# My General anti-US Sentiments and Peace in Bosnia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2002, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472 "2002-07-23T23:43:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/1 "2002-07-23T23:43:01Z")
Just thought I’d pipe in a few comments to some of the various trains of thought chugging around my head since I started posting at the SDMB a few months back. Because of this ICC thing, people have been talking a lot about the peace effort in Bosnia around here, and stated that without the support of the rest of the world, such effort would be impossible by the EU. With all due respect, that’s bull. We could do it easily with the support of only a couple of other nations on the Balkans, like Serbia, Macedonia and Montenegro (which we have). Honestly, we could do it without their support, too, but we probably wouldn’t, as it would involve too much EU money, which we need badly for our so-called lumbering subsidy system. Canada’s support would also be nice, and fortunately, we have that too. Aside from them, who else is going to help us? Mexico? Yeah, they’re great in a peace effort. The only thing the rest of America could do would be to frown thoughtfully at us (which they will), but they don’t have the will to not help us. They need our money too much to piss us off too badly (who do you think funds the War on Terrorism, and all those development programs in Central America?) Then there has been a lot of talk about other nations incarcerating and trying EU citizens against ICJ rulings. And I was wondering if we could use the Rome Treaty as legal grounds to forcefully protest in the UN to get them out? While I highly doubt this would be necessary (I think that pressure applied in the right locations will be enough to get back any citizens from those nations likely to hold him and that have ratified the ICJ jurisdiction). All that being said, if it came down to that, I would certainly be willing to slam some shoes on tables at the General Assembly. It’s a matter of asserting our sovereignty, and protecting our people. If your country were to become a police state, and a loved one were arrested for, say, practicing a forbidden religion, or criticizing the government, and you had the guts to peacefully resist, would you? I sure would. Thirdly, a lot of people seem to be mistakenly assuming that the only people likely to hold EU citizens for crimes committed on their territory, against an ICJ ruling would be third-world dictatorships that aren’t likely to care about the ICJ anyway. I don’t think this is the case. I think we’re just as likely to see Australia or the US ignore the ICJ and take legal action against one of our citizens that had committed a crime on their territory as anyone. The US in particular legitimately despises the EU (this isn’t to say every US citizen does, but the government and the intelligentsia certainly do). Given a chance to knock us down a peg or two, they’d gladly step up to the plate. When I think about it these might be offensive opinions to some, but I should ask you to not take that as grounds to beat me with a flame stick. It would be unfortunate if people would choose to attack me, rather than simply attack my argument, but if that’s the kind of game we play here, I can dig it. Hmm, so much left to say… where shall I start? I guess I’ll go in my favorite order, “No Particular”: Necessity of US support in the peace effort in Bosnia: Yeah! Let’s get back to that. I’m not sure if the EU can keep the Bosnians at peace single handedly, but I would guess that we could do it reasonably well with the help of a few key partners, or we could do it entirely alone, but would probably not, because of the costs involved. Does anybody really not believe that if we pooled all our resources, we could force Bosnia into peace, even without help? C’mon, our military, police and medical care power is an order of magnitude or two beyond theirs. It would be messy, but we _could_ do it, especially given all the anti-war sentiment in Bosnia these days. General anti-US sentiment: I’m not a big fan of the US. I don’t mind Americans, but America in general, bugs me. They perceive Europeans as peace loving, aloof, socialist intellectuals and cultural snobs who have no regard for anyone other than themselves. The Americans are largely reactionary conservatives, let-wild-dogs-run-jingoists and egomaniacs in general. They constantly let individual freedom get in the way of the common good, and frown upon those who don’t. They have an innate love of tyrants like Pinochet and Sharon, while painting Chirac as a bomb tooting, snail eating, garlic mouthed, cultural bully. Many parts of the US are blatantly anti-Muslim. When the Israeli Defense Force bulldozes houses on the Gaza strip, the American press calls it “policing”. When the Palestinian Authority tries to legitimately arm themselves for defense against the same actions they call it “arms smuggling”. Most Americans believe that the EU and the UN are jointly forming a Cabal with the aim for world domination, for crying out loud. The only part of the US that ever really supports us consistently is Costa Rica, which is why they escape the brunt of my ire. Now, most of the above might seem a little jumbled, but I figured I would at long last share this with you all. I’ve tried to keep it civil here, so please, don’t start calling me an idiot and condescendingly suggest that I might need to watch a little CNN or read more of what some people seem to think is the brilliance that permeates this message board. I have better things to do with my time than be insulted. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/2 "2002-07-23T23:48:56Z")
> [@](#): > > They perceive Europeans… The Americans are… ROFL! Did you really type those two sentences consecutively, or did you C&P some stuff before posting it? That was classic! ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/3 "2002-07-24T00:17:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sparc \* > **Now, most of the above might seem a little jumbled, but I figured I would at long last share this with you all. I’ve tried to keep it civil here, so please, don?t start calling me an idiot and condescendingly suggest that I might need to watch a little CNN or read more of what some people seem to think is the brilliance that permeates this message board. I have better things to do with my time than be insulted.** Well, I for one found your comments to be incredibly insightful. Usually, while pondering world affairs, I think about whether or not the United States should undertake some course of action by weighing the pros and cons of the action itself. However, many is the time that I stop and think to myself, “but wait – how will a random European twat feel about all this?” Now I know. Very handy! (Both condescending AND insulting! Yes!) ---
**Author:** ![LolaCocaCola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@LolaCocaCola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaCocaCola)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/4 "2002-07-24T00:25:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sparc \* > \*\*don’t start calling me an idiot and condescendingly suggest that I might need to watch a little CNN or read more of what some people seem to think is the brilliance that permeates this message board. I have better things to do with my time than be insulted. > > Sparc \*\* _Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwn_ :o ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/5 "2002-07-24T00:27:29Z")
By the way, what exactly was your point? Somewhere within the myriad of hypenated generalities I lost the thread of your argument. My best guesses: 1. You’re irritated by the idiocy of the Bush administration’s policy toward the UN and ICJ. So am I. 2. You think the U.S. sucks. If you’d just stuck to #1, this could have been an interesting discussion. Instead, by mixing these two points, you’ve lost any chance for a reasonable dialogue. Instead, you just look like a friggin’ moron. Way to go! Dipshit. ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/6 "2002-07-24T00:38:55Z")
Well, if you think you can police the Balkans you’re more than welcome to. I think I can safely say that most American’s aren’t particularly interested in keeping troops over there for an extended period of time. Or you can whine about us Bible-n-gun totin’ 'Merikans: whatever flips your skirt (behold the beauties of free choice). ---
**Author:** ![ArlanzaCharles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cc9497/32.png) [@ArlanzaCharles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArlanzaCharles)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/7 "2002-07-24T00:39:20Z")
Wait a minute am I being whooshed because you lost me on the part about Costa Rica being part of the US. There was a thread in GQ about US states and someone thought Costa Rica was part of the US which of course it isn’t. Also I don’t recall that much press about our hatred for President Chirac. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/8 "2002-07-24T00:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > The only part of the US that ever really supports us consistently is Costa Rica, which is why they escape the brunt of my ire. I take it that this comment is the cue that we’re supposed to ignore the rest as satire? ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/9 "2002-07-24T00:43:11Z")
Sparc, stop reading The Guardian for a few weeks - you’ll feel much better. ---
**Author:** ![ArlanzaCharles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cc9497/32.png) [@ArlanzaCharles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArlanzaCharles)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/10 "2002-07-24T00:50:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*I take it that this comment is the cue that we’re supposed to ignore the rest as satire? \*\* :smack: No it’s just I’m an idiot and can’t tell my ass from my elbow (really). Obviously Sparc is an idiot too. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/11 "2002-07-24T00:54:06Z")
Costa Rica, Puerto Rico, Canada; it’s so easy to mix those states up, all tucked away next to California and Vermont … **Sparc** , I think I understand your sentiment (I’m conditioning that, there, hoping not to sound condescending) and I agree with a bunch of it. And you’re just venting, sure, but the generalizations under your “General Anti-U.S. Sentiment” section rankled me. I think Sharon is a thug. Similarly, I think Chirac is a cheese-eating surrender monkey. However, I doubt (even though it’s always amusing to propose) that a majority of Americans think the EU and UN are in anti-US cahoots. The black helicopters really aren’t coming after us, and the UN isn’t going to impose a Mark of the Beast on us. The American nutballs are loud, vocal, but thankfully not omnipresent. Rant away, m’good man, and I’ll support you where it’s warranted. Or perhaps it was an incredible bit of satire and the Costa Rica comment whooshed right by me, too. But don’t blame me; I voted for Kodos. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/12 "2002-07-24T01:07:09Z")
[Whoooosh](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2286911#post2286911) ---
**Author:** ![ArlanzaCharles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cc9497/32.png) [@ArlanzaCharles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArlanzaCharles)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/13 "2002-07-24T01:12:59Z")
Whoo hoo I’m not an idiot (falls out of chair) In your face space coyote!!! ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/14 "2002-07-24T01:13:24Z")
Wait a minute… I go away from this thread for ten minutes and when I come back everyone is calling me an idiot and stuff. All I was trying to do was make my point clear. Wasn’t the question if we could handle Bosnia on our own? Because that’s what I thought. I think that the International Court of Justice and my anti-US sentiments might be relevant in that context. I mean c’mon how many ambulances do we need in Bosnia? So the rest of the world gets a little pissed off because we have all the peace keeping might? Does that mean we shouldn’t use it? Costa Rica isn’t part of the US? When did that happen? You guys obviously think you’re all a bunch of smarty-pants because you post on some message board with the words Straight and Dope in it… wow you’re all really over sensitive as well. I mean if you want me to not post my anti-US sentiments, just tell me, but they’re right anyway, just so you know. Sparc [size=1]Manhattan, my words CPed the framework though…and thx btw [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/15 "2002-07-24T01:13:39Z")
Peace in the Balkans? Yeesh, they don’t call it the “powder keg of Europe” for nothing! ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/16 "2002-07-24T01:28:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Giraffe_ > Instead, by mixing these two points, you’ve lost any chance for a reasonable dialogue. Instead, you just look like a friggin’ moron. Way to go! Dipshit. OK I get it, that’s the level you guys keep around here. I dig and I can play that game as well, but I thought that we were supposed to have a reasonable debate. So maybe my comments about the ICJ were a little out of place and I should have stuck to Bosnia - but you do see the connection right? So how about we stop the name-calling and get back to the point of all this? You see, as I said it’s not the Americans as such that bother me, it’s America and all the things I for one know the Americans stand for that are so obviously un-European that bug me. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/17 "2002-07-24T01:33:55Z")
> [@](#): > > They constantly let individual freedom get in the way of the common good, and frown upon those who don’t. More like viewing individual freedom _as_ the common good, and being extremely distrustful of those who don’t. > [@](#): > > They have an innate love of tyrants like Pinochet and Sharon, while painting Chirac as a bomb tooting, snail eating, garlic mouthed, cultural bully. 😕 As a French-American, I’m typically hyper-sensitive to criticisms of France, but this one leaves me baffled. Care to elaborate? > [@](#): > > The Americans are largely reactionary conservatives, let-wild-dogs-run-jingoists and egomaniacs in general… Most Americans believe that the EU and the UN are jointly forming a Cabal with the aim for world domination… I have better things to do with my time than be insulted. No you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/18 "2002-07-24T01:53:01Z")
Slowly, slowly catchy newbie monkey… ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/19 "2002-07-24T02:11:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sparc \* > \*\*Just thought I’d pipe in a few comments to some of the various trains of thought chugging around my head since I started posting at the SDMB a few months back. \*\* \< obligatory insult \> Perhaps if you loaded some weighty ideas or heavy facts in those trains of thoughts, we wouldn’t be looking at such a wreck of a post \ \*\* > [@](#): > > With all due respect, that’s bull. We could do it easily with the support of only a couple of other nations on the Balkans, like Serbia, Macedonia and Montenegro (which we have). Honestly, we could do it without their support, too, but we probably wouldn’t, as it would involve too much EU money, which we need badly for our so-called lumbering subsidy system. Canada’s support would also be nice, and fortunately, we have that too. Aside from them, who else is going to help us? Mexico? Yeah, they’re great in a peace effort. > \*\* Spiff! We agree! Do it yourself! A large number of Americans would be _thrilled_! We applaud your efforts! Hell! I’ve got an even _better_ idea: You, personally, do it yourself. I’ll send you a gun. You go conquer Bosnia. Write when you’re done. You can go liberate Communist China next! \*\* > [@](#): > > I’m not a big fan of the US. I don’t mind Americans, but America in general, bugs me.\*\* Did you know I have the power to speak for every single American? I do! We, en masse, reply: “So fucking what?” \*\* > [@](#): > > They constantly let individual freedom get in the way of the common good, and frown upon those who don’t. They have an innate love of tyrants… \*\* Bwah-ha-ha! Yeah…most “tyrants” are big on “individual freedom” :: snort :: \*\* > [@](#): > > When the Palestinian Authority tries to legitimately arm themselves for defense against the same actions they call it “arms smuggling”. \*\* A red cresent ambulance full of explosives isn’t “legitimately arming” one’s self. \*\* > [@](#): > > The only part of the US that ever really supports us consistently is Costa Rica, which is why they escape the brunt of my ire. \*\* Again I speak for EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN when I say the thought of your ire has us curled up under our blankies sucking our thumbs. A _EUROPEAN_ PINHEAD DOESN’T LIKE US! This is the \*single greatest diplomatic crisis since Arch-Duke Ferdinand was assissinated! \*\* > [@](#): > > Now, most of the above might seem a little jumbled, \*\* NO! How could you say that! :eek: Why this is the most logical, insightful discourse since Descartes! \*\* > [@](#): > > so please, don’t start calling me an idiot and condescendingly suggest that I might need to watch a little CNN or read more of what some people seem to think is the brilliance that permeates this message board. I have better things to do with my time than be insulted. \*\* Suggest to read up and gain some facts beyond your jingoistic gibberings? Heaven forfend! Fenris, openly weeping that a European Pinhead doesn’t wuv us. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472/20 "2002-07-24T02:29:32Z")
**Fenris** , you buttmonkey! It’s Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Not Arch-Duke. Dammit!!! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-general-anti-us-sentiments-and-peace-in-bosnia/120472.md?page=2)