the opening ceremony, although with opposite effect. America has a long and storied history of immigrants from everywhere — Europe, Africa, and Asia — coming into the country and living the American dream, making a successful life for themselves and their children. That was the context in which an athlete’s immigration status was mentioned last night. But here, I thought that the notion of a bumbling irresponsible immigrant lent the story an element of comedy merely by the nature of its exceptional status. It’s the nature of all slapstick, the hapless guy stumbling from one disaster to another. Suprise is one of the essential atomic units of humor. It is surprising, at least to me, to hear of someone making the trek all the way to America (physically and metaphysically) only to learn that they must have got here either by charity or sheer luck. > [@](#): > > One thing, however, that I would ask that you think about is that this reaction comes from a very sincere desire for a better world in which we treat each other with equality. I am given to understand that these are motivations that you respect. Well, I respect treating each other with respect. Nothing in life is equal, but a man is entitled to call his own shots with respect to his own life and his own mind. I do not believe that (not so) veiled accusations of racism — particular when it has to be made up out of whole cloth — show any sign of respect for the mind that related the story. There is no Mexican race. No Mexican ethnicity, even. Mexicans are everything from Hispanic to Caucasian to Indian to Negroid, and mixtures of those. Only someone with a cold-cocked knee would swoop into a thread, _even AFTER it has already been pointed out that there was no reference to race_, and _AFTER the OP had already made clear that she intended no racial reference_, to post a drive-by consisting solely of “It’s too bad that he did a crappy job, but where does his race come into play?”. It just riled my ass is all. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/49 "2004-08-14T16:38:51Z")
**Daft Girl** is Paris Hilton, right? That OP is a classic. What cunt. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/50 "2004-08-14T16:40:58Z")
oh man, why don’t I ever perview? insert an “a” between the last two words of my above post. In the second place, I’m pretty surprised at you, Chefguy, though not at Lib: apologizing for the blatant racism of the OP is well beneath what I expect of you. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/51 "2004-08-14T16:42:53Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > … There is no Mexican race. No Mexican ethnicity, even. Mexicans are everything from Hispanic to Caucasian to Indian to Negroid, and mixtures of those. Only someone with a cold-cocked knee would swoop into a thread, _even AFTER it has already been pointed out that there was no reference to race_, and _AFTER the OP had already made clear that she intended no racial reference_, to post a drive-by consisting solely of “It’s too bad that he did a crappy job, but where does his race come into play?”. It just riled my ass is all. Well, that I can understand. My take on the so-called Mexican race is that the term racism has somehow morphed into this all-inclusive umbrella for all forms of bigotry and prejudice. I think that people are using it as a telegraph term, and have lost sight of the fact that all of these things that I have mentioned are really different thing. That, in fact, racism is a sub-set of bigotry, and not a synonym for it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/52 "2004-08-14T16:48:50Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Well, that I can understand. My take on the so-called Mexican race is that the term racism has somehow morphed into this all-inclusive umbrella for all forms of bigotry and prejudice. I think that people are using it as a telegraph term, and have lost sight of the fact that all of these things that I have mentioned are really different thing. That, in fact, racism is a sub-set of bigotry, and not a synonym for it. I greatly appreciate your ability to communicate with me, Binarydrone. You seem to understand where I am, and you always greet me at my door to inform me. You’re a good guy. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/53 "2004-08-14T16:56:58Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > …In the second place, I’m pretty surprised at you, Chefguy, though not at Lib: apologizing for the blatant racism of the OP is well beneath what I expect of you. Well, I just re read his posts and I am reading them as defending the OP’s ire at the bad job done but confused about how the gardeners nationality is relevant. Did I miss something? I will say that the OP did strike me as a bit elitist, and teetering on the brink of bigotry (though I don’t know that I would use the term blatant). I don’t see that the mention of the gardener being Mexican adds some comedic slap stick to the post, as friend Liberal asserts, or that it really added anything valuable at all. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/54 "2004-08-14T17:01:32Z")
> [@a daft girl](#): > > It isnt strange for me to “expect” this of him - sprinkler maint. and repair actually falls under landscaping services, at least here it does - and when he was hired, agreed that he indeed did handle that sort of thing, which was no doubt part of why he was chosen. > > I did not interview, nor hire this man. The father in law did. > Which is why I plan to interview the new applicants myself. Staying out of the race issue scrum that’s underway it is somewhat unreasonable, and more than a teensy bit ignorant for you and your FIL to expect a typical leaf blower toting, “recent immigrant”, manual labor skill level type worker (gardener) to be able to repair an inground sprinkler system. These can be involved systems and there are sprinker companies with techs that specialize in these repairs. Few non- landscape company affiliated “recent immigrants” coming over the border are going to have a full set of landscaping skills other than the willingness to do grunt work. In case it escaped your notice relatively few Mexican vo-tech graduates are crossing the border and looking for lawn work. It’s mainly the poorly educated Mexican underclass. To reasonably expect one of the “leaf blower guys” to be able to repair an inground sprinkler system because he nooded and said “Si” when your FIL offered to hire him and pay him cash is borderline asinine. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/55 "2004-08-14T17:16:54Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > I don’t see that the mention of the gardener being Mexican adds some comedic slap stick to the post, as friend Liberal asserts, or that it really added anything valuable at all. Um, I didn’t say that. I said that the mention of his being an _immigrant_ made it funnier for me. Surprise and all. Effort it takes to get to America versus bumbling irresponsibility of blowing leaves into pool. Thought I explained rather thoroughly. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/56 "2004-08-14T17:36:55Z")
> [@](#): > > _Binarydrone_ > > Can you explain how mentioning the gardener’s immigrant status enhanced or somehow added nuance to the OP? The relative luxury in which I now post this message is a direct result of the actions of two very hard-working immigrants. One of my good friends is an immigrant who labors tirelessly to help me maintain my farm. His best friend is an immigrant who came here 20 years ago from Mexico and has worked his way into owning a home and a thriving lawn-care business. I can give you a dozen examples of the families that hold my farming community together, and they do it with little more than old-fashioned wisdom and hard work. If I were to write a story filled with glowing praise for how I’ve personally benefited from their indefatigability, should I omit all references to “immigrant”? Seriously, stop what you’re saying. Fucking fold your hands for a minute and get your wits together. “Immigrant” is not a dirty word. And when you shrink from it as if it were an insult, you make it racist. You make it pejorative. When you lower the word to the status of profanity, the burden of bigotry is on you. And now that I’ve previewed, Mark Twain really comes to mind: > [@](#): > > I am thankful that the good God created us all ignorant. I am glad that when we change His plans in this regard we have to do it at our own risk. For me, Liberal, here’s where the OP became really evocative: A guy pays two grand to a _Coyote_, yet can’t even keep an eight-dollar job! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/57 "2004-08-14T18:40:25Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > And now that I’ve previewed, Mark Twain really comes to mind:For me, Liberal, here’s where the OP became really evocative: A guy pays two grand to a _Coyote_, yet can’t even keep an eight-dollar job! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/58 "2004-08-14T18:56:51Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > And now that I’ve previewed, Mark Twain really comes to mind:For me, Liberal, here’s where the OP became really evocative: A guy pays two grand to a Coyote, yet can’t even keep an eight-dollar job! > > > [@Liberal](#): > > > > 😃 Because, being both Mexican and an immigrant, he _must_ be illegal. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/59 "2004-08-14T19:03:24Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Because, being both Mexican and an immigrant, he _must_ be illegal. :rolleyes: Well, that wasn’t why El Cid’s joke was funny, but since YOU bring it up: > [@](#): > > Mexico is the largest source country for unauthorized immigration to the United States. The estimated unauthorized resident population from Mexico increased from about 2.0 million in 1990 to 4.8 million in January 2000. Mexico’s share of the total unauthorized resident population increased from 58 percent in 1990 to 69 percent in 2000. [http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/2000ExecSumm.pdf](http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/2000ExecSumm.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595/60 "2004-08-14T19:16:37Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Well, that wasn’t why El Cid’s joke was funny El Cid’s joke wasn’t funny, but if it was, it’s humor would have depended on the assumption that the gentleman in question had, in fact, hired a coyote. A coyote is someone who smuggles illegal immigrants into the country, therefore, his joke assumed that the gardener was an illegal. > [@](#): > > but since YOU bring it up: > > > [@](#): > > > > Mexico is the largest source country for unauthorized immigration to the United States. The estimated unauthorized resident population from Mexico increased from about 2.0 million in 1990 to 4.8 million in January 2000. Mexico’s share of the total unauthorized resident population increased from 58 percent in 1990 to 69 percent in 2000. > > [http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/2000ExecSumm.pdf](http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/2000ExecSumm.pdf) So because most illegal immigrants are Mexicans, it’s safe to assume that a Mexican immigrant is an illegal? The percentage of illegals that are Mexicans isn’t relevant–what you really should be looking for is a cite that shows an overwhelming majority of Mexican immigrants are illegal (and even then you’d be on sketchy ground, because there would still exist plenty of legal Mexican immigrants). El Cid’s joke was on par with jokes about stupid blacks and drunken (American) Indians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gardener-needs-to-be-kicked-in-his-chalupas/259595.md?page=4)