# My GF likes “bad boys”--what's up with that?it' **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 10, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720 "2009-12-10T13:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/41 "2009-12-10T21:50:01Z")
I agree with **B. Serum**. This line: > [@](#): > > She doesn’t resent it openly, but I don’t get a lot of “Thank you”s for such things as working around her somewhat chaotic work-schedule, or being open to last-minute changes in plans, or other stuff like that, stuff where I could easily assert contrary views or display annoyance but instead find ways to work things out without undue conflicts. She’s made semi-jokes about “When will we have our first fight?” and I respond, “I hope, never,” but I sometimes think she wants to have a fight about something, just for the sheer pleasure of fighting. just makes you sound pathetic and weak, not “nice”. ---
**Author:** ![ShelliBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ShelliBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShelliBean)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/42 "2009-12-10T21:51:11Z")
That does make so much sense. I didn’t go from “bad boy” to “follower” but switched to a “leader” - and \*\*tdn \*\*is again probably correct about what she is telling you about how to treat her. Hmmmm, tdn, it’s like you read my mind. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/43 "2009-12-10T21:57:36Z")
> [@ShelliBean](#): > > Hmmmm, tdn, it’s like you read my mind. Sure, but I wasn’t crazy about chapter six. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/44 "2009-12-10T22:02:29Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Why not try nutting up a little and see if she responds? It sounds like you have little to lose at this point. Any points he’d score by doing this would only last until he returns to his normal tendencies and she starts getting turned off again. This ship has sailed. There is no road map that he could follow to make her suddenly want him, as she has already diagnosed him as being Not Her Type. In fact, if he were to suddenly start behaving in the manner that he _thinks_ she wants, that would probably turn her off more because 1) realistically there’s way he could pull this off naturally and 2) if she were to figure out that he’s behaving differently simply to please her, she’ll see him as being extra desperate and lame. Best to throw this fish back, I say. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/45 "2009-12-10T23:18:48Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Excellent post. But you forgot stimulate her heart. Of course! :smack: Wasn’t meant to be a comprehensive list but That was a kind of a boneheaded omission. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/46 "2009-12-10T23:41:42Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > He looks better [on this page](http://www.johndesalvo.com/home.htm). Still looks like he bats for the other team though. > > Enjoy, > Steven I had no idea that romance-novel-cover guys were actual people with actual lives. I thought they were drawn in digital programs, modeled after Frank Frazetta illustrations half a century old. That guy looks a lot like Billy “Enough” Campbell. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/47 "2009-12-10T23:44:41Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I had no idea that romance-novel-cover guys were actual people with actual lives. I thought they were drawn in digital programs, modeled after Frank Frazetta illustrations half a century old. What, you’ve never heard of [Fabio](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabio_Lanzoni)? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/48 "2009-12-10T23:54:22Z")
There is much to be learned, IMO, about how to be a strong, self-fulfilled, protective, independent and in-charge-but-loving type of guy by watching the Gene Simmons and Steven Seagal reality shows. (And in Simmons’ case at least, a humorous guy too.) People who aren’t their family members, co-workers and friends tend to think they’re jerks (;)), but they clearly enjoy a great deal of respect, admiration and love from the people who are close to them. It’s been my observation that “nice guys” tend to put a great deal of importance on what people think of them and they behave in ways that they hope will cause people to like them, whereas guys like Simmons and Seagal just do their own thing and let the chips fall where they may with how people think of them. Each of these guys, by virtue of the way they live, are in a position to give their women what they really want and need, yet they still live their lives in a way that is interesting and fulfilling to them personally rather than by putting their main focus on pleasing their mates. It’s kind of like with money. Money is a by-product of accomplishment. People who simply chase after money rarely catch up to it because they haven’t put in the time and effort to become good enough at something in order to make much of it. Love is the same way: it’s a by-product of the kind of person you are and the way you live your life. If you put your main focus on finding love it will always slip through your hands because you look dull and desperate and like that’s all you have to offer. You have to be strong and capable and independent and involved in living your own life, and by doing that you will make yourself much more interesting and appealing as a mate. Love will then very natually (and genuinely) flow from that. But keep in mind that I’m talking about a certain kind of woman here – the type that are attracted to bad boys and/or manly men. There are other women who are put off by this type of guy – either because they feel incapable of keeping him interested themselves, or because they prefer a more 50/50 type of relationship. But it’s been my experience that most women, when confronted with this type of guy, become very, very interested indeed. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/49 "2009-12-11T13:46:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > This ship has sailed. Maybe, maybe not. Change usually doesn’t happen overnight. But it seems to me that she’s giving him the roadmap because she wants him to change. He’s got nothing to lose by at least trying. If he doesn’t, he’ll fail anyway. But either way, I hope he learns something from this. That’s win/win to me. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/50 "2009-12-11T15:16:30Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Excellent post. But you forgot stimulate her heart. Wait a minute…are you saying that if the other things are stimulated, her heart won’t be??? This trying to stimulate her heart is what got the OP in the jam that he’s in!!! hh ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/51 "2009-12-11T15:27:33Z")
Since I work for a bunch of cardiac surgeons, my view on that is probably a little skewed. But I’m bringing a defibrillator on my next date, just in case. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/52 "2009-12-11T15:55:21Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > He’s got nothing to lose by at least trying. I disagree. The guy is in his 50’s and clearly wants a workable relationship with a person who loves him. If he isn’t naturally an “alpha male leader”, any attempt to play one is doomed from the start. He needs to invest in a new woman. In the “I’m sick of beauty” thread, I mentioned a guy who I was pseudo-dating (much like the OP is doing) who explained one day (apropos of nothing…it was not like I was interested in being his GF anyway) why I wasn’t his type. He’s clearly into women who dress like storefront mannequins and wear their hair in high-maintenance styles, with makeup and jewlery and $200 handbags. That’s his idea of beauty and feminine sophistication. But my style is more subdued and understated. I’m not exactly a jeans and T-shirt woman, but I’m not into dolling myself up 24/7. At 5’9, I don’t like how tall I feel in heels, and I prefer keeping my hair in its natural state (i.e. curly) and not artificially straightened. And I can’t fathom paying more than $40 bucks for a purse, let alone $200. Assuming I wanted to be with this guy, would it be advisable for me to start dressing like a Barbie doll to hook him? Of course not. He has his preferences and I have mine. Let him chase after the glamour girls. I will chase after the men who think I’m sexy as is. It’s not like **prr** is a 20 year-old still trying to sort out his identity and personality. Who he is, is who he is. Maybe his problem is that he’s a “Nice Guy” and maybe its not. But regardless, if he changes himself, it shouldn’t be with the objective of attracting a woman who has already ruled him out as a real boyfriend, because it would be setting himself for failure and resentment. So he has plenty to lose. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/53 "2009-12-11T16:10:22Z")
I have to disagree with that, simply because 50 is in sight for me, and I’m changing a lot about myself. Then again I’m not trying to re-win over someone I’m losing, I’m meeting new women all the time. And having a freakin’ blast with it. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/54 "2009-12-11T16:14:38Z")
> [@Necros](#): > > I agree with **B. Serum**. This line: > … > just makes you sound pathetic and weak, not “nice”. I can see how some would view it that way, but to me, it simply sounds like he’s being considerate and accommodating. I don’t get the sense that he’s turning himself into a doormat and sacrificing all of his desires for her sake. Maybe he is being pathetic and weak, but I think it would be unfair to draw that conclusion based on his words. Therein lies one big problem with these diatribes against “nice guys,” IMO. Far too often, people look at a guy who’s willing to make sacrifices for a woman and conclude that he lacks a backbone. I think that’s just plain unfair. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/55 "2009-12-11T16:16:59Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Then again I’m not trying to re-win over someone I’m losing, I’m meeting new women all the time. And that’s the key. Every new woman you come in contact with is an impressionable blank slate. **prr’s** current quasi-GF already has her mind made up about him. More time spent with her is less time spent with someone else. In my experience, once a woman has decided what box to put you in, that’s the box where you stay. And in those rare instances in which she changes her mind and puts you in a new box, the odds of it working out are slim to none. Because eventually she will feel like she’s settling. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/56 "2009-12-11T16:19:07Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > There are some women who are just attracted to jerks. It’s very refreshing to hear a woman admit this. I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve heard men and women say, “Oh, no! Women don’t want jerks; they just want men who are confident, and they know confidence when they see it.” As one of my closest female friends says though, that’s bull. Some women do genuinely go for the jerks. The jerks might not necessarily be confident (in fact, I think they often aren’t), but they exude this illusion that is often mistaken for true confidence. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/57 "2009-12-11T16:23:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And that’s the key. Yes, and it’s a huge difference. I’m not changing myself to please a woman, I’m doing it to please me. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/58 "2009-12-11T18:26:14Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > It’s very refreshing to hear a woman admit this. I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve heard men and women say, “Oh, no! Women don’t want jerks; they just want men who are confident, and they know confidence when they see it.” As one of my closest female friends says though, that’s bull. Some women do genuinely go for the jerks. The jerks might not necessarily be confident (in fact, I think they often aren’t), but they exude this illusion that is often mistaken for true confidence. Of course there are _some_ women who like jerks. The “oh no, women want confident men” comes in response to the assertions that women \*in general \*want jerks. I think we’ve gotten conditioned to giving that response regardless because we’ve heard the “women don’t like me because I’m a nice guy” thing way way WAY too many times. I think it would be more accurate to say that most women like confident men, and that there is a small minority of women that do indeed seek out jerks due to their own psychological problems. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/59 "2009-12-11T19:08:02Z")
I’d say that a small _but significant_ number of women go for the jerks. That’s precisely why this phenomenon is so noticeable. Do these women have “psychological problems”? I think that depends on what you mean by the term. There is a broad spectrum between being complete emotional health and being outright neurotic. Even people who are otherwise well adjusted can have areas of emotional weakness. That’s why people who seem to have their act together in many ways can find themselves drawn to unsavory men. As another female friend of mine said, “I don’t know why I like the wrong kinds of guys. I just can’t help it!” ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720/60 "2009-12-11T19:21:05Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > As another female friend of mine said, “I don’t know why I like the wrong kinds of guys. I just can’t help it!” As I’m sure others have said in this thread\*, this can be reversed. One has to ask why a significant number of men are drawn to the ‘wrong kinds’ of women. The weak kind of woman that goes for bad boys. Why aren’t these men going after women that are emotionally mature enough to go for the good guys? As for me, I have always liked the so-called bad boy. They are exciting. \*I am working and didn’t actually read the thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-gf-likes-bad-boys-whats-up-with-that-it/520720.md?page=4)